payitforward wrote:stilldropin20 wrote:^^^hey libs(mods), we should do a poll. I think Nate, Popper, and myself are the only conservatives and trumpsters on here.
You may be the only Trump supporters here, but as far as I can tell you are certainly not a conservative -- not in any sense of the word I've ever seen used anywhere.
Two key elements define conservatism (& as is no surprise they can be in conflict with one another). The first is a belief in the inherent value of existing social practices, traditions & institutions. Not necessarily all of them, but overall conservatism gives them great importance.
In "modern" conservatism (i.e. beginning in the enlightenment & powered by the industrial revolution), the thinker most closely associated with developing/defending this point of view was Edmund Burke. Especially in his brilliant
Reflections on the Revolution in France (an anti-revolution tract), which you can download at
https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/burke/revfrance.pdf.
The other key element defining conservatism is a belief in Free Enterprise, based -- as most people know -- on the model elaborated in Adam Smith's
The Wealth of Nations, which you can download at
https://www.ibiblio.org/ml/libri/s/SmithA_WealthNations_p.pdf.
Note that in the phrase "free enterprise," the word "enterprise" did not & does not mean "business" -- it refers to any & all human undertakings. The point is maximum freedom (of action, movement, association, etc.) to the individual. Given your stated desire to institute a heavy tax on the very wealthy, which violates both these tenets in a single notion, you aren't a conservative. Then again, neither is Donald Trump, so your support for him isn't contradictory. It's just the usual kind of support for a demagogue, which allows for incoherent ideas for policy -- b/c "coherent policy" is not what defines the demagogue or his tenure.
Popper may be a conservative, but I haven't read any posts from Nate that indicate him being one. In truth, I don't understand Nate's POV on social/political issues & would be pleased to read a post from him that helped me understand them -- or to get link to an essay by someone else that is a touchstone for Nate's philosophy.
(I do get some elements of your POV, Nate, e.g. "nationalism," but even that one I don't fully comprehend)
stilldropin20 wrote:Given that it is only us 3 we should have a poll and see if any of the mud you have flung on trump has swayed any of us and if we would change our minds and votes.... I mean either you guys are bat shxt crazy or you actually think there is a chance you change our mind, right? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are trying to change our minds and therefore swing our votes your way. So in the interest of measuring your effectiveness you should poll us each week and we can give you some feedback as to which kind of mudslinging is most effective and registers the most conviction to change our votes and you can spread the word around as to how to polish up your "message."
As usual from you, this is stupidity imagining itself as clever....
I doubt anyone here cares enough about what you think, stilldropin, to devote any effort at all towards changing your "mind." &, as you don't give much evidence of having a POV w/ any internal consistency or logic, there's not much to engage with. It's more like being jaw-droppingly amazed at the silly stuff you write.
I'm also quite sure no one imagines he can change Nate's POV -- for what I'd say is the opposite reason. His POV seems pretty thoroughly worked out, not the arbitrary concatenation of BS that you evince. Yet at the same time (as I point out above) its roots, as it were, are not exposed here.
From your list of three, that leaves Popper: I certainly hope Popper doesn't think everything everyone else writes here is meant to pile on him!
I would add as well that I wouldn't be surprised if some people here did characterize themselves as "conservative" -- yet have no interest at all in supporting Donald Trump.
Here are my basic personal political beliefs and ideas:
let me preface by saying that no politician nor political platform serves me wholly. And I believe the problems in this country and around the world run so far and so deep that it is impossible to "fix" the USA and the world in any given decade. A multi decade, perhaps even a century long endeavor is needed.
And because the entire world is so phunked up that I am forced to be a nationalist. The United States of America is the closest place on earth to real freedom. real choice. real equality. We almost strictly have one major problem: wealth inequality. All inequality is born of wealth inequality. And we have that problem because our system, our constitution never dreamt of the kind of wealth we now have where politicians are too easily bought and paid for by uber wealth indivduals and global corporations and to protect both their national and global interests.
1. Socially, I'm very liberal with a somewhat conservative. I absolutely believe in freedom and equality for all races, creeds, tribes, genders, ages, sexual preferences. And i also believe in reparations for those that have been robbed of their freedom in the past or have suffered undue hardship that were contrived from unfair and unequal policy.
Specifically:
--On "life," I'm pro choice prior to 5 months. Once a baby can (live) if removed from the womb, i look at it as murder and would charge both doctors and pregnant woman with murder for abortions after 5 months. other than that I am 100% pro choice on just about every single other choice a human being can make. Do what you want to make you happy is what i believe...until what you are doing is reasonably impinging on the right of your neighbor to make his or her own decisions for their life in their pursuit of their version of happiness. I firmly believe in the rights of the individual and that includes having sex and marrying whoever you want and doing drugs all day if that is what you want to do. But if you are harming others as decided by our nation of laws then your freedom can be removed. I believe in majority rule to make laws. I believe our constitution is the best constitution on the planet. I believe in rules. I believe in laws. So as to prevent anarchy.
