Is it time to flip flop on Flip?

[nate33]

It's not fair to use +/- ratings to evaluate coaching decisions, except perhaps in the 4th quarter after you've had a chance to look at the matchups. First of all, there's too much "noise" in a one-game (or half-game) sample size for the +/- data to have much meaning. Secondly, making snap judgments like that would only destroy a player's confidence. For example, how is Flip supposed to know that Arenas was destined for a lousy +/- rating? Arenas was only -4 after his first 15 minutes of action.

I continue to think that starting Oberto is the right move. I don't want to see a front court combination of Oberto/McGee at any time because both are completely useless in the half court offense and neither have the combination of length and defensive basketball IQ that Haywood and Blatche have. So the only way to get some balance is to start Oberto and bring Blatche off the bench. That way, either Blatche or Haywood are in the game at all times. What matters is that Flip is making sure that they both get plenty of minutes. Haywood is averaging 33 minutes. Blatche, 28. And both would average a bit more if it weren't for the garbage time at the end of the NJ and Atlanta games.

I don't really have much complaint about the backcourt rotations either. Young has totally sucked yet Flip keeps giving him a chance. At some point, you gotta blame Young, not Flip. Stevenson only plays so much because nobody besides Arenas and Foye can ball.

Seriously, you really have to try hard to find stuff to complain about with the rotations. Maybe, just maybe, McGee could take a few more of Oberto's minutes. And I wouldn't mind if DMac got a shot in Stevenson's role. But I don't think those tweaks would have made any difference with our record.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

nate, Blatche should be playing more than 28 and Butler should be playing less than 35.

If Oberto and Stevenson are both averaging 19 minutes, there's no way in hell McGee should be getting 8 minutes and McGuire 3.

McGee should take a few of Oberto's minutes? Damn right he should! If he got just 8 of them, Javale would double his own minutes and I'd be happy. Javale should be on the court when Foye is in the game either at SG or PG because Randy gets him the ball. Gil hasn't as far as I've seen.

DMac playing about 10 and Stevenson 11 or 12 would make sense to me. DMac could also get 2 or 3 of Caron's minutes, particularly with Miller out.

Flip has no right to call out effort without looking in the mirror first.

[80sballboy]

None of this matters if you don't get effort. That's on the players for the most part. This isn't college where the coach has to get his team up 32 times a year. This is the NBA where guys are getting paid to play 100%. It also shows you the lack of leadership on this team when Jamison is out. It's unreal that the guy has to go on a tirade last night after the game when nobody else will step up. We know Gil won't, but how about Wood? Caron?

I'm the biggest second-guesser in the world and while Oberto starting is a little mystifying as the team continues to get off to a slow start, it's not like Dray has been playing like he deserves to start the last three games. The only concern I had was throwing Miller back out there when he was injured and it sounds like it's more on the wonderful medical staff, who Flip was supposed to trust, than on Saunders.

[Rafael122]

This team just looks sluggish. Arenas is dribbling between his legs as he's driving. Really? Get the ball, penetrate, get fouled...there you go. Keep doing it all game. Wade does it, why can't Arenas? Seems to me this team is trying to do too much. Just go out and play basketball. This also goes to show how badly we miss Jamison, b/c our offensive woes wouldn't be as big without him there. Really goes to show how valuable he is to this team, as is Miller. These are our "glue guys."

[Silvie Lysandra]

If we can cover Jamison's defensive deficiencies, then I don't mind having him around. I have more confidence that we can though.

[TAI8]

It's WAY too early to think about this...I would give them 25 games to work things out and then make my evaluation from there..

[Kanyewest]

Realistically, Flip has at least a year to get things under control. However, it's not surprising that this team hasn't come out of the gates like 2005-06 Pistons who were a much better team than we are; sure you could argue that the Wizards have more talent. But that Detroit team was an ELITE defensive team that won a title and went to two straight NBA finals before Flip even got there. Remember, it took Flip a bunch of years to get past the first round with Minnesotta and KG. And I believe Flip's teams that did well in the postseason for the most part had good health (aside from Sam Cassell's injury in the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Flip's record as Wizard coach is 2-5.

Washington is averaging 95.6 and giving up 99.1.

Four straight games the Wizards have scored 90 or less points.

Flip starts Oberto. Stevenson is the first off the bench.

Young and McGee play less than 7 minutes a game.

Remaining November games: at Miami, vs Detroit, vs Cleveland, at OKC, at San Antonio, vs Philadelphia, at Miami, vs Charlotte.

I believe the Wizards might be 5-10 or worse by December 1st.

Wizard board faithful say it's the players.

I say it's Flip.

[closg00]

Flip's record as Wizard coach is 2-5.

Washington is averaging 95.6 and giving up 99.1.

Four straight games the Wizards have scored 90 or less points.

Flip starts Oberto. Stevenson is the first off the bench.

Young and McGee play less than 7 minutes a game.

Remaining November games: at Miami, vs Detroit, vs Cleveland, at OKC, at San Antonia, vs Philadelphia, at Miami, vs Charlotte.

I believe the Wizards might be 5-10 or worse by December 1st.

