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GT: Knicks @ Wizards 02-19-08

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

Who wins

Knicks
2
50%
Wizards
2
50%
 
Total votes: 4

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Post#201 » by LyricalRico » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:03 am

fishercob wrote:Terrible loss. Gutless performance to a man by the Wizards. WIth our record and our schedule, everyone on this team had to take it upon themselves to make sure we won this game and the team failed miserably when it mattered most.


You'd think that with all the time they had off that EJ could get them ready to play one of the worst teams in basketball on their own home floor. Guess not. I also wonder if they would have been as lifeless if they'd won those games on the West coast that EJ stole from them.

As you can imagine, I blame EJ.
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Post#202 » by miller31time » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:04 am

When your team is down Arenas and Butler (2 of 3 players on the Wizards roster who are capable of creating offense for themselves from the top of the key), and Daniels is sucking it up and literally handing the game to the other team, AND when the 3rd player who can create for himself is currently having a standout game where nearly all of his iso plays have led to made field goals, the ONLY reasonable decision is to take Daniels out and put Young in.

The Knicks wouldn't have gone on a 19-1 run with Young in the game, and that I can guarantee you.
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Post#203 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:06 am

fishercob wrote:
Now to those of you who think that Eddie's the main reason for this loss, you're morons. The notion that Gil bailed Eddie out is akin to Michael Jordan bailing out Phil Jackson, and Magic bailing out Pat Riley.. It's a players league. Players play. Players win.

I dont' think it's that simple. We have seen all season that EJ can't draw up a last-minute play where we even get a decent look. It's always a terrible shot. Always!

I can live with running a play to Jamison in the post and then having Jamison missing. That's a coach getting the job done but the playing not executing. Our problem is that we can't even get the ball to a player to even have a chance at making a play. That's bad coaching. Plain and simple.
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Post#204 » by fishercob » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:07 am

LyricalRico wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You'd think that with all the time they had off that EJ could get them ready to play one of the worst teams in basketball on their own home floor. Guess not. I also wonder if they would have been as lifeless if they'd won those games on the West coast that EJ stole from them.

As you can imagine, I blame EJ.


Well I thought you were smarter than that, but I've been wrong before. You're telling me professional athletes -- and handsomely paid ones, at that -- need to be cajoled in to showing up to do their jobs? Nonsense.
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Post#205 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:07 am

hands11 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



How can people limit EJs mistakes to just two? He made plenty of line up mistakes.

And for Haywood or Blatche, I keep saying it, you need them together, not one or the other.


We know you keep saying it...you keep on reminding us. However, Blatche and Haywood were in together at times tonight and they still looked like crap. Blatche was particularly invisible tonight. In fact, although I am not a big proponent of small ball, we actually played better tonight when we did go small.
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Post#206 » by Wizards2Lottery » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:08 am

The game shouldn't have gone to OT. We had it in a bag until AD **** it up.

Then Eddie drew up the dumbest most predictable play to end the game. A jumper ISO for AD?????????

Whoever thinks Eddie didn't lose us this game is joking. Sure he wasn't the full culprit like most of the time, but this guy has no idea how to call a good play out of a timeout. Its always an ISO. Never a drawn up play that gets one of our guys a good look.
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Post#207 » by hands11 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:09 am

nate33 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


C'mon Hands. Blatche was awful tonight. The offense was totally stagnant with the two bigs alongside the thoroughly ineffective AD. I thought EJ made the right move bringing in a third guard and moving Jamison to PF. We didn't really suffer on the defensive glass because of it and New York wasn't scoring on the block.

The problem was that he had the wrong 3 guards in the game. Instead of AD, Mason, Stevenson; he should have had Mason, Stevenson, Young.


We'll have to disagree. Put the bigs in and feed them the dame ball. Im sick of all the outside shots with so few coming from the bigs. Haywood made several good moves and got fouled. I don't even remember seeing them post up AB once. Just because they are in, doesn't mean they are being used well.

NY hit some shots but you can't count on him because his game is all one-on-one and he forces a lot of shots. Sure if you want to call his number on the last play, but to have him in there down the stretch was what we saw the other game. It would be 1 on 5 and no chance of him passing the ball. I doubt that would have worked either.

Another problem was how long we left Songaila in. We lost like a 12 pt lead. That was on EJ also. We could have easily won this game.

But give EJ GA and CB and we will win again because they are awesome players.

The problem will come in the playoffs when we need a post game. We won't have one. We will either hit from the outside or loss trying.
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Post#208 » by fishercob » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:09 am

nate33 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I dont' think it's that simple. We have seen all season that EJ can't draw up a last-minute play where we even get a decent look. It's always a terrible shot. Always!

I can live with running a play to Jamison in the post and then having Jamison missing. That's a coach getting the job done but the playing not executing. Our problem is that we can't even get the ball to a player to even have a chance at making a play. That's bad coaching. Plain and simple.


The end of quarter play calling is a valid criticism and I've had it myself. But it never should have come anywhere near to that being the difference in the game.
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Post#209 » by no D in Hibachi » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:10 am

wait a minute, i thought Nick Young was a bust? make up your mind people.
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Post#210 » by miller31time » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:11 am

no D in Hibachi wrote:wait a minute, i thought Nick Young was a bust? make up your mind people.


