Political Roundtable Part XXIV

[stilldropin20]

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[doclinkin]

pass through LLC's are essentially every single small business in the United States.

If you dont like big business(the billionaires like trump, koch, bezos, etc) and big banking (who prop up big business over small business with endless streams of money) then you actually support small business.

If you want small business to win.

Or if you want big business to lose. <--if you want big business to have less power...less money...less influence...then you must prop up small business.

Let's take walsh contruction company. They build your highways and your bridges. Over 80% in the US and almost 100% in illinois. Why? If 100 bridges get built in illinois in any given year why does Walsh contruction get to build 95-100 of them?

I would prefer to see a world when 100 bridges get built, 95 different small business build those bridges. And instead of Walsh gross 20 million per bridge and net $4Million, id rather see 95 different small businesses gross 20 million for 1 bridge and Net 3 million because they might be less efficient. <--and we iused to live in a world more like that...just 30 years ago.

We had an ACE hardware in every neighborhood. A local bread store. A local butcher. etc etc.

Why did it go away??? Why did big business win?

the answer is simple: tax codes. Corporate rates were raised while Carveouts and loop holes were created almost strictly for big business to thrive and small business to die a slow death.

the only small businesses to survive the tax codes of the past 40-50 years have been some restaurants, some doctor offices, some legal offices, some real estate offices, some bars. Everything else has gone full corporate, full chain.


^^^^and thats the biggest reason for the wage gap. mom and pop used to own a diner. or clothing store. or hair cuttery. or barber. mom and pop used to be able ot afford their own real estate, even live above their storefront.

large Corporation could afford to pay more for the real estate due to other loop holes and carve outs, driving the commercial rental rates up, which drove real estate taxes up.

Just so each and everyone of you could end up working for someone else and your opportunity to branch out on your own has been severely limited by the tax codes.

Bottom line: you support global elite or you support small business<--these 2 factions are at war with each other. And the small business world has only recently woken up and realized its all out war.

You children will all end up working for big business and never have the opportunity to own their own thing if this keeps going the way its going. And we are finding that things have not become less expensive, but in fact more expensive. Service is down. quality is down. care is down. And large business dont directly invest in their community like small business do...mom and pop sponsor local teams and outreach programs much more than big business.

You paid for those trumpet lessons for 7 years? Those piano lessons? maybe your child can open up a music school someday if small business can get/keep more competitive tax codes.

Who is this new guy posting? He should post more.

Democrats and Lefty types are not anti business. You need successful thriving economy to lift poor people out of poverty and into the working class. Ultimately you don't want people dependent on the social safety net, and trapped in a cycle of helplessness, you want useful worthy work for everyone. Lefty types tend to shop local, buy at farmer's markets, etc.

It is megacorporations that are antithetical to human values. The rules that allowed huge corporations to have the same rights as individuals are the largest mindf@#K of our political era. Corporations care only about maximizing CEO and shareholder profit, local businesses care about communities and relationships.

Ditto the moneyed Elite. Beyond a certain amount you cannot spend the wealth you accrue. Those accounts become inert like dragons hordes, passed down from generations if there is no estate tax. The Greatest Generation who survived WW2 and build out Middle Class and our national highway system and laid the groundwork for the internet and the hopeful future where the science of the Atomic Age would not only endanger the health of the planet but be the cure -- they worked under a tax code where Millionaires were taxed at a rate of %50. I do think the Trump tax cuts may be benefiting small businesses. They are also an hand out to billionaires and large corporations.

To me if you want to repatriate wealth and grow our economy you need to tighten up the loopholes that big business exploits, enforce anti-trust laws to focus on the Walmartization of America (Target, Amazon, and the massive media corporations) and encourage the little guy with a dream with grants and loans and tax support for businesses under a certain size. Business that invest in the infrastructure of the US. Sustainable energy. Etc. Pretty sure folks on both side of the aisle ought to support that. That's basically the entire platform of people like Senator Warren of Massachusetts.

[dobrojim]

What I (most) object to is being able to treat personal income in decidedly different ways.
Sort of like the carried interest loophole that was supposed to be gotten rid
(IIRC, it wasn't). Poor schmucks, like most working folks, who get paid an hourly wage are treated far
worse in how their income is taxed than people who can describe their income
in technically different ways. The golden rule at its finest.

[Jamaaliver]

Naivete and ignorance -- it's still weird how much coverage this network dedicates to this woman.

Ocasio-Cortez called out for claiming Pentagon $$ error could fund Medicare for all



Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was roundly fact-checked this week — by even liberal-leaning publications — for suggesting a reported $21 trillion in Pentagon accounting errors could fund most of the proposed "Medicare for all" health care program.

