Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico
Illuminaire wrote:I greatly appreciate Ted Leonsis. He won't do everything right. But he is willing to listen and to learn, something very few other owners can claim. His rebuilding philosophy is sound and realistic, and he appears to really care about the team and, gasp, the fans.
It's almost enough to give me hope again.
verbal8 wrote:Illuminaire wrote:I greatly appreciate Ted Leonsis. He won't do everything right. But he is willing to listen and to learn, something very few other owners can claim. His rebuilding philosophy is sound and realistic, and he appears to really care about the team and, gasp, the fans.
It's almost enough to give me hope again.
That will definitely put him ahead of the Skins owner
"How you gonna get value for him? Unless you're gonna go get Deron Williams or Chris Paul or somebody like that, tell me how. Why do we have to bottom out to rebuild our team? I don't see why you would want to bottom out and spend the next five years trying to get good again."
"I don't see how it makes any sense for us to move him," GM Lon Babby said. "I know that people think we ought to look to the future. And we're doing that. But if you look at the history of the teams that have sort of blown it up, as the expression goes, how successful have they been in recapturing [elite status] and how long does it take?
AceDegenerate wrote:"How you gonna get value for him? Unless you're gonna go get Deron Williams or Chris Paul or somebody like that, tell me how. Why do we have to bottom out to rebuild our team? I don't see why you would want to bottom out and spend the next five years trying to get good again."
"I don't see how it makes any sense for us to move him," GM Lon Babby said. "I know that people think we ought to look to the future. And we're doing that. But if you look at the history of the teams that have sort of blown it up, as the expression goes, how successful have they been in recapturing [elite status] and how long does it take?
Alvin Gentry regarding dealing Steve Nash and the idea of blowing up the team to rebuild. I think he makes a good point about not necessarily needing to "bottom out" your roster in order to rebuild. With Oklahoma City as the only success story for rebuilding in this manner, I think we may be headed the wrong way down a long one way street.
Illuminaire wrote:Hyperbolic fact-twist by Kriz?
Read the article... even that writer places the blame on FTD for changing the coupon results on their end.
"Update: Groupon responds below in the comments. Among other things, they’re giving users an automatic refund for any difference they paid over the retail price FTD was offering everyone else."
when groupon called me and wanted to run a http://socialprintshop.com deal, their sales rep basically told me to double the price of my product for a month to make things work for me giving a 50% off deal. Living Social did the exact same thing, as did another deal site that reached out to me. Living social only required me to lower the price for 1 week after the deal ended.
Illuminaire wrote:It's not a matter of belief, but of reason. Can you explain what parts of my argument were incorrect?
Illuminaire wrote:Ace...
Your first post made a fact claim - that Ted Leonsis (Mr. Groupon) conducted unethical business practices.
This claim is very specific. Your statement cannot be interpreted in very many ways, and all of them include Ted himself being directly involved in this unethical business activity.
You then gave us an article link. The obvious inference is that the link would provide the factual basis for your truth claim. If it did not, then your statement was unsupported. That article did go on to discuss a shady business tactic... by a groupon client. The author of the article clearly placed the blame on FTD, with only an indirect rebuke aimed at Groupon. Moreover, the author's ire at Groupon was actually based on the fact that up until this incident, they had acted in an honorable and ethical manner with customers.
In other words, this incident appeared to be a departure from their normal standards of operation. Even when other clients had reneged on their coupons, Groupon had covered that for customers who informed them, so it was shocking to the author that they were not doing so with FTD - shock he had to repeal because Groupon WAS refunding the difference in cost.
Your linked article does not condemn Groupon. It does not reveal unethical business practices. At worst it reveals a corporate mistake that Groupon had only a small part in. At WORST, mind you. Furthermore, the article does not even attempt to link any of this to specific decision maker, which would be absolutely necessary to support your accusation that Ted Leonsis conducted unethical business practices.
To summarize, your truth claim is:
1) Unsupported by the article you listed
2) Requires the outright fabrication of additional "facts"
3) Exaggerated beyond reason
So yes, you employed hyperbole and twisted facts. There is no "not quite" about it. That is what you did, period.
PS: It's not a "cover up" when a company refunds a consumer's money. If you walked down to Walmart and bought something, then found out it's broken, you would take it back. Walmart would then refund your money or exchange the item for another one. None of that means that Walmart WANTED to sell you a bad product (unethical) or that they tried to hide the fact that they did (a cover up). It just means you got a bum item and they made it right by giving your money back.
PPS: There is a reason that hearsay is not permissible as evidence in courts of law. For the same reason, resting your *entire* argument on the blog postings left by random internet people at the end of an article is irresponsible and unconvincing. The bar for truth is higher than internet rumors, even here.
Induveca wrote:For what it's worth Leonsis is on the board and a major VC. He meets with the top guys (founder, upper management) at Groupon in Chicaco once a month.
In terms of day to day operations, he's really not involved..........but he has helped to set strategy for the past 18 months. What you wrote was very logical Illuminaire, but at the end of the day it really has little to do with Leonsis. He has his hands full with at least 10 investments, Groupon being the one that will pay for the rest likely failing.
