Wizards Heat GT Nov 3, 2013

[jivelikenice]

Agreed....On that alley-oop, I have no idea why he went for a layup over a dunk. Makes no sense. He also has to be quicker getting the ball up when he gets in down low. No time for a not so power dribble.....

[WizarDynasty]

Seraphin has to be able to rebound in traffic for him to crack the starting line up in my opinion but he is definitely showing sixth man potential by forcing the defense to collapse around him and open up easy shots on the perimeter.
Defensively, he seems to be playing with alot more aggression seems to be taking on Harrington's personality which i like alot.

and what seraphin really needs to do is actually anticipate that his man is going to bite on the slightest fake because he usually has his man beat position wise. If learns to throw fakes, its going to be extremely hard to guard him because it will disrupt his opponents timing. So many times, Birdman just the exact same time that seraphin did which means that birdman was gambling that seraphin would leave his feet at predetermine moment. If seraphin a few times in teh game, throws off his opponents anticipation of his move by doing a head fake or shoulder fake right before he shoots it, he is going to get to the line alot, especially if seraphin put the ball on teh ground and dribbles before he shoots it inside the paint.
He has a massive body which means that defenders have to guess when he is going to leave his feet because if seraphin ever collides with another body defensively, the other body is going to take alot punishment. LIke a mack truck hitting a pick up. Seraphin needs to start pump faking, getting his man to jump in the air and then slamming his body into the defender and shooting the ball. Not only will his defender hesitate next time in trying to block his shot, but seraphin can finally start to earn respect from the refs.
Seraphin right now is alot like john wall. You have to throw off the timing of defender. You always have to throw a hesitation in your offensive move....let your defender think you are going to do some....just slow it down...and then speed it back up. If you go at the same rate, you make it easy for a defender to predict what you are about to do. Seraphin, if a defender is playing you tightly,---and seraphin man is always playing him tightly, one little pump fake will send him flying in the air because a defender that is playing you close...is already beat.

same thing with wall, wall is playing tightly on the drive but because WALL CAN't suddenly stop on a dime after turning on his jets.....he can't stop on a dime and maintain his dribble--- How many times have you seen wall burst at full speed..and suddenly stop...and then immediately burst back to full speed again....almost never...ARENAS, IVERSON, PAUL, ROSE...they all can do this regularly...BUT NOT WALL...ITS ONE SPEED...NEVER SLOWS DOWN and SUDDENLY SPEEDS BACK UP AGAIN. ITS takes alot more athleticism to slow down and to speed back up that to run and one speed. SLOWING DOWN takes alot of leg strength. And then to immediately start back up after slowing down...takes even more athleticism.ONE of the reason he is overpaid WALL IS NOT AS ATHLETIC As HE WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE and ITS REALLY AN ILLUSION>>>!!!! his defender can easily predict that he is going to drive all the way to the rim. The momemt wall drives full speed and then stops on a dime, and his defender is still running at full speed--at that exact moment, Wall's man for the rest of the game will be

WORRIED about getting faked. The whole point of Wizards ist hat they don't teach their bigs to instill fear in the defense by faking. If you know your opponent is trying to get you to jump in teh air, you are less likely to be aggressive in defending his shot. Wall doesn't have fakes that intentionally draw fouls. Seraphin doesn't have fakes that intentionally draw fouls. It's part of wizard culture that Leonsis needs to change. .When that happens, our offense is going to be really hard to stop and the natural talent of this roster will begin to show. Guy like Gortat...its too late for them, but our young guys who are coordinated, wall, beal, and seraphin--the sky is the limited. It's too bad that our management didn't evaluate how poorly uncoordinated vesely is when dribbling the ball against defensive pressure. -- Coordination with the basketball is not something you can coach.

[dobrojim]

2 other observations that others may also have commented on

(didn't read the whole thread)

Al has sucked. We should expect this on a regular basis. We should
also expect him to have games where he plays pretty well. Hopefully
the ratio of these games will not be totally unfavorable for the season.

Beal is getting doubled often. This is especially problematic when
he gets the ball on the sideline.

One of the things MIA does extremely well is pass the ball QUICKLY to the open man.
Each pass happens immediately. Defenses cannot catch up. This can start with the
slightest dropoff of a defender on a PnR and cascades to a really clean look from one
of their myriad of quality 3 pt shooters.

[WizarDynasty]

2 other observations that others may also have commented on

(didn't read the whole thread)

Al has sucked. We should expect this on a regular basis. We should
also expect him to have games where he plays pretty well. Hopefully
the ratio of these games will not be totally unfavorable for the season.

