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2025 Draft Thread - Part 4

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The Consiglieri
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#201 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:06 pm

DCZards wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
Benjammin wrote:My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..
Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?
What they see is a lot more data, a lot more film, and a lot more live performances when it comes to these draft picks.

And then they pick Troy Brown, and Corey Kispert, and Johnny Davis and Rui Hachimura, with 4 of 5 picks in tanking miserable MOR styled crap years. I agree they see all that, but appeal to authority isn't terribly helpful either. For all they see, they make the same misses we all make, and sometimes worse (this entire board had Halliburton as what, the #3 or 4 prospect in '20? I had Deni ahead of him, but Halliburton next on my board). These guys have more information, but that can also lead to getting lost in the basics right in front of them at times too, and it can also lead to thinking your scouting is better then basic math like NFL GM's (who still think their genius trumps having more draft picks)......

The biggest thing I think they have that we don't is as complete as possible dossier's and reports on player mental make ups, off the court commitment vs stupidity and immaturity, ability to work with others, study etc....along with medicals. Those are the key advantages over us couch internet scouts. The Med reports, and the due diligence interviews with the player and people who knew the player to get background on who they are as people (which is why I love the stories about Tre being a super hard worker at his craft, and hate pretty much everything that's come out of Bailey's mouth, and his team's mouth the past 2 months).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#202 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:18 pm

tontoz wrote:We shouldn't be obsessing so much about Ace. Bottom line is that he wasn't on the board when we picked.

The important issue is whether we picked the best guy available and I think we did.

Well, lol, they drafted the one guy you wanted above all others, and believed would be the absolute best option possible if we fell to 5 or 6 lol, so of course you don't want to be bothered with Ace talk lol, you got your guy. I most definitely did not get my guy, and now I'm left with praying non-stop that guys like you are right about Tre, and suddenly, mysteriously, he will start caring about things he's literally never given 2 ----'s about his entire prospect/recruit based career.

That bottom line doesn't work. We'll always know we could have potentially traded up, we could have lost that final game of the season, we could have not won 3x as many games as Utah the final 3rd of the season. Instead, exactly what I predicted (a player having a 50% chance of falling out of a draft with a big 4, to 5) happened, and we blew it and a consensus #2 overall recruit and top 4 prospect in a perceived 4 player draft was picked 1 selection in front of us after falling.

On the positive side, said player has been a total mess this entire draft process and if that's reflective of who he is as a professional, maybe we dodged a bullet, but honestly, saying "stop obsessing" is ridiculous, when you got your guy, and a lot of people on this board got the exact opposite. People will stop bitching if Tre is a grand slam. We can see from the Deni thread, that even years after a decision is a made, people can want to rain fire down on a front office for doing the opposite of what they wanted for a player long since gone....so, it's kind of pointless to suggest people should stop being bothered about this entire draft nightmare from hell. I know I'm never getting over us being ----ed in every way conceivable this entire draft process, but Utah tanking there way ahead of us by a buzzer beater that we all know we'd never hit in a million years with any playoff game on the line, to the lottery gifting the shining gems of this draft to a finalist from the previous NBA Championship, a perennial contender to win the East, and a team that already won the biggest lottery prize of the previous 15 years, while all 3 of the worst teams tumbled down the boards and were totally ----ed, to my theory of "stupid reaches happening with regularity in slots 2-4" making 5 the best worst case slot in a 4 team draft, proving true.

What will make me get over this horror show of the past 4 months will be Tre hitting the ceiling of all possibilities, and us tanking our way to a top 2 pick in '26, if we don't land a top 4 at worst in '26, yeah, I think I will even be out during the draft process for the first time in nearly 20 years when we had a first....so much depends on a red wheel barrow.....


I don't blame the FO at all on any of this (other than flouting the anti-tanking rules and daring the NBA to do anything about it, clearly the NBA didn't lift a finger to punish Utah after all), they've done the mightiest job possible with an empty cupboard and no options when they took over....it just sucks that we can never get an ounce of luck EVER when we need it, 45 years into this miserable journey to nowhere.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#203 » by tontoz » Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:25 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
tontoz wrote:We shouldn't be obsessing so much about Ace. Bottom line is that he wasn't on the board when we picked.

