ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,680
And1: 20,311
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#221 » by dckingsfan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:31 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Probably just speculation on what could transpire if things don't improve. I do think an Asik for Gortat trade makes sense, but only if we get another asset in return. You can argue who the better player is but Asik's balloon payment next year is not easy to swallow. This trade gives them a viable replacement for Asik who is also an expiring.

I'd do it straight up. Don't need an asset in return. That balloon payment is in real money, but not in cap dollars so it doesn't hurt us from a team-building perspective. Also, Asik is 2.5 years younger than Gortat, and he's an iron man who has never missed a game.

Asik is a dominant rebounder who would let us get away with playing small ball. Nene backs him up at center and plays some PF alongside him. The rest of the PF minutes would go to Ariza and Porter. No more Ernie's Kids in the lineup.


I tend to agree. The roster is flawed fundamentally of because Nene's insistence to play the 4. If you play him there, you need another big which leads to the spacing issues. If we ever really want to play small ball w/o sacrifcing rebounding, we need a guy like Asik. If this doesn't turn around in the near future the only focus the Fo should have the rest of the year is moving Nene. Until he is moved there will always be a conflict in terms of how we should play and what we could do based on personnel.


I don't think Nene is rebounding at a high enough level to play C. So, it is more of he doesn't want to and can't.
jivelikenice
Analyst
Posts: 3,074
And1: 145
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#222 » by jivelikenice » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:42 pm

I can only think of two scenarios where Nene is dealt w/o throwing in an asset (like Otto - which I wouldn't do). Perkins- This has been mentioned numerous times here. We get out of Nene's deal on year earlier. Would OKC make this move? They take on an extra year of salary but they clearly become a better team with this trade. OKC would have to throw a couple of contracts this way (i.e. Thabheet/ PJIII?)

Eric Gordon- I'm not sure what New Orlean's plan is but they invested a lot in Tyreke and traded for Holiday. Gordon has had a solid start to this year but the team hasn't and he can't be in their long-term plans with his health issues. For us he might work. We need a 3rd guard. He may not love that role but playing a combo guard role behind Wall/Beal and playing 25 minutes a night might be best for his career long-term.


Amare- He looks like a shall of himself and he makes more than Nene but we can get out of the deal one year sooner. His contract is uninsured which is a bigger hurdle. Would NY throwing a young player like Shumpert into the deal be enough enticement to pull the trigger? Would NY take Nene's 3rd year with their goal of landing Love in '15...(LOL)
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#223 » by fishercob » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:51 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:I'm thinking a three way where we get Asik and Montejiunas, the Nets get Nene, and the Rockets get KG.

I don't really see the incentive for the Nets. The only advantage Nene has over KG is that he can play some center, but the Nets already have Lopez there.

As much as I'd like to see it, I don't think it's possible to turn Nene into Asik. There's no 3rd party that would make it work. We're not giving enough value.

I think it has to be Gortat for Asik. The value is even so there might be a 3rd party who could make it work (assuming that Houston doesn't want Gortat themselves).


WHy wouldn't Houston want Nene though? We know Morey fancied Nene (and wanted to pair him with Gasol). They could trade Asik and Jones for Nene and have it work under the CBA. They might pay a bit of lux tax over the next few years but they may be able to avoud it and they also might be willing to do so contending for titles. Nene is a perfect fir there as a 25-28mpg starting 4 and backup 5.

The Wizards would have fit issues with Gortat and Asik, but whatever. Absorb the sunk cost on Gortat, let him walk and sign a better fit in free agency. Max out Greg Monroe. Or trade Ariza and TJones and Glen Rice for Ilyasova. Asik-Ilyasova frontcourt? Turkish Delight, baby!
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,124
And1: 22,555
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#224 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:54 pm

jivelikenice wrote:I can only think of two scenarios where Nene is dealt w/o throwing in an asset (like Otto - which I wouldn't do). Perkins- This has been mentioned numerous times here. We get out of Nene's deal on year earlier. Would OKC make this move? They take on an extra year of salary but they clearly become a better team with this trade. OKC would have to throw a couple of contracts this way (i.e. Thabheet/ PJIII?)

Eric Gordon- I'm not sure what New Orlean's plan is but they invested a lot in Tyreke and traded for Holiday. Gordon has had a solid start to this year but the team hasn't and he can't be in their long-term plans with his health issues. For us he might work. We need a 3rd guard. He may not love that role but playing a combo guard role behind Wall/Beal and playing 25 minutes a night might be best for his career long-term.


Amare- He looks like a shall of himself and he makes more than Nene but we can get out of the deal one year sooner. His contract is uninsured which is a bigger hurdle. Would NY throwing a young player like Shumpert into the deal be enough enticement to pull the trigger? Would NY take Nene's 3rd year with their goal of landing Love in '15...(LOL)

I would vomit if we traded Nene for Amare. Amare isn't merely dead weight. He's dead weight that is owed $44M over the next two years (relative to Nene who is owed $39M over the next 3 years and can actually still play basketball at a high level, albeit in limited minutes).

