The Amazingly Sucky Flip Saunders Thread

[closg00]

Flip Saunders:

"JaVale was getting his butt kick tonight," Wizards Coach Flip Saunders said. "It was a learning experience for him tonight. I mean he plays 15 minutes, the guy he's going against goes 10 for 10. [McGee] gets one rebound. Those are things he's got to do better."

User comment on Lee's blog

Damn, Flip. Are you trying to humiliate him or motivate him? While you're at it, give some of that public criticism to Miller for his turnovers and passing up open shots.
Stop perpetuating this "two sets of rules" junk for vets and youngins!

Posted by: gimmedat | February 25, 2010 11:13 AM


Some things will always remain the same.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 25, 2010 11:28 AM

Someone please post a similar quote that Flip has made about one of the vets getting abused in a similar fashion. Flips comments are very revealing and it sheds some light on why some get the quick-hook and others not.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Flip is a young guy hater and the best thing would be for Javale and Young to be traded.

No future here for either player, and a good chance he'll hurt their careers.

Singleton will be starting over McGee soon. I can just tell.

[verbal8]

Flip is a young guy hater and the best thing would be for Javale and Young to be traded.

I wonder if Young would do better in a more wide-open system like Phoenix or Golden State. He has been a really good 3 point shooter this season, but hasn't done much else.

[nate33]

"JaVale was getting his butt kick tonight," Wizards Coach Flip Saunders said. "It was a learning experience for him tonight. I mean he plays 15 minutes, the guy he's going against goes 10 for 10. [McGee] gets one rebound. Those are things he's got to do better."

Damn, Flip. Are you trying to humiliate him or motivate him? While you're at it, give some of that public criticism to Miller for his turnovers and passing up open shots.
Stop perpetuating this "two sets of rules" junk for vets and youngins!

Some things will always remain the same.

Someone please post a similar quote that Flip has made about one of the vets getting abused in a similar fashion. Flips comments are very revealing and it sheds some light on why some get the quick-hook and others not.

None of the vets have ever been abused in similar fashion. The Gasol/McGee matchup was as one-sided as I have ever seen in pro basketball.

Read between the lines here. There are a lot of rumors and innuendo about how McGee does not prepare for games. Heck, Singleton has been here 5 games and he's already picked up on it. McGee needs a good dose of criticism.

McGee has had two years to adapt to the NBA. Obviously the guy hasn't even gotten through his head how hard he'll have to work to succeed at this level. It's time to take the kid gloves off. I'm glad Flip is trying to humiliate McGee. As far as I'm concerned, Flip can say whatever he wants about McGee as long as he continues to play him. I'll only get upset if McGee is benched, because this is a golden opportunitiy to help McGee understand how bad he sucks on D.

[Hoopalotta]

It's time to take the kid gloves off. I'm glad Flip is trying to humiliate McGee. As far as I'm concerned, Flip can say whatever he wants about McGee as long as he continues to play him. I'll only get upset if McGee is benched, because this is a golden opportunitiy to help McGee understand how bad he sucks on D.

Yeah, that's fair, though hopefully if something isn't working (like, going too hard-arsed), then Flip tries something else. But the whole 'humiliation' angle couldn't come much more decisively as is just by the direct in-game action as witnessed by the whole world.

Though you already know as much, I would just reiterate again that Gee's not an all around bad defensive player as much as he is just a (insert assorted "very's") bad man defender.

But sure, I don't know what anyone was expecting for Flip to do in the Memphis game. McGee had four fouls in 15 minutes, if they'd left him on Gasol for another four or five minutes, he'd have just fouled out. I mean, at least Flip went back to him when he could. Sliding over to cover Z-Bo would hardly have helped.

It's a process and I for one am happy with 24 minutes as a target number for nights when things are going well-ish.

