Official Thread - Wizards at Bulls (2/29/07)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Anyone think EJ did a masterful job coaching tonight???

Pehaps his best HALF today, tsvqt.

Benched Jamison a long time, too.

Didn't question one single rotation folliowing the first half.

Took Pecherov out right after the facial by Nocioni and IIRC Dominic answered with a dunk.

Eddie coached em up today.

[hands11]

http://www.nba.com/games/20080229/WASCHI/boxscore.html


What in the hell does this +/- really mean anyway. How was AB -14

17 pts 10 rebs 2 blks, 1 steal, 2 assists

[Wizards2Lottery]

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Nope

We should have never gotten in the whole against such a crappy team.

Didn't some say DS gave the 1/2 time speech. Maybe we can add him along with the shooting coach and the D coach.

Dude give it a break. Eddie did an excellent job in the second half. You can't blame him for the first half because the entire team sucked.

He took it to the Bulls small lineup and called excellent plays out of times.

Bulls at this point are a much better and talented team than us.

Eddie has his nights. Today he was great and got this team a huge win by making key in game decisions.

[Wizards2Lottery]

http://www.nba.com/games/20080229/WASCHI/boxscore.html


What in the hell does this +/- really mean anyway. How was AB -14

17 pts 10 rebs 2 blks, 1 steal, 2 assists

Bulls outscored us by 14 during the minutes AB was in the game. Most likely suggests that despite having good stats, Andray wasn't the best option out there, something EJ noticed.

[hands11]

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Dude give it a break. Eddie did an excellent job in the second half. You can't blame him for the first half because the entire team sucked.

He took it to the Bulls small lineup and called excellent plays out of times.

Bulls at this point are a much better and talented team than us.

Eddie has his nights. Today he was great and got this team a huge win by making key in game decisions.

I respect your post but I'm just calling it like I see it. I see no reason to give EJ a break. He can't control his players. They couldn't execute a play in the first half. AJ wouldn't stop forcing things. He didn't even give NY a chance. DS was also forcing it. He is an offensive mastermind but we are one of the lowest assist teams in the league.

So DS goes out. That removed one player who was warn out and forcing shots. That helped a lot.

The good news is we seem to have added another player. Songaila has clearly awaken from his deep slumber and not a moment to soon.

The bad news. AJ isn't going to last much longer at this pace and AB got nicked. We have to play our healthy players more and live with the results or else you will turn around and we will be even more short handed.

We played better because we played more players who had some legs. 38 mins for AJ isnt anything I'm happy to see. Nor is 36 for AD. We are holding on by a thread with these injured players. I don't want to see them also miss games.

[jholmbe1]

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Nope

We should have never gotten in the whole against such a crappy team.

Didn't some say DS gave the 1/2 time speech. Maybe we can add him along with the shooting coach and the D coach.

In addition to your terrible grammar and lack of understanding basic NBA statistics (+/-), I find your posts to be incredibly annoying and negative. I don't post often but I read the board a lot and I notice your negativity. Why even bother posting on the board if you can't get excited after a great win like that?

[80sballboy]

Oh ye of little faith. Maybe it was better that I couldn't watch the game in Baltimore as they blacked it out on ESPN and showed Utah/NO.

It's laughable reading this thread, which is why I don't post during the game. This team should have gotten destroyed without Stevenson tonight in the second half. It sounded like a selfish move, crying because he couldn't get calls and frustrated over his knee. What a win.

What a great motivational job by Eddie, say what you want about him being a HS coach (brilliant). He pushed the right buttons.

[Severn Hoos]

http://www.nba.com/games/20080229/WASCHI/boxscore.html


What in the hell does this +/- really mean anyway. How was AB -14

17 pts 10 rebs 2 blks, 1 steal, 2 assists

hands, I'm not trying to be a smart(aleck), but for a guy who posts a lot about rotations, you really seem to have a hard time understanding +/-. Here's the play-by-play, per ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbypla ... =280229004

As we know, Blatche didn't start. He first reported to the game at the 2:48 mark of the 1st period:

2:48 ... Andray Blatche enters the game for Antonio Daniels ...... 18-22 (score)

From what I can tell, he played the remainder of the 1st half, which ended with the Wiz down 52-34. So, when he was on the court in the 1st half, the team went from down 4 points to down 18 points - which gave him a +/- rating (at that point) of -14.

By the time he re-entered the game, the Wiz had (miraculously) tied it:

3:06 ... Andray Blatche enters the game for Antawn Jamison ...... 59-59

He played the rest of the 3rd qurter and most of the 4th, leaving at the 3:55 mark:

3:55 ... Darius Songaila enters the game for Andray Blatche ...... 83-82

During this stretch, the team started tied and ended up 1 point, so his +/- for this stretch was +1.