Beal is getting doubled often. This is especially problematic when
he gets the ball on the sideline.

One of the things MIA does extremely well is pass the ball QUICKLY to the open man.
Each pass happens immediately. Defenses cannot catch up. This can start with the
slightest dropoff of a defender on a PnR and cascades to a really clean look from one
of their myriad of quality 3 pt shooters.

But miami also doesn't have a post option outside of lebron. they have bosh who only uses finesse and the moment you start to rough him up ....his bad knee forces him back to being a pure jumpshooter that wants no part of contact.
Bird man is self check. The wade and lebron pretty much thrive off forcing you to shoot a jumper and then ramming the ball down your throat. Miami intentionally certain shots so they can set up their half court defense. they know that they have a much higher success rate if they can get you to miss a shot in the half court and then they can get lebron running full speeds in transition. Once miami is in a half court, they are pretty much a jump shooting team unless the refs let them get away with illegal moving picks by udonis haslem or birdman, bosh. None of those guys actually is strong enough to set a solid screen so they like to stick their knees out. Seraphin and Nene are better post options than Bosh---Bosh is 80 percent of time going to shoot a fade away jumper because he hates the contact because of his bad knee.

These are thing you have realize. Bosh does not want to bang with seraphin in the post because one nice bang from seraphin will probably aggravate his bad knee.

[cwb3]

This team has desperately needed a reliable base PnR to anchor the offense. I used to cry out for one in the Eddie Jordan days. Given the "talent" on the Wizards, they need a basic go-to to structure the offense around.

[hands11]

I've actually been semi-pleased with KS so far this season.

Still doesn't rebound well but seems to be hitting more of his shots.

I didn't watch yesterday's game. Did he even try to take it strong to the basket? In the previous game there were a few times when he should have dunked but went up soft and missed.

He is a frustrating player. A lot of guys just don't have the talent to be effective in the NBA. he has the talent but just needs to get a clue.

I was mostly pleased that he shot 4/5. Maybe he was just hitting his jumpers. I don't remember
his shot selection all that specifically. I don't remember any really long Js.

But one play he backed his defender down in front of the restricted area, got double teamed
and hit Beal in the corner for an open 3. That's a play he's been needing to make since forever.

He is getting better at seeing the double team and passing out. Its something you learn with experience and practice.

[Nivek]

This may be a crazy idea, but how 'bout waiting until Seraphin has more than one consecutive good game before crowning him The Answer to the Wizards' frontcourt woes? Especially when that one "good" game was not actually good.

So far this season, Seraphin has produced twice as many turnovers per minute as the average player and he's yet to record a single assist. He's fouling at an alarming rate, and he's now no longer rebounding like a SF -- he's rebounding like a PG.

Seraphin's offensive rating (points produced per possession x 100) against Miami was 107 -- an astoundingly BAD number considering he made 4-of-5 from the floor. Why was it so bad? No assists, no offensive rebounds, 2 turnovers (in only 7 possessions).

[dlts20]

here is my 2 cents.

Im not worried at all about Beal. Its all about him and our O finding some kind of rythm which is hard to do when your 2 so called stars are always hurt or playing like they dont even try to be a Superstar. Either way, I think he looks a ton better and so will the whole O once we get Nene & Gotat together. At that point teams cant double anyone. You can double off or Ariza but he'll do a solid job of making them pay. If not then Web will start soon enough.

As for Wall and the p&r. I disagree with everyone that he's bad at it. Its been my #1 reason why I wanted another coach. I dont think this system is built for Wall. Its built for an unathletic, jump shooting PG. Its nearly impossible for the PG to get to the rim in the halfcourt and the only pass to make off the p&r is a basic pass. Its just like Flip's system. Thats all Billups, Cassell, and guys like that did.

This is not the same p&r system that Westbrook is in or that SVG use to run with Wade all the time when they won the title. Just because its a p&r doesnt mean that everyone runs it the same or teaches it the same. I remember with Flip, the bigs would all leave before they even set the pick. Its not set up to sceen the defender so your PG can attack. Thats what kinda system we should have with Wall and its not all just about his J either

[WizarDynasty]

This may be a crazy idea, but how 'bout waiting until Seraphin has more than one consecutive good game before crowning him The Answer to the Wizards' frontcourt woes? Especially when that one "good" game was not actually good.

So far this season, Seraphin has produced twice as many turnovers per minute as the average player and he's yet to record a single assist. He's fouling at an alarming rate, and he's now no longer rebounding like a SF -- he's rebounding like a PG.

