Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

[Jay81]

this howard trade is a sham. Orlando gets raped....in a fantasy league it would be vetod

[verbal8]

this howard trade is a sham. Orlando gets *****....in a fantasy league it would be vetod

It isn't terribly different from the trade where the Wizards got Webber. A decent player and 3 firsts. Moving Richardson is another plus for the Magic. You can argue they should have been able to unload Hedo rather than Richardson as part of the deal, but the only way that could have worked would have been combining with the Joe Johnson deal.

[sfam]

this howard trade is a sham. Orlando gets *****....in a fantasy league it would be vetod

Problem is Orlando should be getting nothing. In a normal world, Howard would have bowed out last year. Everyone knows Howard is leaving after this year. If Howard doesn't like his team, he won't stay, which nixes the deal.

But personally, I think Orlando may be better with their current team. I'm not sold that Howard, Williams, Wallace and Johnson with a bunch of stiffs is going to be better than Lebron, Wade and Bosh along with the rest of their roster. The Nets with a front court of Humphries and Lopez with Brooks and the rest may be stronger, especially if Howard has any lingering injuries.

[Ruzious]

You can't get any better than #1 in the NBA in three point shooting. He shot .472 from 3PT. That is like 70% eFG. The Wizards could really use him.

His WS/48 and PER were well above average, too.

Novak is as effective as someone like Mike Miller these days.

As great a shooter as Novak is - and he is legitimately great at the most important skill - that's how poor athletically he is compared to other NBA 3's. Notice when he plays, opponents often double team Knix guards in the backcourt trying to force him to dribble by himself up court. I've never seen an NBA 3 that had that much trouble just dribbling the ball by himself - since Phil Jackson. If Brian Magid grew to 6'9, he could have been Steve Novak.

[miller31time]

Over the years I posted about Steve Novak. Some people said he couldn't play and they wouldn't want him on the Wizards.

Funny, but now he's signed for 15M over the next 4 years with the Knicks.

Not that you weren't right about Novak being a capable NBA player (if put in the correct role), but the Knicks forking over a buttload of money doesn't help an argument.

See "James, Jerome".

[montestewart]

You can't get any better than #1 in the NBA in three point shooting. He shot .472 from 3PT. That is like 70% eFG. The Wizards could really use him.

His WS/48 and PER were well above average, too.

Novak is as effective as someone like Mike Miller these days.

As great a shooter as Novak is - and he is legitimately great at the most important skill - that's how poor athletically he is compared to other NBA 3's. Notice when he plays, opponents often double team Knix guards in the backcourt trying to force him to dribble by himself up court. I've never seen an NBA 3 that had that much trouble just dribbling the ball by himself - since Phil Jackson. If Brian Magid grew to 6'9, he could have been Steve Novak.

And look at his rebounds and blocks, pretty pathetic for a 6'10" guy, and low in assists and steals too. But still, he can shoot, and last year wasn't a fluke. He's always shot well. Even with his limitations, $15 million for four years is a good deal. Isn't that what the Wizards paid to extend DS?

[Ruzious]

Rico, in that other thread, you're looking at individual moves in a vacuum and ignoring the big picture. Individual moves that NJ made weren't good - some were really bad, like I said. But the glasses they were wearing adjusted for long range vision. You're looking road sign to road sign with no map. Because they had the long-range vision, they were able to make up for mistakes. We're not disagreeing that they made mistakes. Teams like Washington can say that their goal is to put themselves in a position to build for a championship, but they obviously don't act in that fashion. They act in a fashion to try to challenge for the last playoff spot - short-term and long-term.

NJ knew that if they're not competing for a championship, it doesn't matter how bad they are. Billy Bean's approach in baseball was "You either compete for a championship or you rebuild. Anything else is failure." NJ struck out with Lebron, but that doesn't mean they strive for mediocrity. That meant they prepare for the next opportunity. That opportunity appears to have come, and they're going for it. So, while they might have made some screwups along the way, because they had the vision, they have the opportunity.

[montestewart]

Well put Ruzious. Even with a healthy Howard, they might not get past the Heat, but I'm looking at the top contender to do so in the east, and that was a result of choices (not all good: trading the pick for Wallace).

Looking at the Knicks (just got Camby via S&T) they've got about $60 million a year tied up in five not particularly pass-happy front court players (Chandler, Amare, Carmelo, Camby and Novak). Not really sure what room they have left. I guess they can resign Smith and Lin, right? Do they still have MLE beyond that? They look a lot more boxed into a corner than New Jersey.

