How do you fix this team?

[Illuminaire]

If we had competent managment, they would have realized that if you take on a project with the mentality of a point or shooting guard, you better get a high respected bigman coach if you plan on changing his instincts so that he is useful to your team since you wasted a draft pick on him. That was the mindset of wizards management. hopefully leonsis sees this.

WizD, I don't normally agree with your "get a big man coach!" arguments, but I think you make a good point about McGee's psychology.

The only problem is, he might not have the historical awareness to respect even a big name coach. He might put more stock in someone who's great at Madden or CoD than a legendary NBA big man.

[hands11]

McGee only seems to be more of a PF than a Center because he refuses to embrace the fundamental tenets of the center position. He wants to be a flashy, Amare-style playmaker, but he lacks the ability to actually do so.

The only reason McGee is not an amazing "true center" is because he doesn't want to be. With his height and mobility, he could be a defensive *machine*, a weapon of fear, terror and destruction. The coach sees that, we see that... but he doesn't see that.

I'm sorry, but a player's own ignorance is not a good reason to change his position.

I can see some of the things that CCJ sees re McGee as PF, but 1) he doesn't have a jump shot, and 2) the same things that hurt him at C would hurt him at PF. He'd still be out of position on offense and defense, looking for the block or the alley-oop rather than setting solid picks and defending floor space. If he develops a jump shot, then I could look see the experiment, but with his length and leap, he still seems perfect center material. If he ever gets it, that is.

McGee at PF right now isn't just about McGee at PF, it's about him not being at starting center so Seraphin and Dray can hold it down. The team needs more power down there. Maybe in the future, say next year, he will add more strength, a go to shot like a hook which Seraphin is already showing us after only 3/4 of a year. Seraphin plays like a center and he has the strength to do it.

All those numbers CCJ posted about McGee are suspect to me because, who has been playing center in his absense ? Armstrong ? Yi ? And who do they get to play at PF when he is out since Dray plays mostly with McGee? Best we have seen is probably a healthy Lewis with Dray sometimes.

I have long been posting that I'm not sure McGee sees himself as a center. At least not his first 2.5 years. That is the biggest problem. I saw his practice videos over the summer and I have seen Seraphins practice vidoes. Seraphin practices baby hooks around the hoop. McGee was practicing his jump shot.

[hands11]

McGee can slash and finish pretty well. Sometimes amazingly well. He can actually drive around other bigs pretty well. He is quick enough to weakside defend and clean some things up. Is he smart enough ? Not all the way there but better then hanging him out to dry as the center. Specially against strong centers.

Nothing has really changed with Dray and McGee together on this team. With Dray and McGee you have two PF/C types with McGee being the more athletic version of Dray. Dray learned his fakes and bump fakes because he doesn't have McGee's leaps. McGee hasn't learned Drays feel for the game because he is so long and athletic he just relies on that. Eventually McGee will learn more. Dray will never be able to leap better than he does now. Neither is overly physical but between the two, Dray has more strength to hold his position. And Dray doesn't have great wheels. He is always twisting an ankle or something.

I projected that the day would come that one would have to go and I thought it would be Dray because I didn't see Dray and McGee working well. Both are to similar enough in total. Neither is a likely starter are either PF or C on a good team. Both can be very effective backing up either. But in two years, McGee could still be amazing. His physical gifts are just to good to give up on.

So for now, the best way to go is move McGee to the bench and let him back up PF and C. That is what he is right now.

[hands11]

What they need is toughness and power. There is only one college seasoned player that fits that bill and it is Booker. The next is Seraphin for thoughness/athleticism.

You can start Booker at PF with Dray at center but then McGee and Seraphin get log jammed at center and Seraphin ends up to deep on the chart. Solution is to give McGee some minutes at PF

Or you start Seraphin with McGee behind him and it works that way also.

