Nov 5-Bullets at Knicks at the Garden

[dlts20]

...............

[cdouglas]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

I agree and so hasn't Saunders seen that? Wall is a great player but I too agree that Saunders is giving him too much responsibility. It was mentioned that Gil and Wall looked uncomfortable on the floor together. Gil is probably more comfortable coming off the bench so that he won't be labeled as taking the ball away from Wall. In reality Gilbert should be the leader until Wall gets his feet wet in the NBA. I just think it's the wrong way to bring in a Rookie with too much responsibilities. I think Wall is getting into this hype of him being so fast that he's turning over the ball. He's young so he's going to get all excited about being known as speedy.

[pineappleheadindc]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

I agree and so hasn't Saunders seen that? Wall is a great player but I too agree that Saunders is giving him too much responsibility. It was mentioned that Gil and Wall looked uncomfortable on the floor together. Gil is probably more comfortable coming off the bench so that he won't be labeled as taking the ball away from Wall. In reality Gilbert should be the leader until Wall gets his feet wet in the NBA. I just think it's the wrong way to bring in a Rookie with too much responsibilities.

I think I agree with this.

I wonder how Gil's ankle feels in the morning. If he's pain free, start him vs Cleveland.

Boy did Blatche looked gassed. This game exposed our not-too-secret weakness (well, we have multiple weaknesses, but our most glaring one). We have no depth. Whoever thought that drafting two project bigs simultaneously while we already had little depth in the first place should be hit with a pie.

[B-easy]

I think wall needs to play off the ball more, even though his jump shot isn't great. His turnovers are a bit problem. A turnover can lead to a 4 point swing (or even 6), wall had nine turn overs and the knicks were converting a lot into points. But he will surely improve.

On the other hand we could just let wall develop and play him through his mistakes hoping that he will improve.

[Wizardspride]

Anybody think that the Wiz made a mistake in not looking to spend some of the 20+ mil they had in cap space?

[penbeast0]

Guys, yes we sucked, but get a grip. This team was not expected to be any good and it's been pretty much exactly as expected (ok . . . Thornton's been a lot better but other than that). But our goal is not to maximize THIS year, it's to maximize John Wall's prime.

I wanted us to trade Arenas for Okafor to help the team too . . . but tell the truth, I think our best bet is NOT to get a competent big now. If we do, why would any coach in his right mind play McGee? Our best bet is to live with the cluelessness and try to develop a big man rotation out of Blatche/McGee/Booker and (dare I mention the missing line) Seraphim. And . . . with minutes to help them learn to play and us to learn what they are worth plus lots of losses, we should add more pieces to our core. Yeah, at times it will suck but that's who we are right now.

Now, if we are still playing like this in 2 years it is time to panic because Wall will be looking to get out and the team will be in perpetual loser mode but we can make ourselves into a Portland type situation fairly easily if we don't get impatient and aim for mediocrity.

[LyricalRico]

Anybody think that the Wiz made a mistake in not looking to spend some of the 20+ mil they had in cap space?

Not at all. Would you trade a couple more wins for the pleasure of paying guys like Travis Outlaw $30M+? I absolutely echo the following sentiment:

Guys, yes we sucked, but get a grip. This team was not expected to be any good and it's been pretty much exactly as expected (ok . . . Thornton's been a lot better but other than that). But our goal is not to maximize THIS year, it's to maximize John Wall's prime.

The truth is that, in the big picture, losses this year don't really matter. Nobody should have expected playoffs from this team. The reality is they are rebuilding and we should expect them to look like a rebuilding team. All that matters is Wall's development.

[Hoopalotta]

I think wall needs to play off the ball more, even though his jump shot isn't great. His turnovers are a bit problem. A turnover can lead to a 4 point swing (or even 6), wall had nine turn overs and the knicks were converting a lot into points. But he will surely improve.

On the other hand we could just let wall develop and play him through his mistakes hoping that he will improve.

Wall really can't play off the ball until he improves his jumpshot. That was a problem tonight as things broke down when the ball swung to him as the open man and he hesitated. Wall looked really hesitant out there with Gil, but I'd say it comes down to this issue more than anything and wasn't on Gil.

Actually, it was interesting to see Gil and Dray working together trying to set things up. Guys have played off Wall a lot and to good effect, but that was amongst the most cooperative/collaborative/cohesive halfcourt offense I'd seen from us this year.

The reality is they are rebuilding and we should expect them to look like a rebuilding team. All that matters is Wall's development.

I might try and be a little bit more ambitious than just Wall's development, though I agree with your general sentiments.

Boy did Blatche looked gassed.

Yeah, he was barely lifting the soles of his feet off the floor by the end, almost sliding along. He's not anywhere near ready for 38 minutes as of now, though that would bode well for him progressing as we move forward.

[ErikChowbay023]

...............

What does this mean?

[Hoopalotta]

...............