Nene for Gordon makes no sense either.

* Nene for Perkins is a framework that could work out for both teams.
* Nene for Rudy Gay is also feasible but not particularly useful for us.
* Nene for Boozer (trade deadline next year) might make sense under the pretense that Chicago won't have useful cap room when Boozer's contract is up in 2015 so they may as well trade him for a 2016 contract and reboot then.
* Nene for Garnett (trade deadline next year) could work under the same rationale as Nene for Boozer.
* Nene for Bargnani
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#225 » by hands11 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:07 pm

TGW wrote:Also, here is a rumor on ESPN's inRumor section that Gortat may be on the trading block. Maybe he goes in a trade for Asik?


Without thinking this all the way through, I like Gortat on the team. I hope they can keep him.

Now is not the time to panic. Now is the time to get the rotations right and get to the easier part of the schedule. Get some wins and evaluate from there. And get Otto healthy already.

Never trade from a point of weakness if you can avoid it. They failed with Crawford last year doing that. In a year without Wall starting, they could have really cranked up Crawfords value before trading him. Instead they yanked his chain by forcing him to stay coming off the bench while starting lesser players over him. And all that on a team that struggled with spacing, ball handling and players that could create their offense in a pinch.

Meanwhile, Boston moves Crawford into the starting PG position with Rondo out and he is producing solid numbers for them and running the offense. He even played well off the bench.

Shot attempts per 36 down, efficiency up, assists up.

ORtg 121 DRtg 104 TOV% 11.7 AST% 29.6 TS% .587
jivelikenice
Analyst
Posts: 3,074
And1: 145
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#226 » by jivelikenice » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:07 pm

I wouldn't trade for Amare either. Just threw out scenarios under which a team would be willing to take Nene off of us. He couldn't even finish easy layups yesterday. His body is done.

Rudy Gay- Have they experimented with him at the 4? I haven't watched them play this year? I can see he is still shooting at a ridiculius clip.

Boozer has had a decent start to the season. With their injury woes I don't think they'd want Nene and they can always amnesty Boozer
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#227 » by fishercob » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:12 pm

hands11 wrote:
TGW wrote:Also, here is a rumor on ESPN's inRumor section that Gortat may be on the trading block. Maybe he goes in a trade for Asik?




Never trade from a point of weakness. . .


Great advice.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,124
And1: 22,555
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#228 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:15 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Boozer has had a decent start to the season. With their injury woes I don't think they'd want Nene and they can always amnesty Boozer

You misunderstand. I'm not saying the Bulls are trying to get rid of Boozer. I'm saying that, come Trade Deadline of 2015, Chicago will see that Boozer is going to be a free agent that they won't want to resign to a long term deal. If they let him walk, they'll only have the MLE to replace him. Rather than do that, they could trade him for Nene and thereby retain Nene until 2016 (when Noah also comes off the books). In 2016, everyone but Rose is gone and they'll have the cap room to add some big name free agents (Durant, Lebron, Bosh, Horford, etc.)
jivelikenice
Analyst
Posts: 3,074
And1: 145
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#229 » by jivelikenice » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:17 pm

nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Boozer has had a decent start to the season. With their injury woes I don't think they'd want Nene and they can always amnesty Boozer

You misunderstand. I'm not saying the Bulls are trying to get rid of Boozer. I'm saying that, come Trade Deadline of 2015, Chicago will see that Boozer is going to be a free agent that they won't want to resign to a long term deal. If they let him walk, they'll only have the MLE to replace him. Rather than do that, they could trade him for Nene and thereby retain Nene until 2016 (when Noah also comes off the books). In 2016, everyone but Rose is gone and they'll have the cap room to add some big name free agents (Durant, Lebron, Bosh, Horford, etc.)


Gotcha...Quickly read your original and thought you meant this yr.
LyricalRico
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 30,563
And1: 853
Joined: May 23, 2002
Location: Back into the fray!
Contact:
       

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#230 » by LyricalRico » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:19 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Boozer has had a decent start to the season. With their injury woes I don't think they'd want Nene and they can always amnesty Boozer


If CHI's master plan includes amnestying Boozer, trading him instead for mostly expiring contracts might be interesting for them depending on what else was in the deal. I also think they need to move Deng for a true SG and move Butler back at SF since he's probably the future there. Maybe combine those two moves to remake their team?

I'll have to play with the checker and see if anything pops out.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#231 » by hands11 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:36 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Probably just speculation on what could transpire if things don't improve. I do think an Asik for Gortat trade makes sense, but only if we get another asset in return. You can argue who the better player is but Asik's balloon payment next year is not easy to swallow. This trade gives them a viable replacement for Asik who is also an expiring.