Wall/Mustafa
NY/Crawford/Martin
Howard/Mo
Booker/McGee/Yi
Dray/Seraphin


Wall/Mustafa
NY/Crawford/Martin
Howard/Mo
Dray/Booker/Yi
Seraphin/McGee

Shut Lewis down or just activate him and deactivate Martin or Mustafa as needed.

Either line up would get you similar minutes to what we saw last game, the difference would be how they start. You would always have Booker or Seraphin in the post.

And like clockwork.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/

Lewis might need season-ending surgery

Now maybe they can do one of this rotations.

[leswizards]

That's where we differ. I don't think he's a starter on a good team. On a crappy team? Sure. But not on a good team.

The Chicago Bulls SGs are Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, and Keith Bogans. You feel that Nick Young is not good enough to start over those 3 players? Or, if he is good enough to start over those 3 players, do you feel the Bulls suddenly become crappy with Nick Young as a starting SG?

[Kanyewest]

That's where we differ. I don't think he's a starter on a good team. On a crappy team? Sure. But not on a good team.

The Chicago Bulls SGs are Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, and Keith Bogans. You feel that Nick Young is not good enough to start over those 3 players? Or, if he is good enough to start over those 3 players, do you feel the Bulls suddenly become crappy with Nick Young as a starting SG?

Yeah, I feel Nick Young could start on a few playoff caliber teams in which would lead to them being more successful in the regular season and in the playoffs. Chicago, OKC, New York Knicks, New Orleans, and Dallas. I think people are underestimating that John Wall really isn't a top 10-15 point guard yet this season and the Wizards frontcourt is up for the nomination as the worst frontcourt in the league. Of course, I'm interested to see how Young's motivation changes once he gets paid, but right now he's a one of the few bright spots of this team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

All those numbers CCJ posted about McGee are suspect to me because, who has been playing center in his absense ? Armstrong ? Yi ? And who do they get to play at PF when he is out since Dray plays mostly with McGee? Best we have seen is probably a healthy Lewis with Dray sometimes.

Everybody needs to look ONLY at when McGee is on the court. The 82games numbers say the Wizards score 107 and give up only 108.9 points.

That is not far from playing opponent EVENLY for over 1000 minutes when McGee plays.

That has nothing to do with Seraphin or Armstrong.

Regardless of what all of you say or think about McGee, the Wizards are a much, much, much better team with him on the court. You all might not like McGee but I am sure about what I say.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A simple fix for this team is start Booker with McGee.

[mhd]

A simple fix for this team is start Booker with McGee.

I'd take Booker with Blatche over Booker with McGee.

[Kanyewest]

McGee has been awful lately though especially since the all star break with the exception of that Miami game. I'm not sure how Blatche is holding McGee back though.

[crackhed]

A simple fix for this team is start Booker with McGee.

I'd take Booker with Blatche over Booker with McGee.

booker + blatche ≥ booker + mcgee >>>>> blatche + mcgee
wizards could use booker's toughness inside.

i'd also consider blatche + seraphin

[hands11]

A simple fix for this team is start Booker with McGee.

Hey, Im game for anything that isnt Dray and McGee.

I posted all the combination I thought would work.

For right now considering all things, I thing it would be easier to sit McGee than Dray.

Specially if the plan on moving him any time soon. McGee is young enough still to sit him with no effect. I don't think they have plans on moving him in the next two years. Besides, McGee and Booker still has McGee starting at center and we know he can't hold down the center position well against decent centers.

Booker/Dray and Dray/Seraphin allows you to do that.

And since the data set on these line ups is almost nil, we wont know how they compare until we do them.

[Nivek]

McGee keeps making the same mistakes over and over. I have no problem with the team starting Seraphin and Booker. However, I want to know if McGee is so bad how is this possible:

[http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS16.HTM

Code: Select all

                   Stat      ON Court   OFF Court   Net
                   Minutes   1033       858         54%
Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.   107.0      99.7        +7.3
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.   108.9     111.0        -2.2
Net Points per100 Possessions -1.9     -11.4        +9.4


Javale is on the court for the Wizards approximately 54% of the time, or about 26 minutes a game.
When McGee is on the court the offense scores 107 points per 100 possessions.
When McGee is off the court the offense scores 99.7 points per 100 possessions.