What does this mean?

He just snipped that out and made the "Gil finishing at the rim" thread out of what had been the post. You can't delete a post outright once someone else posts after you.

[ErikChowbay023]

I never knew that..

[nykinoz]

Knicks win this 107-99

Amare bounces back with a monster game, and Felton contains JW.

8)

Amare bounces back I'll buy, esp vs our bigs

Felton contains Wall, not so much.

[Illuminaire]

Felton didn't really contain Wall, dude. Tony Douglas, on the other hand, did an excellent job disrupting his handle.

Your predictions were basically entirely wrong. Do you have something else to say?

[willbcocks]

Thoughts (I haven't watched the last game yet, so my comparison is based on first two)

-Blatche looked great, good all around game. Didn't take bad shots (except for once, where he got the ball, looked around for anyone to pass it to, no one on the team moved for a solid 5 seconds, and then he had to jack up the ball, no blame there), took the ball inside, played good D on Amare, and showed more rebounding effort than normal. He had his shot blocked 4 times, and I think this will always be an issue to some extent, but when he gets his legs back he will get back his wily finishing moves inside. He's never going to be a power dunker or a shot blocker, but he'll be a good pick and roll big and third guy on offense. He was dead tired late in the game, to the extent that he kept almost injuring himself. "Annoying and Boring" Walt Frasier, in a few rare moments of clarity, commented on this in the second half.

Mcgee- Encouraging play until he got his 4th foul. I disagree with the person who said he wasn't providing anything on D -- he was changing a lot of shots with his presence. Also, I think he had more than one block. Like in game 2, he was useless after foul #4. I think it will be an up and down first half of the season for him, but he has looked a little more aware out there recently.

Wall- Lots of mistakes. Rookie game after a career night. Not much to say here.

Gill-looked like Gil. Very good to see that the recent injury wasn't serious, as I was a bit worried. No chemistry with Wall yet (he had some with Dray) but that's to be expected.

The others: I feel like I'll be writing the same thing every game here. Our team has no depth at all, which is what killed us against NY. Everyone was terrible.

Four games in and this season seems to be shaping up as I thought it would: weak front court, no depth, and rookie mistakes = a fair number of losses. Mcgee has slightly exceeded my expectations, though I would still be willing to trade him for a top guard prospect (Henry/Harden/etc).

[DaRealHibachi]

I just want to add that I absolutely love Al Thornton... Love his game, his hustle, his agressiveness, especially on the boards... Takes good shots, takes it to the hole when he gets the opportunity... Plays very good D, too bad Flip would rather play a 3 guard lineup with Kirk or Young than a real SF...

Oh well, we lost b/c Wall had his first "bad" game, Dray was kinda outta shap (can't really blame him), and EG's soft ass front court...

Sorry, next to Dray (who should stay), you should bring in a Haywood type of player, NOT a Yi (tooooo frickin soft) nor a Neck (although he tries)... And I know, we got them both for nothing, and I know that Yi was a lottery pick, but still... They might be competent players on another team which has a bruiser PF or C, but not on this team... McGee should come off the bench as a 3rd or 4th big against backup centers... Not starting...

Oh and Gil played amazing, shot the 3 very well and took it to the basket when he got the chance... I just hope both he and Wall just let the game come to them, and not focus on things like: "Wall needs to grow, so Imma lay low a bit" or "I need to get Arenas his shots, so Imma calm myself down"... Just do you, you guys!!! Both of you are very special players who can learn allot from each other...

The outcome didn't really surprise me... They're a pretty young team as well, so back to back don't really tire them, they killed the Bulls in Chicago by raining it from the outside and guess what...??? They're at home, shooting a high percentage, allot of contested shots went in, and our shots just wouldn't... Oh well, time to move on... I expect a win tomorrow though, bounce-back for both Wall and Dray... Hell, maybe even for McGee too... We'll see...

[nate33]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

I agree and so hasn't Saunders seen that? Wall is a great player but I too agree that Saunders is giving him too much responsibility. It was mentioned that Gil and Wall looked uncomfortable on the floor together. Gil is probably more comfortable coming off the bench so that he won't be labeled as taking the ball away from Wall. In reality Gilbert should be the leader until Wall gets his feet wet in the NBA. I just think it's the wrong way to bring in a Rookie with too much responsibilities. I think Wall is getting into this hype of him being so fast that he's turning over the ball. He's young so he's going to get all excited about being known as speedy.

Meh, Wall is our PG of the future. I have no interest whatsoever in playing him off the ball to "get his feet wet"; he's not an off-the-ball player. Wall had a bad game. It happens with rookies. Flip should keep letting him run the offense. He'll learn quicker that way.

What should change is Hinrich. I'd much rather have Gil play point when Wall is out. Hinrich should fight Young for backup minutes at SG, that it. And I'm not convinced that Hinrich should beat out Young.