I'd do it straight up. Don't need an asset in return. That balloon payment is in real money, but not in cap dollars so it doesn't hurt us from a team-building perspective. Also, Asik is 2.5 years younger than Gortat, and he's an iron man who has never missed a game.

Asik is a dominant rebounder who would let us get away with playing small ball. Nene backs him up at center and plays some PF alongside him. The rest of the PF minutes would go to Ariza and Porter. No more Ernie's Kids in the lineup.


I tend to agree. The roster is flawed fundamentally of because Nene's insistence to play the 4. If you play him there, you need another big which leads to the spacing issues. If we ever really want to play small ball w/o sacrifcing rebounding, we need a guy like Asik. If this doesn't turn around in the near future the only focus the Fo should have the rest of the year is moving Nene. Until he is moved there will always be a conflict in terms of how we should play and what we could do based on personnel.


Well, lets see what things look like with Webster starting and the Wizards running more more pick and roll on offense. It wasn't just Wall I saw doing it. I saw Beal do a pick n roll bounce pass last game. I also saw Webster do it once as well. I think a starting line up with Webster in it could be very smooth, balanced, team oriented. ala what SA does.

Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, Gortat should be an effective line up. Temple, Glen and Ves should be an effective defensive minded bench to integrate with those players as you rest them one or two at a time. And the bench should get better once you add Otto to it and even better when you add Trevor A back to it. Some combination of Webster, Trevor A and Otto should produce your S4 line ups, not using AH on a regular basis.

What they are missing off the bench is a Blair, Boris Diaw type. If they can find a way to do that vs Kevin S (unless head removed from ass), I think the roster actually looks pretty damn good. Specially with Maynor and AH on the extended bench. Biggest problem I see has to do with Randy, not the roster. He turned to AH and Maynor who should be end of the bench, not core rotation and he removed Webster ( their emotional leader) from the starting line up. Get your young energy defenders out there, scrap and run. And get Webster back in the starting line up. Things will look much better.

This teams roster doesn't suck. They just haven't found their grove yet with the right line ups and rotations. They don't have Otto and they probably need to move Kevin S and Singleton for a Blair like PF/C bench player. That's why I was interesting in Cartwright or Osby in the draft. Sully would look really good coming off our bench.

Kevin S, Singleton, Booker are assets I would use to get Sully or DeJuan Blair or something similar.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#232 » by hands11 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:41 pm

nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:I can only think of two scenarios where Nene is dealt w/o throwing in an asset (like Otto - which I wouldn't do). Perkins- This has been mentioned numerous times here. We get out of Nene's deal on year earlier. Would OKC make this move? They take on an extra year of salary but they clearly become a better team with this trade. OKC would have to throw a couple of contracts this way (i.e. Thabheet/ PJIII?)

Eric Gordon- I'm not sure what New Orlean's plan is but they invested a lot in Tyreke and traded for Holiday. Gordon has had a solid start to this year but the team hasn't and he can't be in their long-term plans with his health issues. For us he might work. We need a 3rd guard. He may not love that role but playing a combo guard role behind Wall/Beal and playing 25 minutes a night might be best for his career long-term.


Amare- He looks like a shall of himself and he makes more than Nene but we can get out of the deal one year sooner. His contract is uninsured which is a bigger hurdle. Would NY throwing a young player like Shumpert into the deal be enough enticement to pull the trigger? Would NY take Nene's 3rd year with their goal of landing Love in '15...(LOL)

I would vomit if we traded Nene for Amare. Amare isn't merely dead weight. He's dead weight that is owed $44M over the next two years (relative to Nene who is owed $39M over the next 3 years and can actually still play basketball at a high level, albeit in limited minutes).

Nene for Gordon makes no sense either.

* Nene for Perkins is a framework that could work out for both teams.
* Nene for Rudy Gay is also feasible but not particularly useful for us.
* Nene for Boozer (trade deadline next year) might make sense under the pretense that Chicago won't have useful cap room when Boozer's contract is up in 2015 so they may as well trade him for a 2016 contract and reboot then.
* Nene for Garnett (trade deadline next year) could work under the same rationale as Nene for Boozer.
* Nene for Bargnani


As next year moves, all these make sense as does looking at Monroe this off season. As would be targeting an amnestied Boozier. That's exactly what would help off the bench.

Right now, let it roll and get the line ups right. I still think this can be a good team with what they have if used properly. Then moving forward you might be able to build something like...