Wizard board faithful say it's the players.

I say it's Flip.

CCJ, I am firmly behind you %100 on this.

[mohammed10]

Flip's record as Wizard coach is 2-5.

Washington is averaging 95.6 and giving up 99.1.

Four straight games the Wizards have scored 90 or less points.

Flip starts Oberto. Stevenson is the first off the bench.

Young and McGee play less than 7 minutes a game.

Remaining November games: at Miami, vs Detroit, vs Cleveland, at OKC, at San Antonia, vs Philadelphia, at Miami, vs Charlotte.

I believe the Wizards might be 5-10 or worse by December 1st.

Wizard board faithful say it's the players.

I say it's Flip.

CCJ, I am firmly behind you %100 on this.

+2

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's not fair to use +/- ratings to evaluate coaching decisions, except perhaps in the 4th quarter after you've had a chance to look at the matchups. First of all, there's too much "noise" in a one-game (or half-game) sample size for the +/- data to have much meaning. Secondly, making snap judgments like that would only destroy a player's confidence. For example, how is Flip supposed to know that Arenas was destined for a lousy +/- rating? Arenas was only -4 after his first 15 minutes of action.

I continue to think that starting Oberto is the right move. I don't want to see a front court combination of Oberto/McGee at any time because both are completely useless in the half court offense and neither have the combination of length and defensive basketball IQ that Haywood and Blatche have. So the only way to get some balance is to start Oberto and bring Blatche off the bench. That way, either Blatche or Haywood are in the game at all times. What matters is that Flip is making sure that they both get plenty of minutes. Haywood is averaging 33 minutes. Blatche, 28. And both would average a bit more if it weren't for the garbage time at the end of the NJ and Atlanta games.

I don't really have much complaint about the backcourt rotations either. Young has totally sucked yet Flip keeps giving him a chance. At some point, you gotta blame Young, not Flip. Stevenson only plays so much because nobody besides Arenas and Foye can ball.

Seriously, you really have to try hard to find stuff to complain about with the rotations. Maybe, just maybe, McGee could take a few more of Oberto's minutes. And I wouldn't mind if DMac got a shot in Stevenson's role. But I don't think those tweaks would have made any difference with our record.

The rotations in the fourth were clearly bad, nate.

http://www.nba.com/games/20091108/PHXWA ... lay.html#4

Butler more than any other player is killing the Wizards right now, nate. Flip played him 41:26.

Washington trailed Phoexix 77-89 in the fourth. Flip subbed out Butler and in McGuire. The Wizards scored 6 straight to get to 83-89. McGuire got a rebound and Haywood got fouled while shooting with the Wizards able to get to within 4.

Wihout Butler.

Haywood missed both. At the other end Frye hit a 3. Wizards down 92-83, a 5 point swing. Gil misses a jumper, Foye misses a three. Stoudemire gets a slam at the other end.

What does Flip do?

Subs out BLATCHE and subs in BUTLER????

Say what you will, I've got this to say: Flip prefers the veterans and is very critical of the young guys. He plays Caron too many minutes and is part if not most of the problem.

Lack of coaching is as much as lack of effort the problem.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To further expound on my last post, I think it sends a bad message subbing out Blatche after a dunk by Stoudemire when Andray's the one carrying the damn team.

Flip Saunders is doing all kinds of stuff I can't stand, and when THIS TEAM scores 90 points or less 4 games in a row I'm calling out the coach.

[dandridge 10]

To further expound on my last post, I think it sends a bad message subbing out Blatche after a dunk by Stoudemire when Andray's the one carrying the damn team.

Flip Saunders is doing all kinds of stuff I can't stand, and when THIS TEAM scores 90 points or less 4 games in a row I'm calling out the coach.

CCJ, maybe if you put another 50 posts on this board on how the coach is our biggest problem, people just might start to believe you. Geez, EJ, ET, and Flip all couldn't cut coaching the Wizards...maybe they should hire you since you got it all figured out.

[Cramer]

Jesus, this board is nothing if not predictable.

[nate33]

The rotations in the fourth were clearly bad, nate.

http://www.nba.com/games/20091108/PHXWA ... lay.html#4

Butler more than any other playeris killing the Wizards right now, nate. Flip played him 41:26.

Washington trailed Phoexix 77-89 in the fourth. Flip subbed out Butler and in McGuire. The Wizards scored 6 straight to get to 83-89. McGuire got a rebound and Haywood got fouled while shooting with the Wizards able to get to within 4.

Wihout Butler.

Haywood missed both. At the other end Frye hit a 3. Wizards down 92-83, a 5 point swing. Gil misses a jumper, Foye misses a three. Stoudemire gets a slam at the other end.

What does Flip do?

Subs out BLATCHE and subs in BUTLER???

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that Blatche had played the last 15 consecutive minutes of the game.

Butler played 41 minutes because we don't have another decent SF on the roster. McGuire was nice in spot minutes at the end of the game, but let's face it, he's not going to help our offensive woes.

