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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#201 » by Ruzious » Mon May 13, 2013 2:58 pm

tontoz wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:Oladipo's a weird situation. He seems to have flown up the charts based on one season of offensive production (scarily reminds me of how Singleton finally put together a great offensive season w/his traditional great defense in '10-'11). Scouts seem to love his athleticism and defensive talent.


Scoring 13 ppg while shooting only 43% is hardly great although it certainly was an improvement.

Yeah, 64% is more likely to make a believer out of me than 43% - not to mention the significant differences in their 3 point %'s and FT %'s.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#202 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 13, 2013 3:07 pm

It'd be nice of Dirk was the comparison but unfortunately I don't think Olynyk has the range for it. I'm seeing more Christian Laettner - which isn't bad - but not great.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#203 » by Dark Faze » Mon May 13, 2013 3:43 pm

I think you'd look to Heat Bosh as an apt comparison for what you hope Olynyk could be. An average rebounder/defender that uses the shot fake, PNR, and high percentage jumpshots to take over games.

I don't see why he couldn't get close to Bosh in that regard. I can't compare Olynyk to pre-Heat Bosh, because Bosh displayed more athleticism (That Olynyk simply doesn't have) and relied on a wicked quick first step to finish at the rim.

This iteration of Bosh though--Olynyk can definitely be that good, and probably a little bit better of a rebounder.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#204 » by Nivek » Mon May 13, 2013 3:50 pm

Let's dispense with the notion that Chris Singleton's college numbers were ever "great" or even much good. His junior numbers were better than his sophomore and freshman numbers, but were still unimpressive. His eOrtg in his "great" junior season was 101. His 2pt% WAS .466, which would be subpar for a PG. Oladipo this season had an eOrtg of 122 and shot .644 on 2pt attempts. Oladipo more efficient offensively in all three of his college seasons than Singleton in his best.

Comparing their junior years, the only thing Singleton did better was block shots. Rebounding was fairly close (9.4 per 40 minutes for Singleton vs. 8.9 per 40 for Oladipo).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#205 » by fishercob » Mon May 13, 2013 4:59 pm

kirubel94 wrote:I know you guys aren't big fan of blacks or Jews (me neither), but this particular Jew/black has caught my sight.


Edited to make a couple of points:

(1) This line of thinking is preposterous. The notion that someone should be disqualified or favored because of their ethnic background or national origin is beyond stupid, especially considering how international the game has become.

(2) People read these forums. We've had plenty a poster from Europe. It has to be beyond insulting for them to read something like this. Imagine yourself in their shoes.

Nothing personal, kirubel94 -- you're far from the only person talking like this -- but this has to stop, IMO
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#206 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:24 pm

Dieng is just not a top ten pick. Not in any class. Taking him at 8 would be worse than the Ekpe Udoh pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#207 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:38 pm

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:
Whoever they add will need to be able to contribute and fit in right away. I think that leads away from a player like Bennett who we aren't sure of his position and Noel who will take a few years to fill out. I even think that counts out Shabazz.

If they use the top pick, something like VO, CJM, Len, Dieng, Otto, Burke and maybe Kelly Olynyk, seems to be their best chance of not messing up. I feel confident those plays will do what we know they can do at the next level and do it year one. I also expect most if not all to keep good value in about that order.


I certainly hope the Zards don't go into the draft with a short-term approach that results in them drafting the lower-ceiling potential of a VO or Dieng over the higher-ceiling potential of a Bennett, Noel or even a Shabazz. That would be shortsighted.

Oladipo isn't a low upside pick IMO. Not like Dieng or Olynyk IMO. He's such a great athlete that he could be special. Take the defense and athleticism of a Tony Allen, Iman Shumpert, or Avery Bradley and give him a pure shot. That's a very very valuable player. I see him as basically being Shumpert with extreme scoring efficiency whereas Shumpert had very low efficiency throughout his CBB career.

So the defensive potential is top notch and he should have a very reliable three pointer right from the get go. He's scrappy and long too and has good strength. I think we could go small and have great lineups with him, Wall, and Beal.