Wall/Temple
Beal/Glen
Webster/Otto
Nene/Boozier
Monroe/Gortat/Ves

Gortat here or not is a question. Maybe try to bring back Okafor. Get something for Trevor A, Kevin, Singleton and move Maynor if you can. Add some depth a SG which shouldn't be to hard. Add a speedy small back up PG. They can still make a very solid team with the right moves.
User avatar
mohammed10
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,857
And1: 155
Joined: May 26, 2007
Location: Playoffs? Playoffs? Yes, playoffs dammit
 

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#233 » by mohammed10 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:24 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Probably just speculation on what could transpire if things don't improve. I do think an Asik for Gortat trade makes sense, but only if we get another asset in return. You can argue who the better player is but Asik's balloon payment next year is not easy to swallow. This trade gives them a viable replacement for Asik who is also an expiring.


Late to the Asik discussion, but I am not sold on Asik. Don’t get me wrong he is a good player, especially on the defensive end, but I honestly don’t think he is that much, if any of an upgrade over the Polish Hammer. It’s almost like he’s being made out to be the 2nd coming of Dikembe Mutombo on the Rockets fanboard! That and per ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/99783 ... kets-again), Houston has denied Asiks trade request.
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

'If' - by Rudyard Kipling
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,124
And1: 22,555
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#234 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:45 pm

mohammed10 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Probably just speculation on what could transpire if things don't improve. I do think an Asik for Gortat trade makes sense, but only if we get another asset in return. You can argue who the better player is but Asik's balloon payment next year is not easy to swallow. This trade gives them a viable replacement for Asik who is also an expiring.


Late to the Asik discussion, but I am not sold on Asik. Don’t get me wrong he is a good player, especially on the defensive end, but I honestly don’t think he is that much, if any of an upgrade over the Polish Hammer. It’s almost like he’s being made out to be the 2nd coming of Dikembe Mutombo on the Rockets fanboard! That and per ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/99783 ... kets-again), Houston has denied Asiks trade request.

I don't think he's any better than Gortat either. If he was better than Gortat, it would be nonsensical for Houston to consider it.

I do think Asik is younger and more durable than Gortat. And I think he is under contract for a year longer than Gortat. For a team building toward competing a few years down the road, those are desirable qualities.
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,353
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#235 » by verbal8 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:49 pm

what nate33 said

mohammed10 wrote:It’s almost like he’s being made out to be the 2nd coming of Dikembe Mutombo on the Rockets fanboard! That and per ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/99783 ... kets-again), Houston has denied Asiks trade request.


How many times do GMs deny trade requests and then end up trading the player? Him being kept completely out of a game makes me think they are at least attempting to deal him.
User avatar
tontoz
RealGM
Posts: 20,266
And1: 5,037
Joined: Apr 11, 2005

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#236 » by tontoz » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:49 pm

I think Asik is probably better on D and on the boards than Gortat, worse on offense. His turnover rate is alarming.
"bulky agile perimeter bone crunch pick setting draymond green" WizD
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,680
And1: 20,311
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#237 » by dckingsfan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:08 pm

tontoz wrote:I think Asik is probably better on D and on the boards than Gortat, worse on offense. His turnover rate is alarming.


I think you want to get Asik and not trade Gortat. It is depth we are missing. I would love to have a Asik/Gortat/Nene FC rotation.

I think that Booker and Seraphin aren't going to get their this year.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,680
And1: 20,311
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#238 » by dckingsfan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:10 pm

verbal8 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Since Asik is on the block - I thought I would ask the question: which teams are most in need of a C?

I would say, Atlanta, Charlotte, Boston, New York, New Orleans, Sacramento and Washington.

Of those teams, which have the best assets for Houston? I would say that Houston's biggest need is for a defensive rebounding stretch 4.


I think Denver offers a very interesting 3rd option for an Ariza-Asik deal. They have a TPE that can acquire Ariza and they want to move Faried, who I think would be a great option for the Rockets. I think the Rockets have to send an asset to the Nuggets to make it happen(but they have some young cheap talent that should have good trade value). While Faried and Dwight in the frontcourt rotation have spacing issues if playing together, I think they also represent match-up issues for the other team - especially considering the options Houston has like Parsons and Motiejunas that can help spread the floor.


You have a good point there - I just worry that Denver overvalues Faried.

I will say that Denver has made a hot mess of what used to be a pretty good team.
LyricalRico
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 30,563
And1: 853
Joined: May 23, 2002
Location: Back into the fray!
Contact:
       

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#239 » by LyricalRico » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:57 pm

^ In a vacuum, Ariza for Asik is something I would do. But with Gortat and Nene already here, it seems Asik would have similar issues with minutes. I don't think you can play Gortat/Asik together.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,340
And1: 6,711
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXV 

Post#240 » by TGW » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:09 pm

LyricalRico wrote:^ In a vacuum, Ariza for Asik is something I would do. But with Gortat and Nene already here, it seems Asik would have similar issues with minutes. I don't think you can play Gortat/Asik together.


No offense to Gortat, but any future moves should not be made with him in mind. Gortat is a free agent this summer, and it would make more sense for the team to address the position if they can.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.

Return to Washington Wizards