Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[Rafael122]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

[Induveca]

If Love/Irving are back to form next year Cleveland will coast to the Finals.

I think they'll figure out a way to add Wade amusingly. If he would take a 6th man role finally he'd be very useful. For some reason I've convinced myself he's leaving Miami to rejoin James.

[AFM]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

Smith is opting out and resigning with them I hear.
And they don't really need to "improve". With a healthy Love and Irving they are the best team in the league, easily.

[Rafael122]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

Smith is opting out and resigning with them I hear.
And they don't really need to "improve". With a healthy Love and Irving they are the best team in the league, easily.

Yeah but Love and Irving are both made of glass. Cleveland is in a weird spot, they essentially traded 10-12 years of Wiggins for a 2-3 year window for a title. I think most teams would probably do it, especially if you have Lebron on your team but it's pretty risky. Moreso if Love ends up leaving anyway.

[Dat2U]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

What improvement do they need outside of health? Maybe an upgrade over Delly at backup PG because Kyrie is fragile but in all honesty they are loaded and the prohibitive favorite next year assuming they bring everyone back.

[nuposse04]

I expect some decline out LBJ to be honest. His workload fatigue is going to manifest eventually. Of course he'll still remain a top 5 player, but I think he will begin to look more mortal then he has in seasons past. I also think that even with the offensive firepower Love and Irving add, I'm still not totally sold on them has high quality playoff defenders against better playoff opposition. They will be the favorites, but I think they will be beatable, cause we really haven't seen them play healthy against an opponent that is worth a damn.

[fishercob]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

What improvement do they need outside of health? Maybe an upgrade over Delly at backup PG because Kyrie is fragile but in all honesty they are loaded and the prohibitive favorite next year assuming they bring everyone back.

They need an upgrade at backup PG and another wing defender/shooter in the mold of Otto/HBarnes/Danny Green as an upgrade over the Miller/JOnes/Marion troika. Maybe that's Matt Barnes or DUnleavy. Cory Joseph would be killer there.

I expect them to be reaaaaaaaaally good next year.

[Dat2U]

I don't think folks realize how amazing it was that Cleveland could even get to the Championship and push the Warriors the way that they did considering who they were missing and who got heavy minutes in their place. The Cavs had a 7 man rotation basically. And that featured Delladedova... an end of bench guy with remedial offensive skill and J.R. Brick... a known weak-minded gunner who always fizzles in the big games and didn't have a clue defensively. Those two made life basically impossible for LeBron was they were completely overwhelmed except for one game where Delly played way above his head. Then you had James Jones getting major minutes which means he's getting exposed defensively. Who was Cleveland's 2nd best player? Tristan Thompson? Enough said.

Cleveland should be MASSIVE favorites next year.

[Dat2U]

So I'm looking at the Cavs' books. Salary cap is set at $67.1 million. Lebron is opting out but signing another 1 year deal, for about $23 million. Smith is rumored to be opting out, and they've got Shumpert and Thompson to sign:

Lebron - $23
Mozgov - $4.9
Love - $16.7
Irving - $14.7
Miller - $2.8
Varejao - $9.7
Thompson - $15.8

I put Thompson in there as I think he'll get a max contract. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to get at but it seems to me there's very little room for improvement on this roster. Delly might get $4.5 million just because, they are way over the cap and deep in the luxury tax. I don't see the room for improvement...maybe if Love doesn't come back, they'll have a max slot available but if they bring everyone back, I don't see how they'll win a ring.

What improvement do they need outside of health? Maybe an upgrade over Delly at backup PG because Kyrie is fragile but in all honesty they are loaded and the prohibitive favorite next year assuming they bring everyone back.

They need an upgrade at backup PG and another wing defender/shooter in the mold of Otto/HBarnes/Danny Green as an upgrade over the Miller/JOnes/Marion troika. Maybe that's Matt Barnes or DUnleavy. Cory Joseph would be killer there.

I expect them to be reaaaaaaaaally good next year.

Matt Barnes & Mo Williams likely means a repeat trip. They'd be smart to let Delly go unless he's re-signing for dirt cheap to be 3rd stringer. It will be interesting to see what happens with J.R. I think he made a mistake by opting out of $6.4 mil... GMs, coaches around the league don't really trust him, and it's hard to envision him getting a long term deal.

[Kanyewest]

Although without Delly, Steph Curry probably doesn't miss a beat in the NBA Finals.