The important issue is whether we picked the best guy available and I think we did.

Well, lol, they drafted the one guy you wanted above all others, and believed would be the absolute best option possible if we fell to 5 or 6 lol, so of course you don't want to be bothered with Ace talk lol, you got your guy. .



Your memory isn't very good. I said this several times previously and will repeat it again here that I had Ace ahead of Tre, but the difference wasn't much.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#204 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:03 pm

My general view of the roster post draft...

I know this won't be the actual rotation, buts its how I more or less see things.


Starting 5

Bub, Tre, Bilal, Kyshawn, Sarr


2nd Unit/Vets

Smart, CJ, Kispert, Middleton, Olynyck


3rd String

AJ, Colby Jones/Watkins (2-way), Riley, Champagnie, Tristan
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#205 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:07 pm

tontoz wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:
tontoz wrote:We shouldn't be obsessing so much about Ace. Bottom line is that he wasn't on the board when we picked.

The important issue is whether we picked the best guy available and I think we did.

Well, lol, they drafted the one guy you wanted above all others, and believed would be the absolute best option possible if we fell to 5 or 6 lol, so of course you don't want to be bothered with Ace talk lol, you got your guy. .



Your memory isn't very good. I said this several times previously and will repeat it again here that I had Ace ahead of Tre, but the difference wasn't much.


Is my memory wrong that you were an enormous Tre fan throughout the past what, four months? I did turn 50 a few years ago, so maybe some of my brain has gone on holiday.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#206 » by tontoz » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:19 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
tontoz wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:Well, lol, they drafted the one guy you wanted above all others, and believed would be the absolute best option possible if we fell to 5 or 6 lol, so of course you don't want to be bothered with Ace talk lol, you got your guy. .



Your memory isn't very good. I said this several times previously and will repeat it again here that I had Ace ahead of Tre, but the difference wasn't much.


Is my memory wrong that you were an enormous Tre fan throughout the past what, four months? I did turn 50 a few years ago, so maybe some of my brain has gone on holiday.



I posted about Tre more than anyone for sure, because I felt he gave us a good fallback option if we got screwed by the lottery, which we did.

But he was 4th on my board behind Cooper/Dylan/Ace.

In the first reply in this thread I reiterated that I had Ace ahead of Tre.

tontoz wrote:
Yeah trading up for Ace isn't an easy call when you can stay put and pick Tre. I had Ace ahead of Tre due to size and defense ,but not by much.


Tre's floor is much higher. He is a high IQ player with more polished skills, which are far beyond his years.

It is funny that I posted about Tre so much during the season that The Consiglieri started making fun of me about it, and now he is actually the pick.

The games will definitely be more watchable now. Tre can put on a show.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#207 » by AFM » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:22 pm

The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#208 » by WallToWall » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:25 pm

One thing's for sure... Dawkins and company are leaving no stone unturned in search of good players. Foreign leagues, D2, etc, are all sources. What a difference from what we suffered through prior to Dawkins and company!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#209 » by J-Ves » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:27 pm

AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will

It’s hard to remember you were a Tre guy when 90% of your posts were about DDQ
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#210 » by AFM » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:30 pm

J-Ves wrote:
AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will

It’s hard to remember you were a Tre guy when 90% of your posts were about DDQ


I was a Tre at 6 DDQ at 12 via trade guy. I love Tre but his pockets aren't fatter than Dairy Queen and he doesn't turn the low post to a scary scene. But his 3 ball is very mean.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#211 » by AFM » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:32 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#212 » by AFM » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:33 pm

holy **** I didnt even realize that was Chris Miller
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#213 » by tontoz » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:45 pm

AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will


Dat hardly mentioned Tre while he was playing. I don't think Dat was watching the games as they happened. The first time I saw Dat mention him he was questioning Tre's ability to get separation off the dribble.

It was really in the last two months that Dat got on the Tre bandwagon.