(outside of the box):
--I want significant reparations paid to african americans who had ancestors that were slaves(must prove to be descendants of slaves). They earned it! The united states government should buy each and every descendent of slaves a home of their choice in a location of their choice (up to a value of $500K and tax free for 50 years) and provide the best education money can buy for the next 2-3 generations of those decedents of slaves. (from there they are on their own just like the rest of us.) The united states government should foot the bill. AKA the tax payer who benefits from the free labor those slaves put in the fields which allowed this country to afford to break free from European rule.
--I want even larger and more significant reparations paid to native americans. native americans had the entire country stolen from them. They deserve the most in return and their are only 5-8 million native americans left. (full disclosure I'm part native american). This is for all decedents with genetic proof. Native americans had this entire country stolen from them. The only fair thing to do for Native americans is some new version of reopening of the homestead act where decedents of native americans can go claim 50 acres(approx value 5 million) of any farm land or unsettled land or any city parcel worth 5 million or less. Not unlike what is happening in south africa where white farmers will give up their land. I support it in south africa and I support a similar thing here in the united states. I believe this is the right thing to do. And the united states government should foot the bill. AKA the tax payers who have benefitted from the looting of this land and the killing off of the native caretakers.
--furthermore if we accomplish these 2 goals above then i want the word racism struck from our vocabulary. I am sick and tired of everyone claiming racism just because they dont get their way or things dont work out for them politically. Let's level the gottamn playing field once and for all, provide and real and equal opportunity for all and move the phuck on!!!! after reparations like this, if you are not smart enough nor work hard enough to pass down knowledge to your children to also have success then so be it. racism will have nothing to do with it.
****--
I believe that the biggest disparity we face as a nation is not based on gender nor race but is actually wealth inequality. That is why i firmly believe in a more equal and fair distribution of wealth. I believe that a man or woman can make as much money as they can or want (go make a billion!!) . I support that!! But they should not be allowed to give their children too much of a head start. I would implement an 90% death tax on all individual wealth over $5Million USD 2018. all estates, all trusts, all foundations, all corps, all bonds, all farms, all small businesses, everything. I would tax it all. In 2-3 generations all of the wealth will pretty much be equally distributed. No one would be born on 3rd base if i had my way. we would all be born at the same plate facing the same pitcher with the same bat. At most, some people would be born on 1st base. I could live with that.
---i believe that we should all have equal access to an excellent education. But we should not waste money educating dumb people to be rocket scientists. Not everyone is going to be a rock star, nba player, nor a doctor.
--i believe in equal access to equal health care to all (THAT WORK!!)...you work, you get it. You dont work? You dont get it.
Sounds pretty good, no? Sounds fair no? Sounds somewhat like an extemely liberal bernieish type platform, no?
So how the phuck do i support donald trump!!??????????
Because it will take decades, if not a century to implement anything like i describe above. and you liberals dont understand the first step to some kind of "equal" utopia that i describe above.
The 1st step to creating any kind of "equal" wealth utopia is addressing the repatriation of american wealth.
We can never redistribute wealth that is held outside of the united states!!!!!!!!!So you (FIRST)HAVE to bring the wealth back. first and foremost...if all of the wealthy people can simply move their wealth oversees what good does a death tax do? We have to bring the wealth back!! Thats is step 1!!! that requires lower taxes for corporations, and strong real estate and stock markets. As well as safe markets. You bring the wealth back with honey.
Step 2 is to crush economies and markets outside of the united states banking system. This will cause more and more individuals to invest in our markets. You make people and corporations become US citizens in order to invest in our markets. (which makes them subject to our laws. Might sound harsh but the real purpose is to bring each and every nation into our central banking system. not to crush them. those that refuse? They get crushed! 2 reasons. 1. We control which countries get what and for what? you want to buy military weapons? Nope! You want to invest in your infrastructure? yep! 2. We can pursue american wealth being held oversees. If billionaire corps and individuals dont want to be seperated from their wealth? Fine, you can not sell your products in american markets nor any of the markets of our allies. if you do we hit your products with taxes just as harsh as the death tax. This should repatriate more and more wealth.
Eventually, the plan is to tax that wealth severely for leaving US markets. So as to keep it here. Then...over time...we implement a death tax.
Simply put: I dont believe in billionaire. I dont think anyone should ever have more than $5million USD 2018. its too much power over those worth $5k and less. but i accept that we can NOT also kill the human spirit and drive to accumulate wealth. Working hard is a good thing. Everyone deserves a chance to be a millionaire IMO. Its nice. But we should not have people worth over $5M. You can buy too much. Too much power in one place that allows one to become even wealthier. A severe death tax solves a lot of that imo.