Inconsistent? Yup (find me a rookie who isn't). But a bust? Hell no!
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Post#211 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:11 am

To be fair, EJ drew up a high pick-and-roll with the goal to get the ball to Jamison. New York saw right through it and forced AD to keep the ball.

With 19 seconds, EJ had time to be more creative. Heck, I'd have been happy with running the stupid weave and then dumping it on the block to either Jamison or Nick Young (who should have been in the game). Either that or an isolation with Nick Young surrounded by Mason, Stevenson, Jamison and DSong to spread the floor.
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Post#212 » by Wizards2Lottery » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:13 am

nate33 wrote: an isolation with Nick Young surrounded by Mason, Stevenson, Jamison and DSong to spread the floor.


That would have been the most possible option. Have Nick take it strong to the bucket with the floor spread out. The Knicks have the most pathetic defensive bigs in the league. I can't believe we made so little attempt to penetrate and get fouls.
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Post#213 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:14 am

fishercob wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



The end of quarter play calling is a valid criticism and I've had it myself. But it never should have come anywhere near to that being the difference in the game.

I agree. I'm not blaming the loss solely on EJ. Most of the team didn't show up tonight. EJ deserves some blame though.
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Post#214 » by fishercob » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:15 am

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That would have been the most possible option. Have Nick take it strong to the bucket with the floor spread out. The Knicks have the most pathetic defensive bigs in the league. I can't believe we made so little attempt to penetrate and get fouls.


Huh? Each of Young's baskets tonight was a jumper, most were fadeaways. When he tired to put it on the floor he turned it over. And he cannot create shiots for others and doesn't pass. So, umm.....no.
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Post#215 » by miller31time » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:15 am

As a coach, you can't just expect to put two players at the top of the key, have one off-ball and have the other just hand the ball to him.

The defense, as they should, is going to be keying in on Jamison.

It's just very weird to me. EJ is known for being able to run an effective and somewhat complicated offense. Why can't he run an effective and somewhat complicated last-possession play?
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Post#216 » by 80sballboy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:16 am

I like Nick Young if you can take one side of the court, and put in a pinch defender, so he only has to play offense. It's hard to play him at the end, unless you go offense for defense every other possession.

Bottom line is that this loss will either cost us a seed or the playoffs if we don't get it going and I'm not the type to jump off a bridge after a loss.
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Post#217 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:17 am

nate33 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I dont' think it's that simple. We have seen all season that EJ can't draw up a last-minute play where we even get a decent look. It's always a terrible shot. Always!

I can live with running a play to Jamison in the post and then having Jamison missing. That's a coach getting the job done but the playing not executing. Our problem is that we can't even get the ball to a player to even have a chance at making a play. That's bad coaching. Plain and simple.


I agree with you that it was a bad play. But how do you know that AD wasn't suppose to get the ball back to AJ and it wasn't failed execution. In any event, the game shouldn't have even gotten to that point. If it wasn't for AD's untimely turnovers and missed layups and the lazy effort of the players, we wouldn't even be having a conversation about the last play.

Fishercob, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I don't even like E.J. and I agree that the criticism about some of his decisions is warranted. But, I'm getting sick of every frickin' loss being blamed primarily on the one person who probably has the least to do with the win/loss column. By doing so, everyone on this board just gives the players a free pass.
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Post#218 » by hands11 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:19 am

nate33 wrote:To be fair, EJ drew up a high pick-and-roll with the goal to get the ball to Jamison. New York saw right through it and forced AD to keep the ball.

With 19 seconds, EJ had time to be more creative. Heck, I'd have been happy with running the stupid weave and then dumping it on the block to either Jamison or Nick Young (who should have been in the game). Either that or an isolation with Nick Young surrounded by Mason, Stevenson, Jamison and DSong to spread the floor.


That is exactly what I'm saying. If you don't have GA or even CB, run the dame offense. This iso crap is just stupid when the iso is DS, Mason or AD.
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Post#219 » by Wizards2Lottery » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:22 am

fishercob wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Huh? Each of Young's baskets tonight was a jumper, most were fadeaways. When he tired to put it on the floor he turned it over. And he cannot create shiots for others and doesn't pass. So, umm.....no.


He still has the ability to take it to the rim. That has a better shot of happening than Daniels knocking down a jumper.

Hes one of our only players who can create a shot for himself. But its all good, we should trade him for Tim Thomas or Kyle Lowry tommorow.
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Post#220 » by fishercob » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:26 am

miller31time wrote:As a coach, you can't just expect to put two players at the top of the key, have one off-ball and have the other just hand the ball to him.

The defense, as they should, is going to be keying in on Jamison.

It's just very weird to me. EJ is known for being able to run an effective and somewhat complicated offense. Why can't he run an effective and somewhat complicated last-possession play?


Sort of. The root of the mess on the last possession was that AD can't shoot well from the outside, so the Knicks could easily jam Jamison and back off Daniels. If he had a reliable jumper it would be different, but as SecretKev repeated to me from some folks who used to be in the Sonics' front office, if AD had a jumper he'd be an all-star. AD should have gone strong to the hole and I'd have lived with the result.

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