Now if you're saying the upside with him is less because our need for a SG/SF is low, that's different. I'm not totally buying in to our wing situation right now. First, I think as Beal develops, he's going to get to the point where he will play PG, SG, and SF. That'll give us versatility.

Second, I'm not sold on Ariza and Martell being able to stay healthy and effective and stay with us long term. They were good last year in between injuries but both seemed to miss a lot of time. Webster is a UFA this summer and Ariza will be next summer. They're not necessarily part of our long term plans.

So I think you can draft Oladipo just like you can draft Shabazz or Porter. All three have positional flexibility. Oladipo should eventually be able to play some at each perimeter spot too. Porter should be able to eventually play up at PF IMO. Bazz should be interchangeable at SG and SF.

And I think Oladipo represents an upgrade over both Webster and Ariza, so there is that factor. Draft him and we'll have a rock solid group of perimeter players to build around. That might be the best outcome you can hope for in such a poor draft class.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#208 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Forgot to mention McCollum in that post as a viable multi-position perimeter player. I've been resistant to picking him at 8, but I'm warming up to the idea simply because I think this draft class is bad and guys will go higher than your instinct says they should. Probably not going to be able to trade down into his natural range in the teens and still get him.

Something weird would have to happen for him to be the BPA for me at 8 right now. I'd still take Noel, Bennett, Zeller, Porter, McLemore, Oladipo, Burke, and probably Muhammad over him. One of those guys will have to look terrible in order to drop behind McCollum. Or McCollum is going to have to light the workouts and the combine up and shoot up like a rocket.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#209 » by fugop » Mon May 13, 2013 5:48 pm

Dieng's numbers compare favorably to Shabazz Muhammad's, even in his raw freshman year. Muhammad had a lower turnover percentage, higher usage, higher 3pt%, and better ft%. Dieng rebounded better (better ORB%, DRB%, TRB%), had a higher TS%, higher AST%, higher STL%, higher BLK%.

Dieng is not a top ten pick in most classes. He's too old. In this class, I'm not so sure. In any case, I'd rather have an Udoh with shooting range than a poor-man's Corliss Williamson, like Shabazz.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#210 » by Dat2U » Mon May 13, 2013 5:52 pm

TIER ONE: Ha! Not a chance.

TIER TWO: The Best of a mediocre bunch.

1. CE Nerlens Noel
2. SF Otto Porter
3. SG Victor Oladipo
4. PG Trey Burke

TIER THREE: Skilled but flawed.
5. FC Kelly Olynyk
6. CE Alex Len
7. PF Anthony Bennett
8. PG C.J. McCollum
9. SG Ben McLemore
10. FC Cody Zeller

TIER FOUR: Shoot for the stars! Guys that will sneak up and suprise you.
11. SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
12. SF Glen Rice Jr.
13. PF Dario Saric
14. SF Giannis Adetokunbo
15. PG Dennis Schroeder
16. SG Jamaal Franklin

TIER FIVE: Role player depot.
17. CE Gorgui Dieng
18. SF Shabazz Muhammad
19. CE Jeff Withey
20. SG Erick Green
21. SF Sergey Karasev
22. CE Mike Muscala
23. PG Pierre Jackson
24. PG Nate Wolters
25. PG Isiah Canaan

TIER SIX: Developmental types
26. CE Rudy Gobert
27. CE Steven Adams
28. CE Lucas Noquiera
29. CE Mouhammadou Jaiteh
30. SG Alex Abrines
31. PF Livio Jean-Charles

TIER SEVEN: Primed to disappoint.
32. PF Tony Mitchell
33. SG Archie Goodwin
34. PG Michael Carter-Williams
35. PG Shane Larkin
36. CE Mason Plumlee
37. SG Allen Crabbe
38. PG Lorenzo Brown
39. SG B.J. Young
40. PG Myck Kabongo
41. SG Reggie Bullock
42. SF C.J. Leslie
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#211 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:58 pm

Duncan, Parker, Gasol, Ginobli, Bellinelli, Deng, Radmanovic, Splitter, Ibaka,Sefalosha, Bogut, Diaw, De Colo, Mahinmi, Prigioni. That's a list of the international players in the playoffs right now, most of them Euros. They are everywhere.