--lastly, fractional reserve lending is the root of many evils and has been since "money" was created. The goldsmiths learned thousands of years ago that as whole, people who save "money" (gold) only take out about 10% at any given time. So the goldsmiths learned that they could use up to 90% of their reserves to invest. This became the basis of fractional reserve lending. Eventually, gold was replaced with talley sticks and paper money. Banks got wealthier and wealthier. By using everyone else money. But the banker was never safe. They would accumulate more and more gold through out Europe only to get looted and raided during times of war and upheaval.
---So the bankers learned how to keep their wealth. They created a central banking system where they mostly lent to nation states. Bonds were created( a paper trail to track wealth in case of war and looting) as the bankers became central bankers and lent money to royal families and eventually governments ("by and for the people"). Bankers learned to be less centralized and dependant upon one country in case of war. and instead learned to create branches of their banks in various nation states. So London, Frankfurt, Paris, Austria, naples, and Vienna all had a branch of the same bank. If either country invaded and looted the other, the banks were safe because they funded both sides of the invasion and the "winning nation state" agreed to pay off the debt of the loser.<--which was a different branch of the same bank. bankers in effect picked winners and losers of war based on credit made available. And bankers often decided the winners based on who was more likely to pay off the debts of both sides of the war. But get this...the entire war was funded with fractional reserve lending. MOney the bank did not even have or own. Instead it was based on lending 90% of its reserves to its local national government and in fact the bankers would lend money to neighboring nation state banks<--giving an unfair edge to any given nation state that the bank prefers (likely because tax burdens are lessoned to the bank) or because the bank's money itself was safers in any given nation state.
banks and bankers accumulated massive amounts of wealth due to fractional reserve lending. The bankers themselves became independantly wealthy and no longer even needed the reserves of their patrons to borrow against. They had their own money. And systematically began to lend their money out to private individuals and corporations. They began to "fund" things like big agriculture(tobacco, cotton) here in the united states and the shipping of goods around the world. Multiple wars, as well as the weaponry to fight such wars. the entire industrial revolution, the rail road business, the oil business, gold mining and business, most of the world's the press, the diamond mining and distribution business, the coal mining and distribution business, copper mining and business and even more banking ventures like our entire banking system here in the United States. and eventually the entire globe's central banking system. and eventually the entiree globe's technological revolution and everything you see and do today. It was all created on fractional reserve lending. Your money and your ancestors gold sitting a vault somewhere and lent out to others to create all that you see, hear, produve, use and consume today.
^^^ i bring up this "banking" and fractional reserve lending...because we must follow the money. To tax it we must first find it. To find it we must understand it. To understand it we must talk about it. Once we start talking about it we will all come to understand that all of the inequities on earth as we know them and see them are all based on wealth inequality. And all wealth inequality is rooted in the availablity (or lack thereof) of credit.
Furthermore, we have a national debt "issue" because we have a fractional reserve lending issue. If goverments, and therefore citizens were made to pay the bills up front for any goverment provided service or war then we would have a lot less calling for war...and a lot less calling for entitlements that we can not afford.
Imagine, in 2001...to start the gulf war 2...taxes had to be increased to 90%??? Imagine that for a second...to pay for the war...who would want that war??????? Anyone?????????? Fractional reserve lending allows us to borrow to pay for that war.
if we truly want fairness and equality...then we are going to have to deal with the entire central banking system and fractional reserve lending at some point. But we are decades if not a century away from a collective consciousness and awareness where americans even understand it let alone citizens of much less educated and developed nations.
^^^^what i find interesting is that most hard core muslim nations already understand the evil of the banking system as we know it. And they are hard core against it as they are hard core against usury. So whenever the united states decides to wake up...the mulims are already there. And there are billions of them.
But this (now) american banking system tail that wags that dog. Because it is in fact fractional reserve lending that allows us to have the greatest military power on earth without the means to actually pay for it. Which allows us to control much of the world's economies, banking systems, and therefore local politics. So its a conundrum of conundrums.
We got work to do. it will take decades. But the first step is repatriating wealth!!!
******Trump's tax plan is doing that!!
*****Donald trump has either stumbled and bumbled or thoughtfully figured his way onto a harsh reality. The entire world is waking up to how much wealth the entire banking community holds. Some nation(s) is going to capture that wealth. It may as well be us. To do just that we need a strong national identity. We need to repatriot that wealth as well as lure other international wealth into our markets. To do just that we must weaken international markets (scare the wealth back here). and then we (the united states of america) decide who gets what. I dont trust any other constitution or government to get this done nor any other group of human beings. I keep saying we are all in this together. Its a shame that all I keep seeing from liberal on here is complaining about almost non-issues. Issues that will do nothing to recapture the world's wealth from the ruling elite that hold it and use it to control us. That is exactly what they want!! All of us bickering over non issues!!!!
Love him or hate him, trump has the first step right. And thats why the entire world is standing up and taking notice. thats why the entire media of the entire globe is working against him. That's why pundits who get paid
millions to keep the
billions exactly where it is are fighting this.
Trump is doing the right things. This is the proper order of events. repatriation of wealth is the "first order."
like i said, its a full rebuild.