Ocasio-Cortez, one of the highest-profile figures among the new wave of liberal Democrats entering Congress in 2019, cited a Nation story about how $21 trillion in "Pentagon financial transactions" between 1998 and 2015 could not be documented or explained.

Ocasio-Cortez and others pushing "Medicare for all" have long faced questions about the government-backed health care program's price tag and how it could be funded. They often push back by noting Americans already spend enormous amounts on private insurance premiums and other out-of-pocket expenses, and taxpayers fund a variety of other costly government schemes that could be curtailed.

But multiple fact-checkers gave a clear verdict to Ocasio-Cortez’s suggestion that Pentagon accounting errors could largely cover the costs: it wasn’t true.

Vox sympathized with Ocasio-Cortez’s frustration with mammoth military spending but concluded: “[T]here’s no $21 trillion pot of gold that can be raided to pay for a comprehensive health insurance program, even though the United States really does spend an awful lot on the military.”

The New York Times agreed.



“The point, I think, was more about how we care so little about the ‘how do you pay for it’ when we are talking about war and military spending,” her spokesman told The Washington Post. “It’s only when we are talking about investing in the physical and economic well-being of our citizenry that we become concerned with the price tags.”

The Post, however, still described the original tweet as a “swing and a miss!” and awarded her claim “four Pinocchios.”

Fox News

[Jamaaliver]

Disgraceful, corrupt. Intentionally undermining the officials voters have elected into office:

Wisconsin Republicans to vote on weakening governor's power



Wisconsin Republicans, just weeks away from losing control of both the governor and attorney general's offices, planned dramatic lame-duck votes Tuesday on a sweeping attempt to limit the powers of incoming Democrats, a move that opponents decried as a last-gasp power grab and attempt to invalidate the election.

Another Republican proposal to move the 2020 presidential primary election from April to March appears to be dead. A Republican-controlled committee did not advance the plan Monday, and the panel's co-chairs said it didn't have enough votes to pass.

Once approved by the Legislature, the other measures would head to Republican Gov. Scott Walker for his signature just five weeks before he is replaced by Democrat Tony Evers. Republicans maintained majority control of the state Legislature in the November election, and thanks to the rare lame-duck session, Walker has a chance to leave one final mark on the state after losing his bid for a third term last month.

The Wisconsin maneuvering is similar to what Republicans did in North Carolina two years ago and to what is being discussed in Michigan before a Democratic governor takes over there. The bills were moving quickly in Wisconsin, having just been made public late Friday afternoon.

They also sparked protests at the Capitol reminiscent of the raucous demonstrations that resulted when Walker all-but eliminated collective bargaining for public workers in 2011. Those protests were massive and lasted weeks, but Republicans were poised Tuesday to complete their work much more quickly.

Associated Press

Spoiler:

The remaining proposals would weaken the governor's ability to put in place rules that enact laws and shield the state jobs agency from his control. Republicans also want to limit early voting to no more than two weeks before an election.

Other measures would weaken the attorney general's office by allowing Republican legislative leaders to intervene in cases and hire their own attorneys. A legislative committee, rather than the attorney general, would have to sign off on withdrawing from federal lawsuits. That would stop Evers and Kaul from fulfilling their campaign promises to withdraw Wisconsin from a multi-state lawsuit seeking repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

They made opposition to that lawsuit a central part of both of their campaigns and handcuffing their ability to get Wisconsin out of the case has fueled Democratic arguments that Republicans are trying to invalidate the will of voters.

Opponents have said many of the changes would likely be challenged in court, a process that could create even more gridlock in state government next year.

These ares pretty disgusting tactics in direct contrast to what the people of WI have chosen through free and fair elections.

[Jamaaliver]

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The problem with this line of thinking:

pretty much all LGBTQ candidates for office are running as democrats.

Comprehensive list of federally elected officials who identify as LGBTQ.

[doclinkin]

Naivete and ignorance -- it's still weird how much coverage this network dedicates to this woman.
...

“The point, I think, was more about how we care so little about the ‘how do you pay for it’ when we are talking about war and military spending,” her spokesman told The Washington Post. “It’s only when we are talking about investing in the physical and economic well-being of our citizenry that we become concerned with the price tags.”

They got you talking about it. She seems to be pretty skilled at calling attention to the issues that matter to her constituents, and to a youth voting block who are now engaged and interested in politics and energized about their ability to be heard.