[Upper Decker]

I haven't paid attention to how the Knicks are able to throw around cash at every Tom, Dick, or Sally, but didn't the lock-out try to prevent teams who were presumably capped out from outspending all other teams? They're paying a ton to Melo, Stat, and Chandler, and surely they must have been over the salary cap, so how do they have all these exceptions for Lin's bloated contract and Camby/Novak/Kidd? If teams are able to circumvent the salary cap like this is the NFL why the hell doesn't Ted open his cheap ass wallet to improve the team?

[montestewart]

I haven't paid attention to how the Knicks are able to throw around cash at every Tom, Dick, or Sally, but didn't the lock-out try to prevent teams who were presumably capped out from outspending all other teams? They're paying a ton to Melo, Stat, and Chandler, and surely they must have been over the salary cap, so how do they have all these exceptions for Lin's bloated contract and Camby/Novak/Kidd? If teams are able to circumvent the salary cap like this is the NFL why the hell doesn't Ted open his cheap ass wallet to improve the team?

It's a great question. Maybe there's a nate33 over on the Knicks board (knick33?) who could do a guest presentation here, because I don't quite get how they're doing it either.

[fishercob]

I haven't paid attention to how the Knicks are able to throw around cash at every Tom, Dick, or Sally, but didn't the lock-out try to prevent teams who were presumably capped out from outspending all other teams? They're paying a ton to Melo, Stat, and Chandler, and surely they must have been over the salary cap, so how do they have all these exceptions for Lin's bloated contract and Camby/Novak/Kidd? If teams are able to circumvent the salary cap like this is the NFL why the hell doesn't Ted open his cheap ass wallet to improve the team?

It's a great question. Maybe there's a nate33 over on the Knicks board (knick33?) who could do a guest presentation here, because I don't quite get how they're doing it either.

It's all because of that arbitration case they unexpectedly won.

[montestewart]

So they had Amare, Carmelo, Chandler, and whatever else, and they were able to sign Kidd, then free to resign their own players (including Novak and Lin) and rookies, then trade from among "whatever else" for Camby. Can they resign Smith too as one of their own players? Otherwise they have a huge hole at SG, or maybe I'm forgetting that they somehow engineered a trade for Monta Ellis for three future 1sts while I wasn't looking.

Chandler/Gadzuric
Amare/Camby
Carmelo/Novak
Shumpert
Lin/Kidd

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

(reposted from previous day)

Colangelo on Cousins. Immaturity will be this kid's downfall.

"He needs to mature as a person (and) as a player if he's going to have an outstanding NBA career," USA basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo said Saturday. "Before there's discussion about him being part of our program, he has a lot of building to do. … He has a lot of growing up to do.”

Mike Krzyzewski declined to close the door on Cousins’ future Olympic hopes.

"He has a talent. He's big. He's young," Krzyzewski said. "You don't know what an experience will do for someone. You're hope it will open their eyes to new things. I think that's what's it done for all players who have participated for the United States. His time here, playing in this culture and against these guys, sometimes can have a positive change for all the players participating. Hopefully, it has it on him and other others."

UPDATE: TGW, Colangelo said it was an opinion and he was "trying to be encouraging".

"I asked him how I was being immature," related Cousins. "He said it was just his opinion. I told him I wasn't trying to get into any of that. I have respect for every veteran. At the end of the day I'm just trying to play hard. Everybody knows that, to even have a chance (to make final roster) we have to play harder than we normally do .... I'm just trying to end the camp on a positive (note)."

Colangelo appreciated Cousins' willingness to discuss the situation.

"He wanted an explanation," said Colangelo. "I was trying ... to be more encouraging than anything else. I told him, 'everything's cool.' We're fine."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z20BllxY7T

TGW, earlier today you called me beyond delusional. I told you why I don't respect you and that you made me angry. Do you care to explain how Cousins' career is in jeopardy from the opinion of a man who wasn't man enough to say what he really thought or who lied and said he was being encouraging? He says he appreciates the guy's willingness to discuss it.

If I thought Cousins was immature I would tell it to his face and hope I still have teeth later. I'd at least try to get him before he got me, but I'd man up and tell him my honest opinion in the most tactful manner I could. Colangelo said he was being encouraging and did not come up with any examples of immaturity.

COLANGELO=HATER

Got that, TGW? You should relate to this man well.

If there were instances Colangelo percieved to be immature acts on the court, the player could have been enlightened on how to conduct himself more maturely or professionally. However, if someone has an opinion that they don't like you or that you're immature but they don't give you any explanation, you really can't grow beyond that. Just leave haters and fools right where they are.