[dandridge 10]

Flip Saunders:

"JaVale was getting his butt kick tonight," Wizards Coach Flip Saunders said. "It was a learning experience for him tonight. I mean he plays 15 minutes, the guy he's going against goes 10 for 10. [McGee] gets one rebound. Those are things he's got to do better."

User comment on Lee's blog

Damn, Flip. Are you trying to humiliate him or motivate him? While you're at it, give some of that public criticism to Miller for his turnovers and passing up open shots.
Stop perpetuating this "two sets of rules" junk for vets and youngins!

Posted by: gimmedat | February 25, 2010 11:13 AM


Some things will always remain the same.

Posted by: artiesliver | February 25, 2010 11:28 AM

Someone please post a similar quote that Flip has made about one of the vets getting abused in a similar fashion. Flips comments are very revealing and it sheds some light on why some get the quick-hook and others not.

Well, I'm not going to look back at all his quotes, but I certainly recall him saying that the Wizards, including the vets, couldn't guard him if they tried and said that they needed a different mindset. At the time, he was talking about everyone on the team, not just the youngsters.

As for McGee, I agree with Nate. Besides, I don't think Flip said anything that Javale shouldn't already know. All McGee has to do is watch the tape over and see that he got abused and schooled by Gasol. It was Gasol that embarassed McGee, not Flip.

[montestewart]

I admit I'm hypersensitive to evidence of double standards, after nearly two years of watching some vets play forty minutes while making the same mistakes repeatedly on offense and defense. Young or McGee make a mistake: gone.

Still, I recall when Saunders pulled all the vet starters and let the mostly young bench run the show; I recall the comment referred to above about the vets being unable to guard him, and I recall recently him letting the mostly new and/or young players finish the game. Saunders is more flexible than EJ and especially ET.

Maybe Saunders feels that most vets are pretty set in their ways, and sitting them is a poor motivator, so he just hopes that they play to their expected levels, and benches them only when he's sure he has a better option.

"How can I reach these kids?" he thinks to himself. "The bench!" I guess I'll just wait and see if that's good coaching. I'm sure not ready to trade McGee, unless it's a great deal.

[LyricalRico]

"How can I reach these kids?"

Flip Cartmenez

[DaRealHibachi]

"How can I reach these kids?"

Flip Cartmenez

[closg00]

James was asked why the Wizards struggled, even before the Gilbert Arenas incident.

"I don’t know. We were a team that was primed for great success with the players that we had. I believe that we could have won. But for some reason, coach couldn’t decide which were the best players to put out there at the right time. Because of that, we lost a lot of games."
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0hL8747IH

Finally someone speaks the truth, even if it is coming from Mike James.

No disrespect to the current feel-good thread that CCJ has up.

[gesa2]

Mike James? you're sourcing MIKE JAMES!?? His problem with Flip was probably 100% about his own lack of playing time

[TheSecretWeapon]

James was asked why the Wizards struggled, even before the Gilbert Arenas incident.

"I don’t know. We were a team that was primed for great success with the players that we had. I believe that we could have won. But for some reason, coach couldn’t decide which were the best players to put out there at the right time. Because of that, we lost a lot of games."
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0hL8747IH

Finally someone speaks the truth, even if it is coming from Mike James.

No disrespect to the current feel-good thread that CCJ has up.

C'mon man. Mike James is borderline delusional. This was the same guy talking about people should ask Steve Nash how he feels playing against James. This is the same guy calling himself "great" in the locker room when one of his previous teams (Houston) refused to accept him in ANY TRADE -- even just to release him.

Plus, he was mad a Flip for not playing him.

[Joe_Wiz]

James was asked why the Wizards struggled, even before the Gilbert Arenas incident.

"I don’t know. We were a team that was primed for great success with the players that we had. I believe that we could have won. But for some reason, coach couldn’t decide which were the best players to put out there at the right time. Because of that, we lost a lot of games."
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0hL8747IH

Finally someone speaks the truth, even if it is coming from Mike James.