I was posting about Tre's games as they happened and the board's general response seemed to be pretty muted.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#214 » by doclinkin » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:51 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:I think it was Dobr(o)'s take yesterday that they are balancing prospect infusions with the objective of finishing bottom 4 next year so we don't lose our pick, and hopefully worst, in a draft that is for now, 4 deep in perceived future star prospects. Adding players that continually lift up the floor puts that pick at risk.


No respect I tell ya. Cite ya sources.



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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#215 » by Mizerooskie » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:51 pm

Loved Ace, and wouldn't be surprised at all of he's the best player in this draft.

But it's tough to complain about anything Dawkins & co. did -- they purportedly had a trade in place with Charlotte to get Ace and Ainge torpedoed it.

That said, I've been a Tre Johnson guy for a while. He might have been might favorite prospect for the Wiz, given his skill set and intangibles. I like to bet on guys that are dogs, and Tre is one on and off the court. His mentality is Kobe-esque.

FWIW, he's the betting second-favorite for ROY on a bunch of books/sites, if that sort of thing means anything to you.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#216 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:53 pm

dobrojim wrote:
WallToWall wrote:Belmont forward Jonathan Pierre has been signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.
I like this pickup. I think he could be like Champagne.
https://youtu.be/nNdiMJ84x7Y?si=V0f0pANg4YypN0kr


PiF is not crazy in his praise of Champagnie. He was
consistently one of our most productive players this year. He consistently helped us to be competitive
even if we didn't win many games. ...

Actually, he was w/o doubt our *most* productive player. Followed by Holmes, Colby Jones, Valanciunas, & Bagley.

b/c Justin played 1350 minutes, we can have some reasonable confidence in future performance. Jones logged only 385 minutes for us, hence we can be hopeful about his future, but that's as far as it goes.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#217 » by AFM » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:53 pm

tontoz wrote:
AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will


Dat hardly mentioned Tre while he was playing. I don't think Dat was watching the games as they happened. The first time I saw Dat mention him he was questioning Tre's ability to get separation off the dribble.

It was really in the last two months that Dat got on the Tre bandwagon.

I was posting about Tre's games as they happened and the board's general response seemed to be pretty muted.


My bad I had a biden moment
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#218 » by Dat2U » Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:59 pm

AFM wrote:
tontoz wrote:
AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will


Dat hardly mentioned Tre while he was playing. I don't think Dat was watching the games as they happened. The first time I saw Dat mention him he was questioning Tre's ability to get separation off the dribble.

It was really in the last two months that Dat got on the Tre bandwagon.

I was posting about Tre's games as they happened and the board's general response seemed to be pretty muted.


My bad I had a biden moment


Yeah i don't get to watch too many games live anymore. Most of my hardcore research on prospects begins around tourney time.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#219 » by DCZards » Sat Jun 28, 2025 5:06 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:Well, lol, they drafted the one guy you wanted above all others, and believed would be the absolute best option possible if we fell to 5 or 6 lol, so of course you don't want to be bothered with Ace talk lol, you got your guy. I most definitely did not get my guy, and now I'm left with praying non-stop that guys like you are right about Tre, and suddenly, mysteriously, he will start caring about things he's literally never given 2 ----'s about his entire prospect/recruit based career.

That bottom line doesn't work. We'll always know we could have potentially traded up, we could have lost that final game of the season, we could have not won 3x as many games as Utah the final 3rd of the season. Instead, exactly what I predicted (a player having a 50% chance of falling out of a draft with a big 4, to 5) happened, and we blew it and a consensus #2 overall recruit and top 4 prospect in a perceived 4 player draft was picked 1 selection in front of us after falling.

You don’t know enough about Tre Johnson to determine what he does or does not give “2 ——-‘s” about. Your awareness of what he cares about is superficial at best.

Some of y’all need to stop judging these young men’s character as if you personally know them.

And what is this stuff about this being a 4 player draft? I’ll give you Flagg and Bailey, but after that Johnson has just as good a chance as anybody of being the third best player from this week’s draft.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 4 

Post#220 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jun 28, 2025 5:54 pm

AFM wrote:The big Johnson guys were Dat and I. Dat has been on him all season. We're also the posters with the biggest johnsons so do with that what you will

And Ton Toz, for sure, you were the big Dairy Queen guy.

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