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Political Roundtable Part XI

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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#221 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 9, 2016 4:45 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:This really needs to be a wakeup call to the Dems. They continually (and often rightly) point to the conservative echo chamber that exists, but they created a really strong one of their own this election. And honestly, I wonder if that wasn't a part of the brilliance (intended or not) of Trump as a candidate, because trying to talk to anyone who intended to vote Democrat or who supported them, Hillary and all, about the fact that Trump might win and that there was real frustration out there in the electorate that the Democrats weren't willing to address tended to prompt loud, emotional responses prompted by a shutting down of the conversation. Honestly, not so different from Republican pundits who kept saying that Trump would flame out before the primaries started. And really, the Democrats had their own massive warning alarm with Bernie, but they chose to try and quiet it down enough to make Hillary the candidate and then opted to ignore once she was the candidate.

And it turns out that the Obamas telling people to vote for Hillary isn't quite as motivating in terms of getting people out to vote as the Obamas telling people to vote for Obama himself. Go figure? I mean, if the Obamas told everyone to go out and eat black liquorice for a day, nobody would do it except for maybe a few scattered freaks and weirdos likely on various government registries. There is a distinct difference in terms of just how motivated people are to take guidance based on how appealing they actually find that guidance. And as an aside, I still think there will never be true equality until black liquorice tastes like anything besides sugar and hate.

Well said.

Dems shoulda ran a fresh, new face out there. Not Hillary on a power quest.

Tulsi Gabbard will be the first female POTUS. (Only God knows).


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#222 » by tontoz » Wed Nov 9, 2016 4:46 pm

Hillary didn't get indicted over the email scandal but it surely cost her the election.

Still hard to get a grip on Trump as President. I was like the perfect contrarian indicator for Trump. The only time I gave him a chance to win was right after he won the primaries and sure enough his poll numbers promptly tanked. Then I went back to dismissing his chances and of course he came back.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#223 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Nov 9, 2016 4:47 pm

Saddest I've ever seen Bill Clinton.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#224 » by montestewart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 4:54 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:trying to talk to anyone who intended to vote Democrat or who supported them, Hillary and all, about the fact that Trump might win and that there was real frustration out there in the electorate that the Democrats weren't willing to address tended to prompt loud, emotional responses prompted by a shutting down of the conversation.


I encountered quite a bit of that myself, along with scoffing whenever I suggested that Democrats might try a little harder to court some of that "angry white vote." The outcomes in PA, WI, and MI say maybe they ought to try harder next time.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#225 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 9, 2016 4:59 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:This really needs to be a wakeup call to the Dems. They continually (and often rightly) point to the conservative echo chamber that exists, but they created a really strong one of their own this election. And honestly, I wonder if that wasn't a part of the brilliance (intended or not) of Trump as a candidate, because trying to talk to anyone who intended to vote Democrat or who supported them, Hillary and all, about the fact that Trump might win and that there was real frustration out there in the electorate that the Democrats weren't willing to address tended to prompt loud, emotional responses prompted by a shutting down of the conversation. Honestly, not so different from Republican pundits who kept saying that Trump would flame out before the primaries started. And really, the Democrats had their own massive warning alarm with Bernie, but they chose to try and quiet it down enough to make Hillary the candidate and then opted to ignore once she was the candidate.

And it turns out that the Obamas telling people to vote for Hillary isn't quite as motivating in terms of getting people out to vote as the Obamas telling people to vote for Obama himself. Go figure? I mean, if the Obamas told everyone to go out and eat black liquorice for a day, nobody would do it except for maybe a few scattered freaks and weirdos likely on various government registries. There is a distinct difference in terms of just how motivated people are to take guidance based on how appealing they actually find that guidance. And as an aside, I still think there will never be true equality until black liquorice tastes like anything besides sugar and hate.

Well said.

Dems shoulda ran a fresh, new face out there. Not Hillary on a power quest.

Tulsi Gabbard will be the first female POTUS. (Only God knows).


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Heck, they didn't even need a fresh face.