No disrespect to the current feel-good thread that CCJ has up.

If only Flip had played Mike James 30 minutes a night, this season would have been entirely different.

[closg00]

The evidence clearly shows that Blatche & McGee should have been playing more. James is right on the facts.

[Ruzious]

The evidence clearly shows that Blatche & McGee should have been playing more. James is right on the facts.

I think James was including himself in his comment, but even with Blatche and McGee, the facts are that they have negative +/- per 82games.com. Blatche has a -3.6 and McGee has a -3.7, so the team has played worse with them in the game this season.

[closg00]

The evidence clearly shows that Blatche & McGee should have been playing more. James is right on the facts.

I think James was including himself in his comment, but even with Blatche and McGee, the facts are that they have negative +/- per 82games.com. Blatche has a -3.6 and McGee has a -3.7, so the team has played worse with them in the game this season.

These figures are not averaged post-trade. Regardless, the +/- numbers don't reflect all of Blatche's double-doubles post-trade, nor our improved record until Howard went down.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The evidence clearly shows that Blatche & McGee should have been playing more. James is right on the facts.

In truth, Mike James is FAR MORE ON POINT THAN FLIP SAUNDERS.

The Wizards offense was terrible early in the season they lost several games by more than 10 points. Flip played a short bench and some of the worst combinations possible--Oberto/Stevenson got huge minutes and Young/McGee got next to none.

Flip kept riding Gil when he wasn't ready. He never reigned in Butler. He enabled horrible defenders Jamison and Butler to be shotjackers guaranteed to play 40. He never figured Blatche was better at PF than Jamison. I did.

He NEVER tried McGee with Haywood.

I think Flip has generally been a VERY BAD COACH this season.

Not just this game where they got crushed.

Go back to the beginning of this season. He NEVER benched struggling Butler and put Jamison at SF. (Jamison/Oberto/Haywood might have worked!)

Flip might have always done stellar work, but I not only don't think James is delusion, TSW, I agree with him.


When the Wizards got the new guys, about 4 or 5 games in I predicted that Flip would start coaching his system, stifle creativity, start benching young guys. Back the first few games after the trade everybody was playing 20-something minutes. But one game either McGee or Young made a mistake ... and INSTANTLY ... negative reinforcement and benching.

Saunders is flat out ruining Nick Young.

Tonight, only in a blowout did McGee get 30 minutes. Many here just like to knock Javale McGee. Today, 13 points/11 rebounds/4 blocks in 30 minutes--but he only got the last 10 in garbage time.

I'm with James on Flip this season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

James was asked why the Wizards struggled, even before the Gilbert Arenas incident.

"I don’t know. We were a team that was primed for great success with the players that we had. I believe that we could have won. But for some reason, coach couldn’t decide which were the best players to put out there at the right time. Because of that, we lost a lot of games."
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0hL8747IH

Finally someone speaks the truth, even if it is coming from Mike James.

No disrespect to the current feel-good thread that CCJ has up.

C'mon man. Mike James is borderline delusional. This was the same guy talking about people should ask Steve Nash how he feels playing against James. This is the same guy calling himself "great" in the locker room when one of his previous teams (Houston) refused to accept him in ANY TRADE -- even just to release him.

Plus, he was mad a Flip for not playing him.

James was tripping about Nash and his own game. I think he's right, in general, about Flip.

To me, Flip doesn't get this roster. He's got height and length. Young and McGee need to be able to make all the mistakes they want without the quick hook. Miller's not playing well with the new crew, and I think possibly he's hurting.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Feel good thread notwithstanding, I agree that Flip didn't put the right guys out there.

Just go back and read game threads from November on. I'm pretty consistent on what I think he might have tried differently.

[Wizards2Lottery]

I was a Nick Young backer but I don't understand what you see in him CCJ. He is completely clueless and just stands around when he gets in the game. Lowest bball IQ on the team by far.