I'm not quite as disappointed in McGee as the rest of this board. Yes, he definitely needs to get better defensively, but he had some stretches there where he really did make a difference in stopping guard penetration. I also like that he is crashing the boards hard. 8 boards in 25 minutes isn't bad at all.

I thought Wall looked really tentative with his jumper. In the last few games, he looked like he was developing a bit more confidence with his shot. Today, his shot was flat with no rotation. He looked like he was afraid to shoot. Indeed, that was a problem with most of our team tonight. The offense was working and guys like Wall, Hinrich, Blatche and Thornton had open looks from 18 feet, but they kept pump-faking and giving the defense time to recover. It was like everyone caught Caron Butler disease.

Our biggest problem is that this team just can't shoot very well. Arenas is the only guy who you can count on to hit a jumper. Arenas was 4-8 from 3-point range. The rest of the team was 0-8.

[nate33]

Oh yeah, it was really nice to see Gil play well. I was rooting for him big time. It almost looked like he was going to save the day there. He hit a few threes and we cut the lead down to 6. We then stole the ball and had a possession to cut it within 3. Nick Young (I think) missed a 3-pointer on the break and then New York scored the next 5 points. Game over.

[pancakes3]

Our biggest problem is that this team just can't shoot very well. Arenas is the only guy who you can count on to hit a jumper. Arenas was 4-8 from 3-point range. The rest of the team was 0-8.

i don't think so. we're a decent shooting team with blatche (when he's got his wind and legs under him), hinrich, thornton, and young all capable of shooting out to 18 feet with great regularity. true hinrich had a pretty bad night shooting last night but overall it's not a "team problem" imo.

i just hope Wall learns from this game that the fast break game isn't just... "get to the rim as fast as possible". that doesn't work when you've got 3 guys sitting under the rim waiting for you. last night when amare drew the charge brought back a flood of Larry Hughes memories which gave me the willies. Wall was out-of-control fast out there - and almost iverson-esque in his "i'll just drive to the hoop and hope that good things happen" in his mentality.

in contrast, as i was flipping over to the celtics-bulls game, rondo drove clearly with the intention of drawing the double team - so much so to the point where he was slowing down so the help defender can keep up. rose was controlled in his dribble, not turning on the afterburners until he knew definitively where his driving lane was going to be. if wall could take that 0.4-0.6 seconds to read the defense and react instead of blindly charging forth it would help his game so much.

it's reassuring that his TO's are fixable TO's. lazy passes, getting caught up in the air without a target in mind, etc. it's not like he was getting pickpocketed, or overpressured like hinny was.

[closg00]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

I agree and so hasn't Saunders seen that? Wall is a great player but I too agree that Saunders is giving him too much responsibility. It was mentioned that Gil and Wall looked uncomfortable on the floor together. Gil is probably more comfortable coming off the bench so that he won't be labeled as taking the ball away from Wall. In reality Gilbert should be the leader until Wall gets his feet wet in the NBA. I just think it's the wrong way to bring in a Rookie with too much responsibilities. I think Wall is getting into this hype of him being so fast that he's turning over the ball. He's young so he's going to get all excited about being known as speedy.

Meh, Wall is our PG of the future. I have no interest whatsoever in playing him off the ball to "get his feet wet"; he's not an off-the-ball player. Wall had a bad game. It happens with rookies. Flip should keep letting him run the offense. He'll learn quicker that way.

What should change is Hinrich. I'd much rather have Gil play point when Wall is out. Hinrich should fight Young for backup minutes at SG, that it. And I'm not convinced that Hinrich should beat out Young.

I'm not quite as disappointed in McGee as the rest of this board. Yes, he definitely needs to get better defensively, but he had some stretches there where he really did make a difference in stopping guard penetration. I also like that he is crashing the boards hard. 8 boards in 25 minutes isn't bad at all.

I thought Wall looked really tentative with his jumper. In the last few games, he looked like he was developing a bit more confidence with his shot. Today, his shot was flat with no rotation. He looked like he was afraid to shoot. Indeed, that was a problem with most of our team tonight. The offense was working and guys like Wall, Hinrich, Blatche and Thornton had open looks from 18 feet, but they kept pump-faking and giving the defense time to recover. It was like everyone caught Caron Butler disease.

Our biggest problem is that this team just can't shoot very well. Arenas is the only guy who you can count on to hit a jumper. Arenas was 4-8 from 3-point range. The rest of the team was 0-8.

I co-sign on all of the points above

Edit: Wall will be very Rondo-like in time, much more under controlled, but not a shooter. We just need to get Wall better help and he will improve as-well.

[Hoopalotta]

I actually think Wall will eventually be a nice shooter, especially off the dribble. His stroke can be quite smooth, you know, when it is as opposed to when it isn't. But when it is, he looks about as good pulling up as anyone. Rondo has much more of a levered-hitch feel to his shot.