If Biden had run I think he pummels Trump.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#226 » by montestewart » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:00 pm

tontoz wrote:Hillary didn't get indicted over the email scandal but it surely cost her the election.

Still hard to get a grip on Trump as President. I was like the perfect contrarian indicator for Trump. The only time I gave him a chance to win was right after he won the primaries and sure enough his poll numbers promptly tanked. Then I went back to dismissing his chances and of course he came back.

It's like for years in the 90s whenever I'd attend a Bullets game at Cap Centre they would win (which was saying something back then when they usually won even less than under EG). I wrote Abe to convince him that me getting a couple of free courtside season tickets was the key to the Bullets getting back on top. He kindly responded with a half-off coupon for a three-game plan on the 400 level. It had a half-off hot dog option.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#227 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:18 pm

Induveca wrote:
montestewart wrote:
closg00 wrote:Ok, Republicans control everything, now let's see them govern. How-quickly will we see the wall pledge in the garbage bin?

Hopefully immediately. Too expensive.


He's a construction guy, that's one thing I actually expect him to follow through on, the threat to make Mexico pay for it is somewhat straightforward.

Expect to see iPhones constructed in the USA, some factories trickling back from Mexico and a lot of tariffs and bills sent to Mexico.

I don't agree with it, but if he can convince the senate/house it saves far more than it costs longterm?

Not a chance :)

Indu - you know we don't have the infrastructure or engineers to massively produce iPhones.

And no way Mexico is going to pay anything - they may just open the southern boarder to annoy Trump.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#228 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:22 pm

tontoz wrote:Hillary didn't get indicted over the email scandal but it surely cost her the election.

Still hard to get a grip on Trump as President. I was like the perfect contrarian indicator for Trump. The only time I gave him a chance to win was right after he won the primaries and sure enough his poll numbers promptly tanked. Then I went back to dismissing his chances and of course he came back.

I don't think so - I think that if Hispanics had voted for Hillary in the numbers expected, this is a different election. And Blacks got apathetic and didn't turn out.

But yes to Trump - I don't see good things happening. Guessing we have a sea change in 2 or 4 years.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#229 » by closg00 » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:24 pm

Does anyone think that Comey's "re-opening" of the investigation only to clear Clinton later have any effect on the vote?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#230 » by closg00 » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:29 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
tontoz wrote:Hillary didn't get indicted over the email scandal but it surely cost her the election.

Still hard to get a grip on Trump as President. I was like the perfect contrarian indicator for Trump. The only time I gave him a chance to win was right after he won the primaries and sure enough his poll numbers promptly tanked. Then I went back to dismissing his chances and of course he came back.

I don't think so - I think that if Hispanics had voted for Hillary in the numbers expected, this is a different election. And Blacks got apathetic and didn't turn out.

But yes to Trump - I don't see good things happening. Guessing we have a sea change in 2 or 4 years.


Clinton did not hold the Obama coalition, Trump ended up getting the same % of Hispanic vote as Romney.
Don't discount the 3rd party vote either, Trump won by razor-thin margins in: MI, PA, & WI.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#231 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:34 pm

closg00 wrote:Does anyone think that Comey's "re-opening" of the investigation only to clear Clinton later have any effect on the vote?

I sure do.

If you thought Hillary was "crooked" to begin with, that just served to reinforce that belief.

Of course the skeptic in me thinks that may have been the goal in the first place.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#232 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:39 pm

Wizardspride wrote:Heck, they didn't even need a fresh face.

If Biden had run I think he pummels Trump.


I'm not even so sure about that. He might have won, and he'd have been a much better candidate, but Biden would have run the risk of becoming the Democratic Mitt Romney, in a way. Biden is alright as a hype man, but wearing a clock around your neck isn't the same thing as writing, believing and delivering a message that everyone can get behind and is inspired by. I'm not convinced Biden would have had that message, either.

And I don't think the email scandal sank Hillary, either. I think it hurt her a lot, but I think even without it, she'd have found a way to lose anyway, because without inspiring anybody, she just doesn't win these things. She lost to Obama in the primaries despite a massive head start and institutional supports, and she almost lost to Bernie (a much weaker candidate than Obama) again. I think Michelle Obama would have run away with the presidency, had she wanted to run, regardless of whether or not she's suited for the job.