I agree that an anti-Euro bias is quaint and just needlessly self limiting. Plenty of good Euros are out there, plenty of good players everywhere.

My issue is that I don't see them except in unmeaningful exhibition formats like the Hoops Summit. I don't talk about Euro players because I don't see them and don't follow the Euroleagues closely.. I've got no basis for an opinion.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#212 » by Dat2U » Mon May 13, 2013 6:13 pm

My favorites for #8 are Olynyk, Len & McCollum. In that order. If Oladipo falls I take him.

If we come by means of another 1st round pick my target would be Glen Rice Jr. He dominated against NBDL competition and was MVP of the finals.

I'm still not against moving the #8 pick for a youngish front court starter locked up on a long term deal. My favorite targets are Al Horford, DeMarcus Cousins, Ersan Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson & Serge Ibaka.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#213 » by fishercob » Mon May 13, 2013 6:24 pm

Dat2U wrote:My favorites for #8 are Olynyk, Len & McCollum. In that order. If Oladipo falls I take him.

If we come by means of another 1st round pick my target would be Glen Rice Jr. He dominated against NBDL competition and was MVP of the finals.

I'm still not against moving the #8 pick for a youngish front court starter locked up on a long term deal. My favorite targets are Al Horford, DeMarcus Cousins, Ersan Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson & Serge Ibaka.


I'm pretty much in the exact same place, except am not as sure as the order for who I'd pick. I don't have one yet, but loosely it's Len, Oladipo, Olynyk, CJM,
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#214 » by verbal8 » Mon May 13, 2013 7:15 pm

fishercob wrote:
Dat2U wrote:My favorites for #8 are Olynyk, Len & McCollum. In that order. If Oladipo falls I take him.

If we come by means of another 1st round pick my target would be Glen Rice Jr. He dominated against NBDL competition and was MVP of the finals.

I'm still not against moving the #8 pick for a youngish front court starter locked up on a long term deal. My favorite targets are Al Horford, DeMarcus Cousins, Ersan Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson & Serge Ibaka.


I'm pretty much in the exact same place, except am not as sure as the order for who I'd pick. I don't have one yet, but loosely it's Len, Oladipo, Olynyk, CJM,


Yeah I am pretty similar. I would put Bennett in the mix if he was available. However I have my doubts he lasts until 8th. I think Corliss Williamson(who was more of a post player) is his floor.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#215 » by DCZards » Mon May 13, 2013 8:36 pm

My top two picks for the Zards would be Bennett, who I doubt will be available at 8, and Len, who also may not be available at 8. I’m warming to the idea of McCollum being the Zards draft pick and I still think Shabazz deserves serious consideration because the kid can flat-out score the ball. Oladipo is a great athlete and defender, but I’m not convinced he’s the shooter he needs to be to hold down the SG or SF slot.

There’s been a lot of back and forth, pro and cons on this board regarding Shabazz. It reminds me in many ways of the discussion last year about Harrison Barnes, who is currently playing very well for GSW and is on his way to being a better NBA player than some on this board thought he would be.

I decided to look at where Dat had Barnes ranked in his 2012 draft poll. And, wouldn’t you know it, the 18th ranked player in Dat’s poll last year was Barnes and his 18th ranked player this year is Shabazz. What irony. Barnes was drafted 7 last year and I expect Bazz to be drafted somewhere in that range this year.

Dat does a great job putting together his rankings. He gives us plenty to talk/debate about….although, I admittedly know very little about most of the international players in his rankings. The two players I think Dat is most wrong about this year are Bazz and McLemore, who he has at 9. I think McLemore could turn out to be the best player in the 2013 NBA draft.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#216 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 13, 2013 8:47 pm

I agree with Consig about devaluing Cousins. If I really like him, why wouldn't Sacramento? I'm thinking he'll be hard to pry away. His trade cost is probably prohibitive.

I disagree about us getting a raw deal in terms of buying high if we do trade for him however. I don't think Cousins is going to hit UFA for another four years. I think Sacramento would probably match any offer or they will trade him to another team. If we want Cousins, I'm pretty confident we're going to have to trade for him.