In this case: what builds a better safer future for the majority of Americans: a bloated military budget? Or Health care. Investment in domestic economic initiatives. Infrastructure. Etc. We send so much federal pork to prop up the weapons industry, but attack social programs that are a minuscule portion of the budget. And no-bid contracts are slid to whichever contractor paid the right lobbyist to help out a senate campaign.

Now at this point, sure you could make the argument, if we cut federal spending in those industries then ok sure they would start selling those weapons elsewhere and hey we would suddenly have need of those weapons. But that amounts to extortion, no? And these are some very bright people who could surely find use for those R&D departments if they were tasked instead with examining the problems of sustainable energy, transportation innovations, biotech and medical innovations, prosthetic research for returning soldiers, etc etc etc. IF government contracts were given instead for domestic benefit more than overseas adventurism.

Would you prefer drone assassin robots to be flying overseas to murder foreign brown people, based on questionable human intelligence? Or would you prefer that tech be used to deliver your prescription from CVS to wherever your phone is, instead of loading your meatspace self into a ton of steel and driving cross town to pick up your bottles, while cursing all the traffic on the road.

Seems to me she is right that we can call for a change in priorities for a hopeful future, that focusing on innovations and green initiatives are what matter to young folk who will hopefully be on this planet longer than the old white-hairs who get elected every year. It will take a New Deal or Space Race level of effort. But if you believe the very smart people who study this sort of thing, we are at a critical point in our history, and ought to care far more about that than even how much money our president earned from Russian connections or whatever misspelled nonsense he tweeted after a cheeseburger fueled fever dream.

But she's smart to use the spotlight while she has it. Call it Charisma. Why is it a bad thing if Clinton or Reagan or Obama or Trump can attract cameras and notice. But she can't?. Because she's young? Female? Latina? Tell me why she should be dismissed. Seems to me she is already organizing principled pols to join her in pushing progressive causes.

[Sedale Threatt]

Disgraceful, corrupt. Intentionally undermining the officials voters have elected into office:

Wisconsin Republicans to vote on weakening governor's power



Wisconsin Republicans, just weeks away from losing control of both the governor and attorney general's offices, planned dramatic lame-duck votes Tuesday on a sweeping attempt to limit the powers of incoming Democrats, a move that opponents decried as a last-gasp power grab and attempt to invalidate the election.

Another Republican proposal to move the 2020 presidential primary election from April to March appears to be dead. A Republican-controlled committee did not advance the plan Monday, and the panel's co-chairs said it didn't have enough votes to pass.

Once approved by the Legislature, the other measures would head to Republican Gov. Scott Walker for his signature just five weeks before he is replaced by Democrat Tony Evers. Republicans maintained majority control of the state Legislature in the November election, and thanks to the rare lame-duck session, Walker has a chance to leave one final mark on the state after losing his bid for a third term last month.

The Wisconsin maneuvering is similar to what Republicans did in North Carolina two years ago and to what is being discussed in Michigan before a Democratic governor takes over there. The bills were moving quickly in Wisconsin, having just been made public late Friday afternoon.

They also sparked protests at the Capitol reminiscent of the raucous demonstrations that resulted when Walker all-but eliminated collective bargaining for public workers in 2011. Those protests were massive and lasted weeks, but Republicans were poised Tuesday to complete their work much more quickly.

Associated Press

Spoiler:

The remaining proposals would weaken the governor's ability to put in place rules that enact laws and shield the state jobs agency from his control. Republicans also want to limit early voting to no more than two weeks before an election.

Other measures would weaken the attorney general's office by allowing Republican legislative leaders to intervene in cases and hire their own attorneys. A legislative committee, rather than the attorney general, would have to sign off on withdrawing from federal lawsuits. That would stop Evers and Kaul from fulfilling their campaign promises to withdraw Wisconsin from a multi-state lawsuit seeking repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

They made opposition to that lawsuit a central part of both of their campaigns and handcuffing their ability to get Wisconsin out of the case has fueled Democratic arguments that Republicans are trying to invalidate the will of voters.

Opponents have said many of the changes would likely be challenged in court, a process that could create even more gridlock in state government next year.

These ares pretty disgusting tactics in direct contrast to what the people of WI have chosen through free and fair elections.

As somebody posted on the CA board, this isn't far off, from The Onion:

GOP-Controlled Wisconsin Legislature Votes To Dissolve State Rather Than Let Democrats Have It

MADISON, WI—Passing the measure along party lines, the GOP-controlled Wisconsin legislature voted Tuesday to dissolve the 30th state admitted to the union rather than let governor-elect Tony Evers and other members of the Democratic Party have it.