Seraphin's offensive rating (points produced per possession x 100) against Miami was 107 -- an astoundingly BAD number considering he made 4-of-5 from the floor. Why was it so bad? No assists, no offensive rebounds, 2 turnovers (in only 7 possessions).

Ok we all are very aware that Kev can't rebound in traffic if he had crazy glue applied to his finger tips. That's a very serious long term problem. However, credit must given to seraphin for being a threat, weakening miami's defense causing them to collapse, and then getting the ball out on the perimeter which lead to wide open shots. I like that offense alot better than wall trying to drive out of control and throwing up wild shots, that lead to fast breaks because... the "POINT GUARD" is under the rim...instead of "point guarding against the easy fast break".

I also like that Seraphin is physical and while send a forearm to another big running through the lane. Harrington is teaching Seraphin how to be the nasty enforcer this team needs. Seraphin is the alpha male on court and harrington is Seraphin passport to being a tough guy. The refs allow seraphin to be an enforcer as long as they see that he is operating under the instructions of Harrington. When they think Seraphin is acting without instructions from Harrington, a long time nba vet, that's when they start tacking him with baby fouls. Again, keeping Harrington on teh court with Seraphin is key to EG not striking out on at least one of his prized acquisitions. When was the last time the wizards had an enforcer on the court? KNowing that we finally have a budding enforcer with Seraphin under harrington actually makes washington games alot more enjoyable. Its nice to finally have alpha male on your team. NOt only is Seraphin an enforcer, but he actually is skilled albeit can't rebound in traffic.

[payitforward]

This may be a crazy idea, but how 'bout waiting until Seraphin has more than one consecutive good game before crowning him The Answer to the Wizards' frontcourt woes? Especially when that one "good" game was not actually good.

So far this season, Seraphin has produced twice as many turnovers per minute as the average player and he's yet to record a single assist. He's fouling at an alarming rate, and he's now no longer rebounding like a SF -- he's rebounding like a PG.

Seraphin's offensive rating (points produced per possession x 100) against Miami was 107 -- an astoundingly BAD number considering he made 4-of-5 from the floor. Why was it so bad? No assists, no offensive rebounds, 2 turnovers (in only 7 possessions).

Right.... Only I wouldn't have counseled waiting for "more than one" good game -- lets wait for the first good game. Yes he went 4-5 and had 2 blocks. But in 15 minutes he managed a single rebound, that's it; he fouled 4 times, and turned it over twice.

Kevin is in his fourth NBA season. I *liked* him as a pick in 2010. He hasn't worked out. He hasn't progressed in any significant way. He's not an acceptable NBA player.

Any number of undrafted bigs from the last few years would be huge upgrades -- a good example would be Greg Smith of Houston (yes... the team that has Darryl Morey as its GM). I'd also certainly rather have Jordan Williams -- whom I assume is playing somewhere in the world (not in the league). Or James Singleton (by a lot!). Or Josh Harrellson (is he even on a team now?).

[Spence]

I'm amazed anyone thinks Kevin Seraphin will ever be a good or useful player. I think he's very inefficient.

[WizarDynasty]

here is my 2 cents.

Im not worried at all about Beal. Its all about him and our O finding some kind of rythm which is hard to do when your 2 so called stars are always hurt or playing like they dont even try to be a Superstar. Either way, I think he looks a ton better and so will the whole O once we get Nene & Gotat together. At that point teams cant double anyone. You can double off or Ariza but he'll do a solid job of making them pay. If not then Web will start soon enough.

As for Wall and the p&r. I disagree with everyone that he's bad at it. Its been my #1 reason why I wanted another coach. I dont think this system is built for Wall. Its built for an unathletic, jump shooting PG. Its nearly impossible for the PG to get to the rim in the halfcourt and the only pass to make off the p&r is a basic pass. Its just like Flip's system. Thats all Billups, Cassell, and guys like that did.

This is not the same p&r system that Westbrook is in or that SVG use to run with Wade all the time when they won the title. Just because its a p&r doesnt mean that everyone runs it the same or teaches it the same. I remember with Flip, the bigs would all leave before they even set the pick. Its not set up to sceen the defender so your PG can attack. Thats what kinda system we should have with Wall and its not all just about his J either