Really, right now the Democrats are going to be faced with a few choices, two key options among them are:

(1) to blame external factors like Hillary's emails, the Russians, the FBI, racists/biggots/sexists, etc.

and

(2) looking internally and realizing that maybe their message isn't quite as perfect as they think it is, and might actually need to bend a bit, because clearly many voters aren't happy with accepting just anything as a policy provided it doesn't come with sexist, racist or other bigoted overtones

Those two options aren't mutually exclusive, either, It just so happens that right now, I see a lot of #1 happening, and not a lot of #2. I actually see a lot of #2 (or at least their own version of #2) happening within the Republican party right now, and have since Trump basically destroyed their establishment in the primaries. It doesn't mean the Republicans will change - I'm certainly not holding my breath - but at least part of the party there seems to have gotten the message, although whether or not they'll ever accept what they need to change given some of the things they won't be willing to change is another matter.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#233 » by JWizmentality » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:49 pm

AFM wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:The very thought of Obama "turning over the keys" to a man who questioned his birthright, his academic achievements etc etc just bothers me on a visceral level.

Yeah, I can't even watch that ****.


No kiddin. nate was right...not that Trump would somehow get substantial minority vote, but that the white vote would turn out. And turn out they did. The America of yesterday beat the America of tomorrow, but this was mostly due to what a horrible candidate Hiliary was. Didn't want to vote for her and if the Repubs presented a viable candidate like Kasich, I would have voted for him.

Well, life goes on. Whether this turns out good or bad, I hope the Trump supporters are ready to accept the potential far reaching consequences of their vote. You wont be able to blame Obama. Nite all.


At least you admit HRC was a terrible candidate

Bernie would have crushed Trump...IMO!


Oh I never supported Hillary. She was garbage. I voted for her because Trump. Bernie would have crushed all comers, but the DNC is corrupt and unfathomably incompetent.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#234 » by J-Ves » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:52 pm

AFM wrote:Who would you rather have??

Trump as president??

Or

E.G. As GM for another 8 years???

I want 8 years of E.G. as prez. Then the rest of the world can feel our pain.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#235 » by JWizmentality » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:53 pm

Well, I have an open mind. Let's see how far back or forward republicans take this country. I'm not optimistic, but we'll see.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#236 » by cammac » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:55 pm

Well the barbarians sacked the Republic the troglodytes have taken over who dispute science, basic human rights and religiously & racially intolerant. Can see 6 to 9 months in the future a huge degree of buyers remorse and you have got your own Rodrigo Duterte a two bit authoritarian. Welcome to Canada the True North strong and free.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#237 » by AFM » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:55 pm

I'm cautiously optimistic. Mostly because I think Trump is not actually conservative in the least.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#238 » by AFM » Wed Nov 9, 2016 5:55 pm

That tweet at the end is classic!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#239 » by Induveca » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Induveca wrote:
montestewart wrote:Hopefully immediately. Too expensive.


He's a construction guy, that's one thing I actually expect him to follow through on, the threat to make Mexico pay for it is somewhat straightforward.

Expect to see iPhones constructed in the USA, some factories trickling back from Mexico and a lot of tariffs and bills sent to Mexico.

I don't agree with it, but if he can convince the senate/house it saves far more than it costs longterm?

Not a chance :)

Indu - you know we don't have the infrastructure or engineers to massively produce iPhones.

And no way Mexico is going to pay anything - they may just open the southern boarder to annoy Trump.


Assembled, not constructed. It's a start.

Also disagree about the wall, the US does have a lot of leverage over wealthy business owners in Mexico. Just one favorable deal with Carlos Slim and a few others pays for the wall.

Or if they don't? Making a logical case of how much border security currently costs in terms of law enforcement, entitlements etc etc.

One thing I learned in this election, don't say impossible. Especially when Trump has control of all branches of government.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#240 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 9, 2016 6:04 pm

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.

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