“This essential legislation officially dismantles the State of Wisconsin, thereby ensuring Democrats, who won every statewide executive office on the ballot last month, will have no legal authority within its borders,” said Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, explaining that it would be reckless to honor the fair election of Democrats to the state’s executive branch and far preferable for Wisconsin to cease existing and become instead a lawless wasteland of snow and ice.

“While we cherish the past 170 years of statehood, there is simply too much at stake right now to allow the clear will of the people expressed at the polls to ruin Wisconsin by putting Democrats into positions such as governor and attorney general.”

At press time, the Republican-led legislature had passed a follow-up resolution naming outgoing Governor Scott Walker the Eternal God-King of the former state of Wisconsin.

[Sedale Threatt]

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The problem with this line of thinking:

pretty much all LGBTQ candidates for office are running as democrats.

Comprehensive list of federally elected officials who identify as LGBTQ.

I'm pretty sure the GOP didn't have a single LGBT candidate for this cycle. Not one.

In addition:



So Candace can just keep on shucking and jiving.

[closg00]

Re: WI/PA/NC, it’s further proof that Republicans are shameless hypocrites who project THEIR bad intentions onto others, just disgusting abuse of power.

[Wizardspride]

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?s=19

[Pointgod]

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The problem with this line of thinking:

pretty much all LGBTQ candidates for office are running as democrats.

Comprehensive list of federally elected officials who identify as LGBTQ.

The problem is that STD is using a brain dead charlatan like Candace Owens as some kind of authority. She’s a propaganda tool and complete moron.

[Pointgod]

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?s=19

Hahahahahhahahahha

[Pointgod]

Naivete and ignorance -- it's still weird how much coverage this network dedicates to this woman.

Ocasio-Cortez called out for claiming Pentagon $$ error could fund Medicare for all



Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was roundly fact-checked this week — by even liberal-leaning publications — for suggesting a reported $21 trillion in Pentagon accounting errors could fund most of the proposed "Medicare for all" health care program.

Ocasio-Cortez, one of the highest-profile figures among the new wave of liberal Democrats entering Congress in 2019, cited a Nation story about how $21 trillion in "Pentagon financial transactions" between 1998 and 2015 could not be documented or explained.

Ocasio-Cortez and others pushing "Medicare for all" have long faced questions about the government-backed health care program's price tag and how it could be funded. They often push back by noting Americans already spend enormous amounts on private insurance premiums and other out-of-pocket expenses, and taxpayers fund a variety of other costly government schemes that could be curtailed.

But multiple fact-checkers gave a clear verdict to Ocasio-Cortez’s suggestion that Pentagon accounting errors could largely cover the costs: it wasn’t true.

Vox sympathized with Ocasio-Cortez’s frustration with mammoth military spending but concluded: “[T]here’s no $21 trillion pot of gold that can be raided to pay for a comprehensive health insurance program, even though the United States really does spend an awful lot on the military.”

The New York Times agreed.



“The point, I think, was more about how we care so little about the ‘how do you pay for it’ when we are talking about war and military spending,” her spokesman told The Washington Post. “It’s only when we are talking about investing in the physical and economic well-being of our citizenry that we become concerned with the price tags.”

The Post, however, still described the original tweet as a “swing and a miss!” and awarded her claim “four Pinocchios.”

Fox News

It’s pretty simple. They’re starting the right wing propaganda drive against her early. They know she’ll be a large presence in the Democratic Party and are trying to discredit her now because they can’t argue against her based on ideas. Same tactics Republicans used on Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi.

[dckingsfan]

pass through LLC's are essentially every single small business in the United States.

If you dont like big business(the billionaires like trump, koch, bezos, etc) and big banking (who prop up big business over small business with endless streams of money) then you actually support small business.

If you want small business to win.

Or if you want big business to lose. <--if you want big business to have less power...less money...less influence...then you must prop up small business.

Let's take walsh contruction company. They build your highways and your bridges. Over 80% in the US and almost 100% in illinois. Why? If 100 bridges get built in illinois in any given year why does Walsh contruction get to build 95-100 of them?

I would prefer to see a world when 100 bridges get built, 95 different small business build those bridges. And instead of Walsh gross 20 million per bridge and net $4Million, id rather see 95 different small businesses gross 20 million for 1 bridge and Net 3 million because they might be less efficient. <--and we iused to live in a world more like that...just 30 years ago.

We had an ACE hardware in every neighborhood. A local bread store. A local butcher. etc etc.