Wall has very poor handles in the half court. Wall can't stop on a dime...and then burst again because he usually bobbles the ball. You have to have excellent ball handling ability and be able to change subtle change speeds in small confined spaces to take advantage of the PNR. Wall Just has one speed, full throttle. He doesn't have the motor coordination to go from 0 to 30 stay at 30....stop on a dime and still keeps his dribble. Wall goes from 0-100..and there is no in between. He is like a car speeding on a hydroplaning on water going 100 miles an hour. If he tries to stop, he is out of control with his handle. He can't make turns at high speeds because he doesn't have great tires to make sharp turns. Wall goes in one line speed and that's all he knows and is comfortable.
Just think of wall has a corvette that always hyrdroplanes in 3 inch water. The car can cut through the water at high speeds but it can't stop and if it tries to stop it is almost always out of control. When wall is tries to go slow, his movements are very coarse, you don't see slight hesitations to throw the defender off, you don't see him completely stop and instantaneously move at right angle to his initial direction with complete ball control especially with his left hand. Just watch some old arenas film and see how much power and balance arenas drives with and how good arenas was able to stop on a dime and start moving sideways with a live dribble. Wall has none of that. Again, to wall, there is not such thing as forcing your defender to speed up and slow down and speed back up again.
He has raw straightline track speed, but once a car is hydroplaning, it can't slow down, ...if wall were an airplane, it would be very easy to intercept him since he easily calculate where he is going to be in a few seconds because he never ever intentionally changes up his speed, because Wall lacks the Ball handling and Athleticism to change his speed"

[AFM]

So he only has #1 and #3 of your 3 Wizards Criteria?

[TGW]

I'm amazed anyone thinks Kevin Seraphin will ever be a good or useful player. I think he's very inefficient.

Some of the stuff being posted the past few hours have been borderline ludicrous.

"Play Ves more because he's tall"
"Start Glen Rice Jr"
"Give Seraphin more touches"

Like these bench scrubs will magically be productive if they get undeserved playing time.

[WizarDynasty]

So he only has #1 and #3 of your 3 Wizards Criteria?

Wall has a quick first step but he can't use it because, he can't slow down after his quick first step. The whole point of a quick first step is that a defender has to rapidly accelerate to keep up with you. A quick first step means that a defender is always a step behind but if you can't stop and let a tackler run right by you....like in football...you let him crash into you because all he wants to do is catch up with you because of your speed. A defender has to go into over drive whenever he is a step behind and forcing a defender who is already in over drive to chase to dramatically stop...is what allows you to get clean looks. Wall may be his man with his first step but the defender is only a step behind him, wall is going to eventually have to slow down to release his shot and the defender is always going to aim where he thinks you are based on your previous speed. Since wall never can change up his speed, he always lets his defender catch up to him by letting his defender gamble and guess where he will be. Teh defender is almost right 95 percent of the time because wall doesn't have the athleticism after his quick first step completely stop his momentum.
Wall ..based on my guess was a track athlete growing up meaning you run in a straight line and you never worried about slowing down. If wall were a football player, like allen iverson, dwade, ---basketball players who are great at taking it to the hole were running backs in middle school, high school...running backs constantly stop and cut back and change direction. Since wall was a track athlete, his body isn't designed to change directions dramatically at full speed.

So wall meets my definition of having a quick first step. He sometimes can finish through contact. He is wizard material. However, for him to be the wizard's franchise player at point guard, he needs to some serious training in terms of ability to stop on dime after going full speed, and then after 2 seconds go right back to full speed. I am dissappointed that I haven't seen an evolution in wall's body control and handle going full speed in the half court setting. The other thing i hate is that he dribbles the ball like a small forward or a shooting guard. You can't make tight turns around corners if you dribble the ball high. In order to be effective on PNR, you have to be able to turn the court tightly and quickly pull up or explode.... wall has no control over the ball when he is turning the corner because the ball is in the air 80 percent of the time and touching his hand only 20 percent of the time because he dribbles the ball high. the closer you dribble the ball to the ground the less time the ball is traveling in the air and more time it is contacting your hand. Wall probably has the worst basketball to hand contact dribbling in the half court. You can't make subtle movements with the ball if its not contacting your hand the majority of the time while you are dribbling. He takes long slow bounces. To me, wall is more a shooting guard in the half court. We are better off making beal the point guard in the half court because you at least see beal using hesitations, and getting low to ground when he drives. Wall thinks he doing a 100 meter dash with an upright stance trying to drive to whole. You can't have a low center of gravity and make tight turns going full speed if are trying to run upright...you have to stay low the ground. You see Beal doing this and he is a shooting guard, wall seems to have no clue.
Again, watching the wizards would be much more enjoyable if Wall actually shows elite ability at being able to stop and go with full body control. If wall were elite, he would be able to go from 0-100 after just one step. Lightening quick arenas step, and if he were franchise player, he would be able to stop on a dime after hitting 100 in just one or two steps and not only have control the basketball but be in a position to read what direction his defender is going at after he has stopped on a dime. This ability would make wall a franchise...ROSE....type player.
Again, I see Beal as a better half court point guard in the future than wall. Scatterbrained, is the word someone used to describe wall...and again---that word perfectly describes his inability to stop his body with superior control of the basketball on a dime. Instead you see wall driving into the lane full speed and unable to stop he just jumps in the air and hopes that an opening will be created when he is in teh air for either a pass or shot.
What should really happen if he were elite is that he would blow past his defender in two steps with his left hand and with his defender a step behind him..stop on a dime...and force his defender to slow down and try to get back into defensive position... while defender is trying to settle his feet and a...you burst forward again for two steps....stop settle down. This how you wear a defender down. There is absolutely zero reason for Billups, with his bad ACL to be able to keep up with wall if wall were a true franchise point guard.
Stop and go in short a confined amount of space is the most deadly weapon of a point guard. A powerful franchise center like shaquile oneal uses his massive frame to knock his defender of balance. An elite point guard, knocks his defender off balance by making his defender rapidly stop..and then forcing him to speed up again. You do this to your defender 3 or 4 times in a row and if your defender is an inferior athlete, you take away his spirit because can't keep up with you unless he fouls you. Wall should have every starting point guard that is guarding him to be in foul trouble. Let's hope someone in Wizard franchise with clout understands this and has a plan to either transform wall into a franchise point guard or we trade an over valued wall for a true franchise talent.

