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Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars

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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#201 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed Jul 3, 2013 2:41 pm

verbal8 wrote:
Jay81 wrote:or Derrick Williams?

The Wizards could but why?

I really can't justify adding any significant incentive to a straight up deal. I actually think a deal straight up would be good for both teams. It balances the Wizards roster better, but put Williams in a spot to primarily get his minutes at PF. For the wolves they add a good wing defender, which would be helpful with the poor defenders at SG and PF.


I like this idea. Williams is also a FA next year so we could let him expire for caps space.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#202 » by Deeptu McPullup » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:13 pm

Buyer's remorse? Need a pickmeup?

Spoiler:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/352425893509074946[/tweet]

:falloff:

Not sure why that tweet is double embedding under the spoiler tag. Somebody PM Nate.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#203 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:15 pm

Thank God I'm not a Bucks fan. Sorry Ruz.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#204 » by FAH1223 » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:32 pm

Kyle Korver is about get really overpaid by the Bucks.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#205 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:40 pm

Wow the market for high volume shooters is insane right now. 3/20 for Korver?! Sheesh.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#206 » by keynote » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:41 pm

That Webster contract is looking better and better.

Man, that's a lot of dough for Korver. And, if Korver signs, that would likely kill any chance of an Ersa/Ariza-centric swap - not that one was necessarily on the table anyway.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#207 » by MDStar » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:41 pm

Reading all this "doom and gloom" stuff, I’m just wondering why are people complaining? There is no evidence one way or the other that other teams weren't interested in Martell. For all we know, several teams (there are still a few with cap space) could have been interested, just waiting for the bigger fish to sign. If we waited, we would have run the risk of some GM, throwing 7 or 8 million a year at him and it would’ve been bye bye Webster.

Secondly, what if the market rate for Martell was 3 years for 14 million. The guy came in on a one year flyer, which he could’ve gotten anywhere, played his ass off, integrated with the team, gave us shooting that we desperately needed and is not an advocate for the organization. Why not reward him with an extra million per and the possibility but not guaranteed 4th year? It's not a break the bank deal, it doesn’t impede us from further moves, gives us immediate and future quality depth, which we saw last year we desperately need. Other teams may not have paid him exactly what we did, but it would have been close, why play those games when we're already bereft of quality NBA talent?

EG has made some bad deals in the past, but this is not one of them.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#208 » by keynote » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:49 pm

MDStar wrote:Reading all this "doom and gloom" stuff, I’m just wondering why are people complaining?


I admit to an initial sticker shock. Part of the fun of coming to this board is reading the community react in real time.

But, after some time to digest - and after watching how the market settled for other swingmen role players - I'm content with the deal. Sure, it'd be nice to lock a player in at a ridiculous discount once and a while, but that rarely happens. The best "discount" deals for young players (e.g., Steph Curry) are usually signed because that player has an injury risk. Veterans might give discounts to chase rings. And, that's about it.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#209 » by truwizfan4evr » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:03 pm

The re-signing of Martell Webster makes sense, though some will question the length of his deal and the wisdom of president Ernie Grunfeld.

The Wizards used the full mid-level exception, meaning it doesn't count against their salary cap, to sign Webster to a four-year contract worth $22 million Tuesday. They will have the option to buy him out in the final year which isn't fully guaranteed, so the commitment is actually less than $20 million until further notice.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#210 » by verbal8 » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:11 pm

keynote wrote:
MDStar wrote:Reading all this "doom and gloom" stuff, I’m just wondering why are people complaining?


I admit to an initial sticker shock. Part of the fun of coming to this board is reading the community react in real time.

But, after some time to digest - and after watching how the market settled for other swingmen role players - I'm content with the deal. Sure, it'd be nice to lock a player in at a ridiculous discount once and a while, but that rarely happens.

I don't have a problem with the price for a healthy Webster. I am not sold that he will stay healthy for the length of the deal even if it is basically a 3 year deal.

EG isn't unique in overvaluing his roster, but the Stevenson re-signing and Blatche extension make me doubt a lot of EG's free agency moves.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#211 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:20 pm

MDStar wrote:Reading all this "doom and gloom" stuff, I’m just wondering why are people complaining? There is no evidence one way or the other that other teams weren't interested in Martell. For all we know, several teams (there are still a few with cap space) could have been interested, just waiting for the bigger fish to sign. If we waited, we would have run the risk of some GM, throwing 7 or 8 million a year at him and it would’ve been bye bye Webster.

Secondly, what if the market rate for Martell was 3 years for 14 million. The guy came in on a one year flyer, which he could’ve gotten anywhere, played his ass off, integrated with the team, gave us shooting that we desperately needed and is not an advocate for the organization. Why not reward him with an extra million per and the possibility but not guaranteed 4th year? It's not a break the bank deal, it doesn’t impede us from further moves, gives us immediate and future quality depth, which we saw last year we desperately need. Other teams may not have paid him exactly what we did, but it would have been close, why play those games when we're already bereft of quality NBA talent?