Why did it go away??? Why did big business win?

the answer is simple: tax codes. Corporate rates were raised while Carveouts and loop holes were created almost strictly for big business to thrive and small business to die a slow death.

the only small businesses to survive the tax codes of the past 40-50 years have been some restaurants, some doctor offices, some legal offices, some real estate offices, some bars. Everything else has gone full corporate, full chain.


^^^^and thats the biggest reason for the wage gap. mom and pop used to own a diner. or clothing store. or hair cuttery. or barber. mom and pop used to be able ot afford their own real estate, even live above their storefront.

large Corporation could afford to pay more for the real estate due to other loop holes and carve outs, driving the commercial rental rates up, which drove real estate taxes up.

Just so each and everyone of you could end up working for someone else and your opportunity to branch out on your own has been severely limited by the tax codes.

Bottom line: you support global elite or you support small business<--these 2 factions are at war with each other. And the small business world has only recently woken up and realized its all out war.

You children will all end up working for big business and never have the opportunity to own their own thing if this keeps going the way its going. And we are finding that things have not become less expensive, but in fact more expensive. Service is down. quality is down. care is down. And large business dont directly invest in their community like small business do...mom and pop sponsor local teams and outreach programs much more than big business.

You paid for those trumpet lessons for 7 years? Those piano lessons? maybe your child can open up a music school someday if small business can get/keep more competitive tax codes.

Who is this new guy posting? He should post more.

Democrats and Lefty types are not anti business. You need successful thriving economy to lift poor people out of poverty and into the working class. Ultimately you don't want people dependent on the social safety net, and trapped in a cycle of helplessness, you want useful worthy work for everyone. Lefty types tend to shop local, buy at farmer's markets, etc.

It is megacorporations that are antithetical to human values. The rules that allowed huge corporations to have the same rights as individuals are the largest mindf@#K of our political era. Corporations care only about maximizing CEO and shareholder profit, local businesses care about communities and relationships.

Ditto the moneyed Elite. Beyond a certain amount you cannot spend the wealth you accrue. Those accounts become inert like dragons hordes, passed down from generations if there is no estate tax. The Greatest Generation who survived WW2 and build out Middle Class and our national highway system and laid the groundwork for the internet and the hopeful future where the science of the Atomic Age would not only endanger the health of the planet but be the cure -- they worked under a tax code where Millionaires were taxed at a rate of %50. I do think the Trump tax cuts may be benefiting small businesses. They are also an hand out to billionaires and large corporations.

To me if you want to repatriate wealth and grow our economy you need to tighten up the loopholes that big business exploits, enforce anti-trust laws to focus on the Walmartization of America (Target, Amazon, and the massive media corporations) and encourage the little guy with a dream with grants and loans and tax support for businesses under a certain size. Business that invest in the infrastructure of the US. Sustainable energy. Etc. Pretty sure folks on both side of the aisle ought to support that. That's basically the entire platform of people like Senator Warren of Massachusetts.

Well first, the logic errors from the original post. It wasn't just the tax code that made those large corporations. It was government regulation. It was also scale and efficiency.

For example, it would be very difficult for a mom & pop shop to produce 5 automobiles. It would be very difficult if we had 1000s of small operating systems. And government regulation comes into play in operations like banks - the cost of a startup to comply with the government regulations is stifling. So, large corporations aren't going away where you need scale either for operations or to overcome government regulation(s) (and where Warren is so ineffective).

Reasonable anti-trust focus would be helpful - but we really don't have a party that could do that effectively or fairly, do we?

But back to taxes. You are absolutely correct that the carveouts are the killer ap for large corporations. And even more so when you have carevouts for individuals (it ruins any notion of trickledown economics).

But let me ask you - have you seen Warren advocating the removal of all tax carveouts? And the most recent tax cuts are unsustainable (especially when taken in context of this latest spending binge). Have you seen her come out for sustainable government? (gtn can rightly say that I am unfairly targeting Warren and he would be right given our other choice. But geez.)

[gtn130]

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Populism!

[closg00]

Just like we've been sayin

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[Pointgod]

The Flynn news is in and Mueller recommends no jail time! Damn he must have sung like a bird to get that sweetheart deal. Read the link it’s a great read.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/04/robert-mueller-sentencing-memo-for-former-trump-advisor-michael-flynn.html

Mueller in a sentencing memo said Flynn's "substantial assistance" to his probe warrants a light criminal sentence — which could include no jail time for the retired Army lieutentant general.
That assistance, which includes 19 interviews with Mueller's team and Justice Department attorneys, related to a previsouly unknown "criminal investigation," as well as to Mueller's long-running probe of the Trump campaign's and transition team's links or coordination with the Russian government.

[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

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