Over the average 48 minute game, the Wizards would score 7.3 pointes more points with McGee than without. He makes the offense MUCH better.

When Javale is on the court the defense allows 108.9 points per 100 possessions.
When Javale is off the court the defense allows 111.0 points per 100 possessions.

Over average 100 possessions the defense allows 2.1 points less with McGee playing. He even is an improvement defensively.

The team net is +9.4 points/48 minutes with McGee on the court

If you don't like that look at PER. His is 16.5, a slight dip from 17 the past couple seasons.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

And if you don't like those particular metrics, here's a list of Cs sorted by efficiency per 48 minutes.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... /6/eff/1-3

Javale is 26th out of 90, right after Bogut (25) and ahead of Okafor (27). He's also ahead of Kaman, Marc Gasol, Biedrins, Cousins, Robin Lopez, Haywood, and Seraphin.

In my opinion, McGee is a tremendous athlete and creative thinker who is playing for the WRONG COACH and in the WRONG SYSTEM. Telling a guy to do what he CANNOT DO WELL and penalizing him when he fails at it is part of the reason Flip's lost 16 of the last 18 and is 40 up and 104 oor so down the past two seasons.

Javale McGee is a good player IMO.

The data from 82games was last updated on January 19. Look at data updated through March 2 at www.basketballvalue.com, and it shows the Wizards +7.15 per 100 possessions offensively when McGee is on the floor, and 0.99 points per 100 worse defensively. The adjusted +/- data on the site (which is based on Dan Rosenbaum's work) indicates the standard error exceeds McGee's APM, which means the data isn't very reliable.

But, let's look at the offensive number anyway. Could McGee be responsible for making the Wizards 7.1 points per 100 possessions better offensively? Well, let's see. He is the team's most efficient regular (using offensive rating), but he's also low usage (basically the lowest usage rate of any regular). His offensive rebounding is pretty good, which helps. He doesn't commit many turnovers. On the other hand, players have indicated he doesn't know the playbook very well. He's not a good screener and his offensive game when they go to him in the post is primitive. Shoot him in short-shorts and on black-and-white film, he'd look like someone from the late 50s or early 60s.

Basically, I have a tough time attributing the team being better offensively when McGee is on the floor to McGee. So, why would there be this difference? Maybe it's because a significant share of the other center minutes have been consumed by Hilton Armstrong (-8.44 offensively), Yi (basically no difference), and Seraphin (-2.32). I think everyone can agree that McGee is a better center than Armstrong, Yi and Seraphin. That's a far different statement than saying McGee is a good NBA center.

I agree with you completely that McGee is a tremendous athlete. I even agree he's creative. He's not a PF, though -- he has zero PF skills. Maybe a team could use him there with a good shooting center. But, he has the size and game of a center.

Almost three seasons into his pro career, he's still getting by almost exclusively on athleticism. Out of curiosity, how is a coach supposed to help a player improve if he's not supposed to tell a guy what his weaknesses are?

I mean, if we're making a list of McGee's strengths, what are they exactly? Running and jumping. Dunking. Blocking shots.

What does he need to work on? Shooting. Strength. Learning the playbook. Boxing out. Positional defense. Not goaltending. Running the floor hard in both directions. Concentration. A post-up game. Setting screens. Others can probably think of more.

The guy produces nice box score stats because he's one of the top athletes in the NBA -- which is really saying something considering the level of athleticism in the league. But he needs to learn how to play basketball in a way that can help a team win games.

[Nivek]

All those numbers CCJ posted about McGee are suspect to me because, who has been playing center in his absense ? Armstrong ? Yi ? And who do they get to play at PF when he is out since Dray plays mostly with McGee? Best we have seen is probably a healthy Lewis with Dray sometimes.