[Rafael122]

I don't think folks realize how amazing it was that Cleveland could even get to the Championship and push the Warriors the way that they did considering who they were missing and who got heavy minutes in their place. The Cavs had a 7 man rotation basically. And that featured Delladedova... an end of bench guy with remedial offensive skill and J.R. Brick... a known weak-minded gunner who always fizzles in the big games and didn't have a clue defensively. Those two made life basically impossible for LeBron was they were completely overwhelmed except for one game where Delly played way above his head. Then you had James Jones getting major minutes which means he's getting exposed defensively. Who was Cleveland's 2nd best player? Tristan Thompson? Enough said.

Cleveland should be MASSIVE favorites next year.

Ehh, I don't know man. Lebron had Irving for the Bulls series, and the Bulls, predictably couldn't make shots. Then they steamrolled over Atlanta with a one legged Carroll, and an injured Korver. I also think Atlanta were not as good as their record indicated, you need stars in the playoffs. I think what they did was great, it was a great run...but I would literally put all 8 teams that make the West as favorites over Cleveland. The Cavs may be favorites to get back to the Finals, but I don't think they'll win it all.

Bringing Smith, Shump, Delly back isn't going to solve the fact that their bench still sucks. And when I was trying to outline their cap situation, I couldn't think of anyone who isn't on the tail end of their career that would go there for $2.5 million. They're at $88 million, without bringing back Smith/Shump/Delly. Their payroll will blow past $100 mil easily, and for what? They have 4 guys who are legitimate starters, everyone else is a backup.

There's a thread on the main board asking if this was Clevelands best shot at a ring. I think this season and next are, after that you're factoring in things that are out of Lebron's control a) age, he's going to decline, b) a lot of people seem to think the Cavs are in the midst of a dynasty but that is entirely contingent on whether Love stays or goes. If he's out, then I don't see how a 33 year old Lebron can carry this team to a ring, especially when c) everyone will load up in 2016.

[FAH1223]

I don't think folks realize how amazing it was that Cleveland could even get to the Championship and push the Warriors the way that they did considering who they were missing and who got heavy minutes in their place. The Cavs had a 7 man rotation basically. And that featured Delladedova... an end of bench guy with remedial offensive skill and J.R. Brick... a known weak-minded gunner who always fizzles in the big games and didn't have a clue defensively. Those two made life basically impossible for LeBron was they were completely overwhelmed except for one game where Delly played way above his head. Then you had James Jones getting major minutes which means he's getting exposed defensively. Who was Cleveland's 2nd best player? Tristan Thompson? Enough said.

Cleveland should be MASSIVE favorites next year.

Ehh, I don't know man. Lebron had Irving for the Bulls series, and the Bulls, predictably couldn't make shots. Then they steamrolled over Atlanta with a one legged Carroll, and an injured Korver. I also think Atlanta were not as good as their record indicated, you need stars in the playoffs. I think what they did was great, it was a great run...but I would literally put all 8 teams that make the West as favorites over Cleveland. The Cavs may be favorites to get back to the Finals, but I don't think they'll win it all.

Bringing Smith, Shump, Delly back isn't going to solve the fact that their bench still sucks. And when I was trying to outline their cap situation, I couldn't think of anyone who isn't on the tail end of their career that would go there for $2.5 million. They're at $88 million, without bringing back Smith/Shump/Delly. Their payroll will blow past $100 mil easily, and for what? They have 4 guys who are legitimate starters, everyone else is a backup.

There's a thread on the main board asking if this was Clevelands best shot at a ring. I think this season and next are, after that you're factoring in things that are out of Lebron's control a) age, he's going to decline, b) a lot of people seem to think the Cavs are in the midst of a dynasty but that is entirely contingent on whether Love stays or goes. If he's out, then I don't see how a 33 year old Lebron can carry this team to a ring, especially when c) everyone will load up in 2016.

Also, Mozgov will be a free agent after next year and will get paid.

Next season is their best shot IMO.

[nate33]

I really think Cleveland is better off with defensive rebounder/role players like Mosgov and Thompson as bigs than they are with Love. Good offense/bad defense players like Love can only maximize their value if they get the ball a lot on offense, and that's not going to happen on a team with Lebron and Kyrie.

If they could trade Love for a high quality, two-way shooting guard like Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal, that roster would be unbeatable.

[mhd]

I think Okc are the favs. If healthy they are loaded. Westbrook, Kd, and Serge are a perfect trio. Lantern gives them a bear inside, and they have Adams as a rebounder defender. They need another wing/combo guard, but I think they are better than Cle.

[Ruzious]

I really think Cleveland is better off with defensive rebounder/role players like Mosgov and Thompson as bigs than they are with Love. Good offense/bad defense players like Love can only maximize their value if they get the ball a lot on offense, and that's not going to happen on a team with Lebron and Kyrie.