EG has made some bad deals in the past, but this is not one of them.


Well we'd better hope Webster doesn't return to his career norms. It's overpay for half a season of good play when he was a below average player for 6 out of his 7 NBA seasons.

I just don't think I could be talked into liking a deal where we give $22 mil (or $19 mil) to a SF when we just drafted our SF of the future at #3. I still think it's a poor allocation of resources considering the holes elsewhere on the roster. We needed talent, but it wasn't a necessity at SF anymore, it became a luxury when Porter was the pick. The lack of depth elsewhere really didn't allow for such luxuries IMO.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#212 » by Higga » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:34 pm

Ugh EG is awful. I like Webster but that's too much coin, especially after we just drafted Porter who's gonna be our future 3 anyway. And the four years makes it even worse. That money could have been spent on some frontcourt depth(where we're REALLY weak especially with Nene's injury history).

EG is just terrible when it comes to asset management. He needs to take an Economics class or two.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#213 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:40 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Well we'd better hope Webster doesn't return to his career norms. It's overpay for half a season of good play when he was a below average player for 6 out of his 7 NBA seasons.

I just don't think I could be talked into liking a deal where we give $22 mil (or $19 mil) to a SF when we just drafted our SF of the future at #3. I still think it's a poor allocation of resources considering the holes elsewhere on the roster. We needed talent, but it wasn't a necessity at SF anymore, it became a luxury when Porter was the pick. The lack of depth elsewhere really didn't allow for such luxuries IMO.


I thought he played well the entire season. He shot at or above 40% during every month in the season except for the final month where he was injured. I wouldn't expect him to shoot 56% like he did in March.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#214 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:47 pm

verbal8 wrote:
keynote wrote:
MDStar wrote:Reading all this "doom and gloom" stuff, I’m just wondering why are people complaining?


I admit to an initial sticker shock. Part of the fun of coming to this board is reading the community react in real time.

But, after some time to digest - and after watching how the market settled for other swingmen role players - I'm content with the deal. Sure, it'd be nice to lock a player in at a ridiculous discount once and a while, but that rarely happens.

I don't have a problem with the price for a healthy Webster. I am not sold that he will stay healthy for the length of the deal even if it is basically a 3 year deal.

EG isn't unique in overvaluing his roster, but the Stevenson re-signing and Blatche extension make me doubt a lot of EG's free agency moves.


I wouldn't put Stevenson in the same category of bad contracts as Blatche (4 years 15 million vs 3 years 28 million). Stevenson was useful for 1 year when the Wizards made the playoffs and more importantly helped the Mavs stop LeBron James in the Finals
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#215 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:48 pm

payitforward wrote:As I've written a couple of times already, this was Martell's one chance to get a long-term contract for real $$, and I'm sure his people walked in the door w/ a ton of comparables and were able to point to interest from several other teams. So the deal is no surprise.

Is it a good deal for the Wizards? Well, the bottom line financial risk is no doubt covered, in that teams usually insure contracts. The impact on cap space isn't that big an issue either, as it's mostly some years down the line.

Are there players in the league who make less and are better? Sure. Tony Allen is a more productive player than Martell Webster for example. But there are also guys who aren't as good and make more.

From a Monumental Sports point of view -- as opposed to impact on wins and losses -- Martell is a great guy to have around. His obvious brains, his ability to talk, his willingness to lead. Those are special qualities.

I'm a numbers guy, but not every signing is exclusively about numbers. I love the guy, and I'm delighted to think of him as a Wizard long-term. I have no grief whatever w/ this deal -- welcome back, Martell!


I also would say that there's a substantial difference in having multiple years w/a player over 30 (Ariza, Okafor, Nene), and having multiple years with a player that's only 25, and actually, technically, could be a potential foundation piece if he could stay healthy.

While I wouldn't have selected Porter, I do kind of like how things have been set up, the team is essentially locked in in terms of the back court and small forward, and can focus all attention going forward the next two years on the twin mission of #1 keeping Nene and Oka healthy, and #2 figuring out for once and for all if there's anything to Seraphin, Booker, Ves, or Singleton as long term pieces, probably not, but we'll see. I kind of see the lack of depth, and cap space available to address the position as essentially a means to evaluate these guys for one last year, before deciding what their roles will be in the future, if any. Not a bad plan. We own our picks next year in that mega stacked draft, and should be getting some cap space going forward as well and have Ariza and Oka as an expiring to address these issues if as expected, that pile of first rounders/boyd draftees turns into a colossal pile of busts.

