Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[80sballboy]

Well, forget Jameer Nelson. The Bulls are now reportedly keeping him, which is fine.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, Michael Lee says Wiz are interested in Nelson. Better than Frazier? He's a better shooter but he's really slowed down at 35.

Nelson? He's not a good player, and if he's better than Frazier, it's a marginal difference. I'd have ZERO interest in him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Well, forget Jameer Nelson. The Bulls are now reportedly keeping him, which is fine.

Whew!

Now if I can get my blood pressure back down...



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[Wiz99]

Wiz could have made a VERY similar offer to Chicago for Mirotic. Would you have done it?

Bulls send
* Mirotic
* 2018 second round pick

Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big)
* Frazier, McCullough, Mac (vs NOP's Allen and Nelson, comparable poo poo platter of expirings worth $4.5M)
* 2018 1st round pick
* Rights to swap 2021 2nd Round Picks

I'd be hard pressed to say "no". We lose a first again, but get a young (26) forward who can actually shoot the 3 (43%, 6 attempts/gm) which is a hell of a lot better than Markief, and we get out of Mahinmi's contract. Will have to put some of that towards Mirotic resigning after next year, but we probably save $7-8M off our 2019-20 cap number.

[payitforward]

...Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big) ....

Only to you, Nat, is $48m (Mahinmi) "comparable" to $34m (Asik).

[pcbothwel]

Wiz could have made a VERY similar offer to Chicago for Mirotic. Would you have done it?

Bulls send
* Mirotic
* 2018 second round pick

Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big)
* Frazier, McCullough, Mac (vs NOP's Allen and Nelson, comparable poo poo platter of expirings worth $4.5M)
* 2018 1st round pick
* Rights to swap 2021 2nd Round Picks

I'd be hard pressed to say "no". We lose a first again, but get a young (26) forward who can actually shoot the 3 (43%, 6 attempts/gm) which is a hell of a lot better than Markief, and we get out of Mahinmi's contract. Will have to put some of that towards Mirotic resigning after next year, but we probably save $7-8M off our 2019-20 cap number.

I dont think I would, but that said, Ian and Asik are NOT comparable. Ian is a better player, but is owed 31M after this year. Asik is owed 14M. Its literally half the money, so I have no reason to believe the Bulls would be interested.

[payitforward]

Here's a low key trade that I could see the Wizards doing at the deadline:

Washington trades: Jason Smith + $5.1M cash
Utah trades: Ekpe Udoh

The trade saves $2.2M from the payroll this year and $2.3M from the payroll next year. Factoring luxtax penalties, that's a savings of $5.5M this year and $5.75M next year. Effectively, Ted pays out $5.1M to make the trade happen, but saves $11.25 overall. That's a net savings of $6.2M.

Meanwhile, Utah makes $600,000 in the exchange, and could probably utilize Jason Smith more so than Udoh.

Given Utah's FO can do arithmetic, they aren't giving Ted an $11m savings for $600k, so I'm sure the terms would be different.

That said, I wouldn't do it if I were Utah. Udoh is having quite a good season for them. He's a terrific defender & shot-blocker. Smith would be a big down-grade from Udoh.

[NatP4]

Why do they look at these by NBA standards old dudes and don't understand that speed and quickness wins f****** games?

Why would they be interested in a guard???? The last two games Frazier and Satoransky have 28 assists and 4 turnovers. Two wins.

If they add Jameer Nelson it will do nothing good and will very possibly ruin chemistry.

They think they need a "veteran" PG. That's just stupid.

well we need a scoring guard that can handle the ball and create his shot to replace Meeks. I agree though, we don't need another point guard for replacing Wall when he's out.

J michael was just speculating, he wasn't reporting

[NatP4]

...Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big) ....

Only to you, Nat, is $48m (Mahinmi) "comparable" to $34m (Asik).

what did this have to do with me? keep your unnecessary insults to yourself

[Wiz99]

Wiz could have made a VERY similar offer to Chicago for Mirotic. Would you have done it?

Bulls send
* Mirotic
* 2018 second round pick

Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big)
* Frazier, McCullough, Mac (vs NOP's Allen and Nelson, comparable poo poo platter of expirings worth $4.5M)
* 2018 1st round pick
* Rights to swap 2021 2nd Round Picks

I'd be hard pressed to say "no". We lose a first again, but get a young (26) forward who can actually shoot the 3 (43%, 6 attempts/gm) which is a hell of a lot better than Markief, and we get out of Mahinmi's contract. Will have to put some of that towards Mirotic resigning after next year, but we probably save $7-8M off our 2019-20 cap number.