Everybody needs to look ONLY at when McGee is on the court. The 82games numbers say the Wizards score 107 and give up only 108.9 points.

That is not far from playing opponent EVENLY for over 1000 minutes when McGee plays.

That has nothing to do with Seraphin or Armstrong.

Regardless of what all of you say or think about McGee, the Wizards are a much, much, much better team with him on the court. You all might not like McGee but I am sure about what I say.

The up-to-date numbers say the team scores 105.4 and allows 110.3. That's the efficiency differential of a 28-win team.

[Nivek]

I'm with CCJ on starting Booker and McGee. Maybe some of Booker's toughness could rub off on McGee.

As for McGee at PF, every one of his flaws would be magnified at PF because he'd have guard people away from the hoop a significant part of the time. He'd have a ton of trouble with stretch 4s. Plus, it would negate his biggest defensive asset -- the ability to block shots. Even though he makes a TON of defensive mistakes, he still can intimidate players who enter the paint. Keep him at center.

[fishercob]

That JaVale McGee continues to hang on with Team USA remains amazing to some, but he is using this as an opportunity to improve as a defensive rebounder while taking advice from veterans such as Billups and Odom on the fundamentals. Billups described McGee as “a sponge” who “could be really special.”
“He’s not here by accident or mistake. He’s one of the most athletic players I’ve ever seen in my life,” said Odom, an 11-year NBA veteran who went over some individual low post drills with McGee during practice on Friday. “He’s 7-1, got like a David Robinson build, springs off the floor real quick, goes over the rim. If he can just get his feel for the game together, he can have an impact on a team. Because
the game is called basketball, not run and jump.”

Nutshell. Long way for the kid to go, but IMHO it's waaaay to early to pull the plug on him. CCJ, not sure if you saw my post on the last page of the just-locked trade thread, but I took great joy in agreeing with you.

McGee is not Blatche, but Blatche is a cautionary tale with respect to McGee's development.

From day 1, Blatche should have been given strict rules on his role: jumpers off the pass only, run the floor, rebound, be in great shape. Instead he tried to do too much too soon, and he's got no base or fundamentals. He's a complete mess.

Keep McGee's role simple and his minutes in the 20-25 minute range until he's mastered affecting the game every night by running, rebounding and defending. No need to start him. McGee's upside is so high and his athleticism is so out of this world, that he's worth waiting for.

[closg00]

Complete list of 2011 and 2012 FA's.
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b8ksw

[Zonkerbl]

Well, we see Blatche's ceiling now. He's a skilled player who can get you some offensive production, plays better defense than Jamison, has an ongoing problem with focus. You get the feeling that not only has McGee not hit his ceiling but he hasn't even finished growing into his frame yet.

Hey, maybe he's got ADD. Give that boy some ritalin and see what happens. Wasn't there an article in the WaPo about a Nats player that improved tremendously after being diagnosed with adult ADD?

[Benjammin]

Well, we see Blatche's ceiling now. He's a skilled player who can get you some offensive production, plays better defense than Jamison, has an ongoing problem with focus. You get the feeling that not only has McGee not hit his ceiling but he hasn't even finished growing into his frame yet.

Hey, maybe he's got ADD. Give that boy some ritalin and see what happens. Wasn't there an article in the WaPo about a Nats player that improved tremendously after being diagnosed with adult ADD?

I'm concerned that Vale has MBS---momma's boy syndrome.

[Higga]

Blatche needs to go. I'm just sick of him. Maybe he gets it somewhere else but he'll never get it here. Shame because he was playing well the end of last year but I guess that's because he was the only player worth a crap at that time.

I'd stick with McGee, I still think at worst he can be a nice super sub off the bench that gives us energy. Too much raw talent to let go of, I wouldn't pass that up, not yet anyway...