I won't cry any if we get extra minutes to evaluate Seraphin and Vesely for once and for all, and if it boosts are draft slot in the best draft in a decade, I definitely won't be crying.

And as mentioned earlier, health is a big question w/his track record, but at least he's young, and that is a huge selling point, ditto his chemistry and understanding with the team.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#216 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:53 pm

DCsOwn wrote:
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:Also, I don't get all the hand wringing about the log jam at SF. ....

Really! A log jam might mean you had two really good players at one position, neither of whom is a major injury risk. We don't have a log jam at any position!

We won 29 games last year. At our best, when we were healthy, we posted a .500 record. A log jam is the least of our worries. Improving the talent level of our roster is what we should be focusing on. I think we took a step in the draft, then a small step backwards w/ Maynor. Lets see what's next.


To be fair, we were quite a bit better than .500 when we were "healthy". Remember, we finished the season on a six game losing streak with John playing but we were trotting like seven players out there each of those games with no Nene, Beal, Webster, Okafor, Ariza etc. Those games don't count in my book. When Wall, Beal and Nene played together I think we were something like seven or eight games above .500, and a number of those losses occurred when John was working himself back into a groove. I do agree with your broader point though, I'm not sure we have much of a logjam anywhere, especially if Ariza's dealt. We have a number of PFs for example, but we don't know that any of them are deserving of extensive rotation minutes aside from Okafor/Nene (whichever is nominally playing the four). Every other position is adequately stocked IMO. Wall, Maynor at the one, Beal and Rice jr at the two, Webster, Porter and Singleton at the three, and Okafor and Nene at the five.


And if you want to go full homer, Nene was never healthy and was actually seriously considering it quits during the season. His injury dramatically effected his season. Assuming he get proper rest this summer, he'll be a different player next winter as long as he can stay healthy, always a big question w/him.

If healthy, this team will finish as a 5 or a 6 seed w/a little bit of a chance as a 4, and will probably win 45-50, if reasonably healthy, it's probably 42-48 wins.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#217 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jul 3, 2013 5:02 pm

Higga wrote:Ugh EG is awful. I like Webster but that's too much coin, especially after we just drafted Porter who's gonna be our future 3 anyway. And the four years makes it even worse. That money could have been spent on some frontcourt depth(where we're REALLY weak especially with Nene's injury history).

EG is just terrible when it comes to asset management. He needs to take an Economics class or two.


I think it's more, Hollywood metaphorically speaking, he needs someone in the F.O., to conk him on the head with a blunt object, and drag him off and lock him in a closet during any contract negotiation with any of the teams impending free agents. I can't recall a single quality contract he's resigned a player for over the past decade, every single one of them was an idiotic overpay, one wonders what might have happened if Blatche hadn't killed part of his market value with another run in the for the law leading up to his free agency several years ago. Even the Gil money left on the table debacle was a farce, the bulk of the money he left on the table being what he would have paid his agent, if he'd hired one to negotiate the deal (he didn't, so he could keep all the money himself). EG can get some decent deals with other teams FA's, but he seems to get little looney tunes bubble hearts around his head anytime it comes to negotiating with one of his own vets.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#218 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 3, 2013 5:17 pm

Not that it should matter but interesting note here:

One other tidbit that probably greased the wheels here, and in the Wiz signing Webster on the cheap last summer: Webster’s agent, Dan Fegan, reps both Wall and Nene.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... ree-agency
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#219 » by Higga » Wed Jul 3, 2013 5:45 pm

Dat2U wrote:Not that it should matter but interesting note here:

One other tidbit that probably greased the wheels here, and in the Wiz signing Webster on the cheap last summer: Webster’s agent, Dan Fegan, reps both Wall and Nene.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... ree-agency


Wouldn't shock me if the agent conned EG though.
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Re: Webster re-ups for 4 years/22 million dollars 

Post#220 » by theboomking » Wed Jul 3, 2013 5:58 pm

I don't have a major problem with this signing. We may, or may not have paid a little above market, but Webster is a perfect fit and a good guy, and I am happy for him. If Webster can stay healthy, which is a big question, then this deal could look like a bargain.

I also don't understand the hand wringing over Porter's minutes. First of all, getting 20 minutes a game for the 1st half of his rookie season wouldn't be a disaster. Secondarily, Porter, Ariza and Webster all have good positional versatility. Ariza and Porter can both play PF in a small ball lineup and Webster can play SG. I am looking forward to seeing some lineups with Wall, Porter, Beal and Webster on the floor at the same time.

Lastly, the only way we don't trade Ariza prior to the deadline is if we are planning on letting him expire. If that is the case, then we won't need to give him minutes to maintain his value, then Ariza can ride the pine a bit.

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