I dont think I would, but that said, Ian and Asik are NOT comparable. Ian is a better player, but is owed 31M after this year. Asik is owed 14M. Its literally half the money, so I have no reason to believe the Bulls would be interested.

Asik has a 3rd year ETO for $12M and he'd be crazy to opt out. No one's paying him more than that when he's 33.

So, The Mahinmi/Asik contracts are relatively comparable. Both 3 years, $48M vs $37M. Ian's a serviceable backup, Asik is dead weight.

[payitforward]

Could we do Jodie Meeks+ Distant 2nd rounder for Mario Hezonja? Orl is going to lose him for nothing anyways I can't see him being that much worse then meeks if at all. The we also get out of Meeks 2nd year.

Why would Orlando take on Meeks? To get a "distant" RE2 pick, maybe a low one? No. Meeks has demonstrated that he's cooked.

[NatP4]

Could we do Jodie Meeks+ Distant 2nd rounder for Mario Hezonja? Orl is going to lose him for nothing anyways I can't see him being that much worse then meeks if at all. The we also get out of Meeks 2nd year.

Why would Orlando take on Meeks? To get a "distant" RE2 pick, maybe a low one? No. Meeks has demonstrated that he's cooked.

Greg Monroe was just bought out, what makes you think the magic can get more for Hezonja? He's going to be UFA for everyone, and he most likely doesn't appeal to most "win now" teams.

[nuposse04]

Could we do Jodie Meeks+ Distant 2nd rounder for Mario Hezonja? Orl is going to lose him for nothing anyways I can't see him being that much worse then meeks if at all. The we also get out of Meeks 2nd year.

Why would Orlando take on Meeks? To get a "distant" RE2 pick, maybe a low one? No. Meeks has demonstrated that he's cooked.

ORL is one of the few FOs in the league that has a team devoid of direction, much like ourselves. I don't see any reason for them not to acquire assets whenever possible. It is't like FAs are going to be lining up to play there any time soon. Not that the 2nd rounder is going to turn into anything in all likelihood but 1 year of Meeks on their books next season ain't going to matter either. Plus Meeks might try to buy out.

Agreed Meeks sucks tho. Like...really sucks.

[payitforward]

I think we are all (Mostly) in agreement that we want to keep our 2018 pick, get under tax, add talent.
So... If we trade Smith, Meeks, 2019 pick, and cash, we can take back about 2.5M and stay under the tax.
Smith, Meeks, 2019 pick, and cash to:

Bulls for Valentine or Portis
Kings for Justin Jackson... or Skal and Mason
Mavs for Kleber and Ferrell
Pacers for Leaf... or Anigbogu and Joe Young

Thoughts?

First off, that's very imaginative thinking!

I'd do it in a minute for Valentine or Portis based on value, but I think the Bulls would (& should) rate both guys way too high to bite on this trade.

Plus, the problem w/ the Portis version is that he gets his 2d deal the same year as Oubre. Similar problem w/ both Kleber & Ferrell. We'd have to have a plan to trade one of Wall/Beal/Porter.

If I thought we would trade Wall, however, I'd do your deal for Jerian Grant.

The Sac'to deal works well, but... I'm worried Skal is going to be a bust.

Great ideas!

[payitforward]

...Wiz send
* Mahinmi (vs NOP's Asik, comparable money for comparable yrs (3) for comparable 31 yr old backup big) ....

Only to you, Nat, is $48m (Mahinmi) "comparable" to $34m (Asik).

what did this have to do with me? keep your unnecessary insults to yourself

All I was thinking of was your "it's not my money" comment. &, if it's not your money, then sure the $$ are "comparable."

I didn't mean any insult, Nat, but I can see why you might have reacted to it that way -- sorry to give the wrong impression!

[NatP4]

Only to you, Nat, is $48m (Mahinmi) "comparable" to $34m (Asik).

what did this have to do with me? keep your unnecessary insults to yourself

All I was thinking of was your "it's not my money" comment. &, if it's not your money, then sure the $$ are "comparable."

I didn't mean any insult, Nat, but I can see why you might have reacted to it that way -- sorry to give the wrong impression!

oh okay, sorry, I see what you were getting at now. I forgot I had posted that comment.

[payitforward]

Damn. Would have been a good opportunity to get a starting level center for the MLE. Good for Monroe and the Pels though.

??

Monroe gets his full salary from Phoenix minus whatever the Pels pay him (i.e. veteran minimum -- no reason to ask for more). Then at season's end he is unrestricted.

How does the MLE enter into this?