If it can't be done, I would get pretty aggressive with this draft class. This is the year you do it:

1.) The class is bad. There are only a few guys that are going to end up being really good.
2.) Randy can't develop raw young players unless the guy is a can't miss talent.
3.) This is the last lotto pick we're likely going to have during the Wall era.
4.) Draft picks are probably going to be dirt cheap since the class sucks.

So what do you do in a class like this? Go out and get the one or two guys you really really like. I'd like to see us move up from 8 and go get our guy. Noel or Porter ideally. Then I'd like to see us buy another first rounder to target someone like CJM or Zeller if he drops. I think OKC's lotto pick is going to be easy to acquire.

If we can get two good players out of this class and get rid of some of our young players that aren't working out and maybe some of our expirings, I think we can make big strides.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#217 » by No-Man » Mon May 13, 2013 8:54 pm

Draft board at this time...

Noel
Porter
McLemore (trade)
Burke (trade)
Bennett
Muhammad
Zeller
Oladipo
Len
McCollum


I think Oladipo can mix well with Wall and Beal and wouldn't may being a bench guy, the others two have to start.
Also Oladipo can play some SF do to his toughness (alla Tony Allen).

One of this 10 would be there, I want nothing to do with Olynyk in the top10, only if you trade back.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#218 » by Dark Faze » Mon May 13, 2013 9:11 pm

DCZards wrote:My top two picks for the Zards would be Bennett, who I doubt will be available at 8, and Len, who also may not be available at 8. I’m warming to the idea of McCollum being the Zards draft pick and I still think Shabazz deserves serious consideration because the kid can flat-out score the ball. Oladipo is a great athlete and defender, but I’m not convinced he’s the shooter he needs to be to hold down the SG or SF slot.

There’s been a lot of back and forth, pro and cons on this board regarding Shabazz. It reminds me in many ways of the discussion last year about Harrison Barnes, who is currently playing very well for GSW and is on his way to being a better NBA player than some on this board thought he would be.


To be fair, Barnes' ranking from that class is still in the air. The Warriors playoff success aside, his stats have been fairly bad this year.

Guys I'd take before Barnes based off a year of play

Davis
MKG
Lillard
Beal
Waiters
Drummond
Henson
Harkless
Fournier
Sullinger
Jenkins
T. Jones
A. Nicholson

Then there's guys who have a chance at still being better than Barnes but haven't been showcased enough

Leonard
Lamb
T. Rob

I agree with you that Barnes is probably closer to the eight best player than the 17th, but just being devils advocate here a bit to show that an argument is still there to be made that he could still end up closer to the 17th best.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#219 » by The Consiglieri » Mon May 13, 2013 9:12 pm

Nivek wrote:Let's dispense with the notion that Chris Singleton's college numbers were ever "great" or even much good. His junior numbers were better than his sophomore and freshman numbers, but were still unimpressive. His eOrtg in his "great" junior season was 101. His 2pt% WAS .466, which would be subpar for a PG. Oladipo this season had an eOrtg of 122 and shot .644 on 2pt attempts. Oladipo more efficient offensively in all three of his college seasons than Singleton in his best.

Comparing their junior years, the only thing Singleton did better was block shots. Rebounding was fairly close (9.4 per 40 minutes for Singleton vs. 8.9 per 40 for Oladipo).

Singleton was considered the best defender in that class and in the nation at the time. Ditto oladipo. Both made significant improvements on the offensive end to boost the hell out of their stock in their draft years. That's the analogy, not that their offensive numbers in and of themselves are relatively equal.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#220 » by Dark Faze » Mon May 13, 2013 9:18 pm

Drafting based completely on perimeter defense is a terrible idea. Oladipo is high in rankings because of crazy high offensive efficiency to pair with that defense.

Singletons perimeter defense was world class in college sure, but his offense was always pretty mediocre to bad. Even in the NBA he rated highly defensively this year but it doesn't mean much because there are two sides of the floor and he's a net negative due to amounting to what is basically a turnover whenever he decides to try to score the ball.

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