Let it go CCJ. I know you're frustrated. But sometimes, the players just suck and the team just sucks. It's not always a problem with the coaching. There was no magical formula that would have turned today's loss into a win. We played fairly well. Phoenix played better. They're a 5-1 team and we're riddled with injuries. It's not all that surprising.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Butler played 41:26 because Flip believes in him and is ignoring the fact that the team often does better with him off the court.

They scored 123 without Caron. Blatche had it going but Flip sent him to the bench in the fourth.

I'm not letting anything go.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Jesus, this board is nothing if not predictable.

Mencken was predictably counter-culture.

The board is predictable!

The trend is towards conservatism. EG and his moves get the benefit of a doubt. All the time.

Players and their ability or lack thereof are always called out first. Young players are always lazy, clueless, of bad character.

First criticism of coach and management is always shot down (closq, mo, I'm not talking about you).

This time last season, those who questioned Tapscott got flamed. The players sucked.

This team has a healthy Arenas and a healthy Haywood and I KNOW THEY DON"T SUCK.

I'm calling out all things Flip til I see otherwise.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The rotations in the fourth were clearly bad, nate.

http://www.nba.com/games/20091108/PHXWA ... lay.html#4

Butler more than any other playeris killing the Wizards right now, nate. Flip played him 41:26.

Washington trailed Phoexix 77-89 in the fourth. Flip subbed out Butler and in McGuire. The Wizards scored 6 straight to get to 83-89. McGuire got a rebound and Haywood got fouled while shooting with the Wizards able to get to within 4.

Wihout Butler.

Haywood missed both. At the other end Frye hit a 3. Wizards down 92-83, a 5 point swing. Gil misses a jumper, Foye misses a three. Stoudemire gets a slam at the other end.

What does Flip do?

Subs out BLATCHE and subs in BUTLER???

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that Blatche had played the last 15 consecutive minutes of the game.
Butler played 41 minutes because we don't have another decent SF on the roster. McGuire was nice in spot minutes at the end of the game, but let's face it, he's not going to help our offensive woes.

Let it go CCJ. I know you're frustrated. But sometimes, the players just suck and the team just sucks. It's not always a problem with the coaching. There was no magical formula that would have turned today's loss into a win. We played fairly well. Phoenix played better. They're a 5-1 team and we're riddled with injuries. It's not all that surprising.

nate, it happened after a Stoudemire dunk and Flip came in with a small.

It was small ball and taking out the young guy when Butler was part of the problem in the first place.

Small ball. Play the vets with Oberto this year's Songaila. Jump shots are A okay. Always humiliate a young player after a mistake and let McGee and Young fester on the bench. Ignore the trend of scoring less than 90 and losing by double digits, but do keep the short bench and the same old vets.

This season's every bit as sucky as last, so far.

[Dat2U]

Jesus, this board is nothing if not predictable.

Oh please! You've got one person here talking about Flip. I don't think that qualifies as the entire "board".

Personally, I'm not terribly entralled with Flip. He wasn't my first choice and I haven't liked all of his moves, but I haven't criticized him one iota yet. Just like I did with Eddie Jordan, I'll give him a year to get adjusted but come playoff time and next year I'll be on his ass like flies on shyt.

Also, our 2-5 record isn't all Flip's making. You have to look at our players and the guy that brought these players in, EG. That's were I'm focusing any criticism right now. EG & our roster.

Of course, I'd like to see McGee get some run against Phx but I like the fact McGee gets 10-12 minutes a night. That's good for him right now.

Although I don't like Oberto starting either, I understand the desire to keep Blatche on the bench. So when Jamison comes back, Blatche's role wouldn't have to change.

My only real real gripe would be DeSuck getting burn but its not like Flip has many options. It's not Flip's fault Nick Young doesn't have clue and never will. And we all know what Mike James brings to the table. Sure, I'd like to see more Dom, but its not like he'd be an incredible improvement either.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Jesus, this board is nothing if not predictable.

Oh please! You've got one person here talking about Flip. I don't think that qualifies as the entire "board".

Personally, I'm not terribly entralled with Flip. He wasn't my first choice and I haven't liked all of his moves, but I haven't criticized him one iota yet. Just like I did with Eddie Jordan, I'll give him a year to get adjusted but come playoff time and next year I'll be on his ass like flies on shyt.
Also, our 2-5 record isn't all Flip's making. You have to look at our players and the guy that brought these players in, EG. That's were I'm focusing any criticism right now. EG & our roster.

Of course, I'd like to see McGee get some run against Phx but I like the fact McGee gets 10-12 minutes a night. That's good for him right now.

Although I don't like Oberto starting either, I understand the desire to keep Blatche on the bench. So when Jamison comes back, Blatche's role wouldn't have to change.

My only real real gripe would be DeSuck getting burn but its not like Flip has many options. It's not Flip's fault Nick Young doesn't have clue and never will. And we all know what Mike James brings to the table. Sure, I'd like to see more Dom, but its not like he'd be an incredible improvement either.

The single reason I'm on Flip is he lit into the team's effort and I think the problem is the people he has chosen to play. Instead of 2-5 this team could be 4-3.

He seems like a guy that will bust the chops of the young guys. I don't like that. (That's two reasons, sorry).