[payitforward]

A man can dream right:
- Sign Monroe
-Gortat & Meeks to Bucks for Snell & Maker
-Maker & Jason Smith to 3rd team with cap space for a 2nd (Mavs, Suns Kings)

Under tax, with 3 picks in 2018 draft (2 in top 35), ...

More imaginative thinking -- & there was another clever one I skipped.

What, are you on some new medication?

[payitforward]

...I honestly hate trying to seem like a know it all and dumb down the process of being a GM. But I truly think its quite simple in this regard.
1) Get the star player / Face of Franchise: This is one AS/All-NBA player (Wall for us).
2) Get compliment star(s): Our Beal and Otto.

The first two steps are obviously the hardest, but really the most important. ...

Those steps weren't hard for us, though.

The ping pong balls handed us an overall #1 (we would have picked 8th -- & no doubt taken Monroe) & an overall #3 (again we were meant to pick #8: Caldwell-Pope? Carter-Williams? Trey Burke?)

...The 3rd step is how to surround those 2-3 players with a winning team, and in the NBA, it seems simple.
3) Keep / Obtain a top 40 pick every year, and dont trade your 1st in back to back years
4) Use about 20% of the cap (About 20M with one being 10-13M from cap space, and the other 8-9 from MLE) for Two players, with at least one a versatile starter on the back end of Prime (28/29 y/o). ...

That too should have been easy for us -- we had 3 high picks in 2011. Even if we hadn't picked Leonard & Jimmy Butler, R1 that year was filled w/ guys who wind up fitting your bill (not veterans obviously, but still...).
I'd say Gortat could be viewed as that "starter... back end of prime..." Not to mention Trevor Ariza, whom we let walk for no reason.

Of course you'll make some mistakes too -- Martell Webster.

You now have 2-3 AS caliber players (or thereabout), 2-3 players on rookie deals, and 2 FA's in their prime who are real pros...

I.e. Wall, Beal, Porter, 2-3 guys on rookie deals from the 2011 draft, Gortat & Ariza.

5) you have about 5-6 spots you need to fill. 1 or 2 will be late 2nds or UDFA that are G-League/depth players you are hoping contribute, but the other 4 should all be Vets looking to compete or buy outs.
I.E. Jerebko, Pachulia, Tyreke, West, Casspit, Mike Scott, Willie Reed, James Johnson, Dedmon, Nene, LRMAM, etc.

I feel like we see it every year, but teams make it much harder than it should be.

It's not the schema, it's the mistakes. What you describe is what we were trying to do. We just aren't able to judge talent in the draft well enough or make enough smart decisions about veterans & FAs (Okafor, Maynor, Harrington, et. al.).

One thing you don't mention is that good draft picks give you trade assets, meaning you have another way to acquire those vets you need. Had we made good picks in 2011 -- even 2 of the 3 -- & had we made the obvious best choices in R2 in 2012 (Green or Crowder, then O'Quinn w/ the pick we tossed away trading for Okafor), we would have had plenty of trade assets to use to acquire a Center, etc.

Instead we were forced to give away our R1 pick in 2014, followed by the long series of disastrous moves (broken by the pick of Oubre) & short-term irrelevant moves (Pierce for a year, Butler for a year) that got us in the pickle we're in now.

[nate33]

Here's a low key trade that I could see the Wizards doing at the deadline:

Washington trades: Jason Smith + $5.1M cash
Utah trades: Ekpe Udoh

The trade saves $2.2M from the payroll this year and $2.3M from the payroll next year. Factoring luxtax penalties, that's a savings of $5.5M this year and $5.75M next year. Effectively, Ted pays out $5.1M to make the trade happen, but saves $11.25 overall. That's a net savings of $6.2M.

Meanwhile, Utah makes $600,000 in the exchange, and could probably utilize Jason Smith more so than Udoh.

Given Utah's FO can do arithmetic, they aren't giving Ted an $11m savings for $600k, so I'm sure the terms would be different.

That said, I wouldn't do it if I were Utah. Udoh is having quite a good season for them. He's a terrific defender & shot-blocker. Smith would be a big down-grade from Udoh.

It's a $6.2M savings for Ted, not $11M. And Ted can't give away more than $5.1M in cash so it's hard to sweeten the pot. Actually, once you factor the pro-rated portion of salaries already paid to Smith and Udoh, the balance shifts a bit more to Utah's direction. It's actually a savings of about $1.9M for Utah, and a savings of about $4.9M for Ted.

And I don't think Utah can expect parity in the transaction. They're getting savings for doing absolutely nothing except answering the phone. Making $1.9M is better than making nothing at all. And the difference between Udoh and Smith isn't all that relevant next year because Gobert will be back and neither will play much.