So for the game, by my calculation and the ESPN play-by-play, Blatche was -13 total (not sure the 1 point discrepancy). Meaning the team was outscored by 13 points while he played. This is a team stat - it is not based on his individual contribution, or how he performed relative to his counterpart on the other team, just how the Wizards did when he was on the floor.

Hope that helps.

[80sballboy]

respect your post but I'm just calling it like I see it. I see no reason to give EJ a break. He can't control his players. They couldn't execute a play in the first half. AJ wouldn't stop forcing things. He didn't even give NY a chance. DS was also forcing it. He is an offensive mastermind but we are one of the lowest assist teams in the league.

So DS goes out. That removed one player who was warn out and forcing shots. That helped a lot.

The good news is we seem to have added another player. Songaila has clearly awaken from his deep slumber and not a moment to soon.

The bad news. AJ isn't going to last much longer at this pace and AB got nicked. We have to play our healthy players more and live with the results or else you will turn around and we will be even more short handed.

We played better because we played more players who had some legs. 38 mins for AJ isnt anything I'm happy to see. Nor is 36 for AD. We are holding on by a thread with these injured players. I don't want to see them also miss games.

Sure, he should have played a bunch of rookies 25 minutes per game all season long. I'm sure Pat Riley would have done that. Or Phil Jackson. Or Greg Poppovich. You must be kidding me. Those guys woudn't have been stuck with a 10-man team or 13 to start with with a bunch of rookies and youngsters on the bench. They would have forced the owner to go out and get a veteran like James Posey to come off the bench. No Eddie is stuck with this crap and while he does at times play his starters into the ground, tell me how he's supposed to win? He's trying to win games and not rest guys for hope that they can get ready for the playoffs. There may not be a playoffs.

At least he rested Stevenson tonight.

[tsvqt]

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In addition to your terrible grammar and lack of understanding basic NBA statistics (+/-), I find your posts to be incredibly annoying and negative. I don't post often but I read the board a lot and I notice your negativity. Why even bother posting on the board if you can't get excited after a great win like that?

THE "POTN" Award winner!! POTN = Post Of The Night
Somebody give this man a free ticket to an upcoming Wizards Playoff game!!

[Severn Hoos]

FWIW, I think I found the one point discrepancy in my description above. Although the score was tied when Blatche entered in the 3rd quarter, he came in between two Daniels FTs. Since the man he replaced (Jamison) was on the court when the foul occurred - which allowed AD to go to the line - it seems fair to count the 2nd FT (which was good) to Jamison and not Blatche.

By that reasoning, he came in to the game in the 3rd with the Wiz up 1, and left in the 4th with the Wiz still up 1, for a +/- during that stretch of 0. When coupled with the -14 in the first half, he winds up with a -14 for the game.

[hands11]

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In addition to your terrible grammar and lack of understanding basic NBA statistics (+/-), I find your posts to be incredibly annoying and negative. I don't post often but I read the board a lot and I notice your negativity. Why even bother posting on the board if you can't get excited after a great win like that?

Because I don't drift with the wind. I post plenty of positive posts. But I also post about the negative stuff. If you want to focus on the negative, I can't help you there.

I post because I am an avid Wizards fan and this has been my team since I was a kid. Threw the good times, the bad times and in between times.

I didn't realize a board like this was just to celebrate wins.

As for not understanding the +/-. I understand it. It was a rhetorical question.

[hands11]

http://www.nba.com/games/20080229/WASCHI/boxscore.html


What in the hell does this +/- really mean anyway. How was AB -14

17 pts 10 rebs 2 blks, 1 steal, 2 assists

hands, I'm not trying to be a smart(aleck), but for a guy who posts a lot about rotations, you really seem to have a hard time understanding +/-. Here's the play-by-play, per ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbypla ... =280229004

As we know, Blatche didn't start. He first reported to the game at the 2:48 mark of the 1st period:

2:48 ... Andray Blatche enters the game for Antonio Daniels ...... 18-22 (score)

From what I can tell, he played the remainder of the 1st half, which ended with the Wiz down 52-34. So, when he was on the court in the 1st half, the team went from down 4 points to down 18 points - which gave him a +/- rating (at that point) of -14.

By the time he re-entered the game, the Wiz had (miraculously) tied it:

3:06 ... Andray Blatche enters the game for Antawn Jamison ...... 59-59

He played the rest of the 3rd qurter and most of the 4th, leaving at the 3:55 mark:

3:55 ... Darius Songaila enters the game for Andray Blatche ...... 83-82

During this stretch, the team started tied and ended up 1 point, so his +/- for this stretch was +1.