[tontoz]

Watching the game now. So many horrible turnovers. WTF do they do in practice?

[jivelikenice]

I'm amazed anyone thinks Kevin Seraphin will ever be a good or useful player. I think he's very inefficient.

Some of the stuff being posted the past few hours have been borderline ludicrous.

"Play Ves more because he's tall"
"Start Glen Rice Jr"
"Give Seraphin more touches"

Like these bench scrubs will magically be productive if they get undeserved playing time.

Start Glen Rice? I haven't seen that. I've seen the suggestion that he should get some minutes behind Beal and totally agree.

Vesely...I'm in his camp based on my disdain for Booker. My logic is we're getting ZERO offense from him or Vesely so taking that out of the equation, who do I think has a Bette shot of getting ten boards....at this point I him Vesely does based on the rebounding I saw at Eurobasket and in the preseason. If the goal is to DNP and punish him for what he's not, then stop wasting everyone's time and waive him.

Seraphin? I think his current touches are fine. He has to earn more pt by consistently shooting well and showing an ability to pass out of the post. Until then he's a spot player....

[TGW]

Your disdain for Booker doesn't override the fact that Ves was the worst power forward in the league last year statistically. He would have to play exponentially better to even get on Booker's [sad] level. After seeing him during the preseason, I'm pretty sure he's not even at that level yet. So the idea that Ves magically outperforms Booker is probably nonsense. And I agree they should waive him...he's only on the team because the FO doesn't want to admit to their mistake.

I have seen someone (I won't say names) suggest that Glen Rice should start, which is ludicrous. However, I'm not against him getting some minutes. Temple and Maynor stink, and when they are together, it makes for some ugly basketball. I truly can't see Rice being any worse than those two.

[gambitx777]

Your disdain for Booker doesn't override the fact that Ves was/is the worst power forward in the league last year statistically. He would have to play exponentially better to even get on Booker's [sad] level. After seeing him during the preseason, I'm pretty sure he's not even at that level yet. So the idea that Ves magically outperforms Booker is probably nonsense. And I agree they should waive him...he's only on the team because the FO doesn't want to admit their mistake.

I have seen someone (I won't say names) suggest that Glen Rice should start, which is ludicrous. However, I'm not against him getting some minutes. Temple and Maynor stink, and when they are together, it makes for some ugly basketball. I truly can't see Rice being any worse than those two.

This^
Starting him is pretty stupid, but like you said he can not be any worse than Temple or Maynor. I'll admit I was defending the signing when it happened, but he just has not lived up too it. I really wish that we had not cut Marshal and Brown because they both would have been no worse than Temple and Maynor. But I think that as bad as temple and Maynor have been giving there time to rice could not hurt matters.

[deneem4]

I said start glen rice...
for the simple fact ariza and webster play their best when their playing together...not with wall not with beal not with nene, stats from last yr proved with, small ball last night proved it...

What do we have to lose? Its not like we're winning games or even coming close to winning games...miami toyed with us the whole game, regardless if u actually believe we had a chance at the end...when u saw maynor drive for a layup with no contest, u shoulsve known they was playin around, seriously...

And kevin playing the 5 is like booker playing the 5...its shouldn't be happening.

No of us seen rice jr play yet....so u can't say he wont fit...he migh come in and be a mcw for us...