If they could trade Love for a high quality, two-way shooting guard like Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal, that roster would be unbeatable.

But unless money is a problem (which it could be at some point), they don't have to choose - there are 96 minutes for Mozgov, Thompson, and Love. Love would have made a HUGE difference against GS - to the point that I think Cleveland would have won the series considering how GS played nowhere near their best. His ability to spread the floor and pass was desperately needed - Cleveland had 14 assists in the last game.

[LyricalRico]

I really think Cleveland is better off with defensive rebounder/role players like Mosgov and Thompson as bigs than they are with Love. Good offense/bad defense players like Love can only maximize their value if they get the ball a lot on offense, and that's not going to happen on a team with Lebron and Kyrie.

If they could trade Love for a high quality, two-way shooting guard like Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal, that roster would be unbeatable.

But unless money is a problem (which it could be at some point), they don't have to choose - there are 96 minutes for Mozgov, Thompson, and Love. Love would have made a HUGE difference against GS - to the point that I think Cleveland would have won the series considering how GS played nowhere near their best. His ability to spread the floor and pass was desperately needed - Cleveland had 14 assists in the last game.

Eh, I gotta go with nate. Moving Love for a comparable piece at another positions would be better than having him in a 3-man rotation IMO. Especially if they got another decent piece out of the deal that still helps their bench.

Love for *gulp* Nene and Beal?

[Ruzious]

I really think Cleveland is better off with defensive rebounder/role players like Mosgov and Thompson as bigs than they are with Love. Good offense/bad defense players like Love can only maximize their value if they get the ball a lot on offense, and that's not going to happen on a team with Lebron and Kyrie.

If they could trade Love for a high quality, two-way shooting guard like Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal, that roster would be unbeatable.

But unless money is a problem (which it could be at some point), they don't have to choose - there are 96 minutes for Mozgov, Thompson, and Love. Love would have made a HUGE difference against GS - to the point that I think Cleveland would have won the series considering how GS played nowhere near their best. His ability to spread the floor and pass was desperately needed - Cleveland had 14 assists in the last game.

Eh, I gotta go with nate. Moving Love for a comparable piece at another positions would be better than having him in a 3-man rotation IMO. Especially if they got another decent piece out of the deal that still helps their bench.

Love for *gulp* Nene and Beal?

Yeah, who needs a 36 minute a game player. Cleveland's offense in the finals - other than Lebron - was... pathetic - at best. They clearly needed a player like Love. Beal's going to be a heckuva player, but Love IS a great player - and now is their window. You can't be objective and think Cleveland would be better off with Beal than Love, imo.

[gambitx777]

The cav's probably would have won a ring at full strength, it was pretty much LeBron and a bunch of guys, and that has never worked. The problem for the cav's is that teams in the east will be better next year, The pistons, the Bucks, The Heat, Indiana, Boston. will we be one of them? We need to get better, we need to do something or we will be left behind.

[fishercob]

I really think Cleveland is better off with defensive rebounder/role players like Mosgov and Thompson as bigs than they are with Love. Good offense/bad defense players like Love can only maximize their value if they get the ball a lot on offense, and that's not going to happen on a team with Lebron and Kyrie.

If they could trade Love for a high quality, two-way shooting guard like Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal, that roster would be unbeatable.

But unless money is a problem (which it could be at some point), they don't have to choose - there are 96 minutes for Mozgov, Thompson, and Love. Love would have made a HUGE difference against GS - to the point that I think Cleveland would have won the series considering how GS played nowhere near their best. His ability to spread the floor and pass was desperately needed - Cleveland had 14 assists in the last game.

Eh, I gotta go with nate. Moving Love for a comparable piece at another positions would be better than having him in a 3-man rotation IMO. Especially if they got another decent piece out of the deal that still helps their bench.

Love for *gulp* Nene and Beal?

I do not think Cleveland can realistically hope to trade Love. They would essentially have to dupe him into opt in so they could then move him in a deal that suited their needs (is there any historical precedent for this?). If Love's camp sees that Cleveland wants to move on from him, he'll just opt out and sign somewhere as a FA.

[fishercob]

If Love/Irving are back to form next year Cleveland will coast to the Finals.

I think they'll figure out a way to add Wade amusingly. If he would take a 6th man role finally he'd be very useful. For some reason I've convinced myself he's leaving Miami to rejoin James.

Look at Irving's injury history -- back to the 11 games he played at Duke -- and tell me what "back to form" means. This was his healthiest season and he could hardly walk before the knee fracture. The guys may just have bad genes when it comes to staying healthy.