[montestewart]

I don't really follow the Kings, so I have no idea the "immaturity" that followed Cousins from Kentucky to the pros translates on court or in his preparation (or even in his off court life). I know that the world of sports has offered many people that one way or another could be called immature or downright irresponsible (Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Wilt the Stilt, etc) but didn't seem to suffer too much come game time.

[Hoopalotta]

AlexKennedyNBA The Cavaliers are having second thoughts about potential three-team deal with the Magic and Nets, according to source. They may back out.

AlexKennedyNBA The latest team linked to the multi-team Dwight Howard trade? The Timberwolves. They may get involved in the talks, according to sources.

AlexKennedyNBA The Charlotte Bobcats have also been mentioned as a possible third or fourth team in the talks, according to source. This is out of control.

AlexKennedyNBA We'll see if the blockbuster trade can be salvaged. Tomorrow will be interesting.

It's safe to say that Kennedy isn't Wojo, but I am skeptical of this Howard-to-Brooklyn thing.

A) If anyone's willing to offer Mr. Kim (AKA "Hump") a contract better than the Cavaliers or whatever cap-space release valve team that takes him is, the deal is 100% DEAD. Supposedly, only the first year of Hump's deal would be guaranteed, so that's probably not all that hard to do unless his single year salary is gigagantic.

B) While we don't have real details, this sounds plain old awful for the third team taking Q-Richardson and Hump. I'm not sure, but if Hump is going to have to be paid a gigagantic salary to make the money match in the trade, even if just one year is guaranteed, that would be a bad deal as I understand it now. I'm not sure, as it depends on guys like Walton outgoing and stuff like this and we have no idea what sort of draft pick isn't going to be conferred as compensation, though it's hard to believe that it'll be a good one. But, if it ends up being an extra $8 million in extraneous expenses for the 24th pick? Blech. Don't see how the third team triggers this when the time comes.

The need to compensate Hump and the third team seem to be two interests that are at odds with one another, unless Humps market is worse than I think.

To me, the odds are that Howard still goes to the Lakers: It's so much simpler of a trade contingent on only two parties and it seems like better value for the Magic, though maybe they want to send Bynum elsewhere.

[Hoopalotta]

A strike against Cousins is that the Kings have had the absolute worst opponents field goal percentage at the rim in each of the two years he's been there (in fairness, they weren't very good previously, but that doesn't really change anything). Hardly ever do you find bottom dweller teams in this metric who also made the playoffs.

And no, that doesn't make me want to have locked up four years of Jason Thompson for $24 million dollars either.

[LyricalRico]

So they had Amare, Carmelo, Chandler, and whatever else, and they were able to sign Kidd, then free to resign their own players (including Novak and Lin) and rookies, then trade from among "whatever else" for Camby. Can they resign Smith too as one of their own players? Otherwise they have a huge hole at SG, or maybe I'm forgetting that they somehow engineered a trade for Monta Ellis for three future 1sts while I wasn't looking.

Chandler/Gadzuric
Amare/Camby
Carmelo/Novak
Shumpert
Lin/Kidd

JR Smith is also returning so he'll play the majority of the minutes at SG until Shumpert returns from injury. I would also expect Kidd and Lin to play together at times. They are also trying to get Jeffries back, and we all know he's great at the 2.

Basically, they are setting themselves up to have a heckuva 8 man rotation. Problem is that the drop-off from their 8th man to their 9th man is going to be pretty steep IMO.

[Zonkerbl]

Wow, if Cousins doesn't know that his attitude towards life in general and attitude on the court needs some improvement... And instead of saying "I understand the perception and I know some of my actions in the past have led to that perception, it's something I'm working on" he says "what mfer? say that to my face!!!"

I mean that's all you have to know.

[gesa2]

Wow, if Cousins doesn't know that his attitude towards life in general and attitude on the court needs some improvement... And instead of saying "I understand the perception and I know some of my actions in the past have led to that perception, it's something I'm working on" he says "what mfer? say that to my face!!!"

I mean that's all you have to know.

Wow, I read the Cousins quote and had much different thoughts. He talked about respecting the veterans, and even handled the situation pretty well, saying he wanted to end the camp on a good note. We don't know what Cousins was like at the camp, whether Colangelo's quote was more based on reputation or on anything he directly observed, but nothing Cousins said seems bad to me.

[pancakes3]

if the comments were about "comments made in the past" then coangelo is deep in the wrong here. why stir the pot like that? if it was about a recent incident, he should have addressed the issue. if it was about something that should have been kept quiet then he shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. i'm leaning towards that cousins did more or less the right thing here also.

and furthermore, if jamison goes to the heat, a piece of my basketball soul will forever die and wither away.