So for the game, by my calculation and the ESPN play-by-play, Blatche was -13 total (not sure the 1 point discrepancy). Meaning the team was outscored by 13 points while he played. This is a team stat - it is not based on his individual contribution, or how he performed relative to his counterpart on the other team, just how the Wizards did when he was on the floor.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the details.

Exactly. It's just to many people use that stat as something meaningful. AB was probably the only player producing much during that stretch but because the team played poorly, that stat makes it look like he played poorly or that the team played poorly because he was on the floor.

Well, at least some reference it that way. AB had a nice game along with several other players.

Haywood continues to impress with some of his moves. Putting the ball on the court like he has been doing is kind of amazing for a 7-0 Haywood.

I still really like out talent.

[dandridge 10]

This is a good win.

The kind of win that gets you momentum.

dandridge, you can watch now.

Good one CCJ. When I turned on the Tv we were up by three and I couldn't believe my eyes. Then we proceeded to give up four straight points. I almost turned the TV off feeling I was bad luck. I'm glad I watched to the end. Nice come back victory...wish I actually saw the comeback.

[hands11]

respect your post but I'm just calling it like I see it. I see no reason to give EJ a break. He can't control his players. They couldn't execute a play in the first half. AJ wouldn't stop forcing things. He didn't even give NY a chance. DS was also forcing it. He is an offensive mastermind but we are one of the lowest assist teams in the league.

So DS goes out. That removed one player who was warn out and forcing shots. That helped a lot.

The good news is we seem to have added another player. Songaila has clearly awaken from his deep slumber and not a moment to soon.

The bad news. AJ isn't going to last much longer at this pace and AB got nicked. We have to play our healthy players more and live with the results or else you will turn around and we will be even more short handed.

We played better because we played more players who had some legs. 38 mins for AJ isnt anything I'm happy to see. Nor is 36 for AD. We are holding on by a thread with these injured players. I don't want to see them also miss games.

Sure, he should have played a bunch of rookies 25 minutes per game all season long. I'm sure Pat Riley would have done that. Or Phil Jackson. Or Greg Poppovich. You must be kidding me. Those guys woudn't have been stuck with a 10-man team or 13 to start with with a bunch of rookies and youngsters on the bench. They would have forced the owner to go out and get a veteran like James Posey to come off the bench. No Eddie is stuck with this crap and while he does at times play his starters into the ground, tell me how he's supposed to win? He's trying to win games and not rest guys for hope that they can get ready for the playoffs. There may not be a playoffs.

At least he rested Stevenson tonight.

He didn't rest DS. DS rested DS.

You are over blowing what I wrote but to point out what I was saying. Somehow we got by without DS tonight.

[tsvqt]

We didn't land on Plymouth Rock....Plymouth Rock landed on us!!
We didn't win because DS got the boot....DS got the boot so that we COULD win!!
It was all part of his master plan to fire-up the team!!

[fishercob]

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In addition to your terrible grammar and lack of understanding basic NBA statistics (+/-), I find your posts to be incredibly annoying and negative. I don't post often but I read the board a lot and I notice your negativity. Why even bother posting on the board if you can't get excited after a great win like that?

Bro, just join the "ignore" party with hands. Reading the board has been eminently more enjoyable since I put him on mute.

[jmrosenth]

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Thanks for the details.

Exactly. It's just to many people use that stat as something meaningful. AB was probably the only player producing much during that stretch but because the team played poorly, that stat makes it look like he played poorly or that the team played poorly because he was on the floor.

Well, at least some reference it that way. AB had a nice game along with several other players.

Actually no, you are the only one referencing it that way. Why are you playing possum just to get your point across? We've talked ad nauseum here about the limitation of on/off stats, especially in small sample sizes. However, large sample sizes are useful in context.

Let me quote Sev again...

So for the game, by my calculation and the ESPN play-by-play, Blatche was -13 total (not sure the 1 point discrepancy). Meaning the team was outscored by 13 points while he played. This is a team stat - it is not based on his individual contribution, or how he performed relative to his counterpart on the other team, just how the Wizards did when he was on the floor.

[nate33]

Wow!

I checked the score at halftime after putting the kids to bed. It looked like another blowout so I decided I didn't want to deal with the aggravation. I ended up watching some chick flick with my wife.

I can't believe I missed the comeback.

[miller31time]

Couldn't watch the game since I was at the movies watching "Semi-Pro" (which, by the way, was freaking hilarious!), but from watching the highlights, this seemed like one of the craziest Wizards games in a long time - especially that last play by Songaila/Jamison.

Huge win that keeps us solid at #6.