Deni Avdija - Part II

[nate33]

But I don’t see the trading of Jones really changing much of Deni’s role as a ballhandler. Maybe he'd handle the ball a little more if Tyus is traded but he'd still be secondary ball handler. The Zards would still need a lead guard and I don’t see anyone on the current roster who can fill that role…maybe Wright or Butler.

Plus, asking Deni to take on too much of a role as a lead ballhandler (and forcing him to possibly have to deal with smaller, pesky defenders) could become somewhat of a physical drain on him and affect his ability to do what he does best, which is defend 3-4 positions.

I'm thinking long term.

I agree that the team wouldn't really be much better if Tyus is moved and Deni replaced him at PG, because there's nobody nearly as good as Deni to replace Deni at forward. But 3 years from now, when we have a lot more talent, that will no longer be the case. I envision a team where everyone is 6-6 or taller and the team can switch everywhere, like the Celtics were two years ago with Smart, Brown, Tatum, Williams and Horford.

The hurdle in building such a team is having a big, switchable point guard. Deni could be that guy if he is developed to be that guy. I think it makes sense as a long term investment. That guy becomes the third most important player on a good team. Obviously we would still need a top tier perimeter scorer in the SGA/Anthony Edwards mold, and a top tier defensive big in the Bam Adebayo mold, and we don't have those guys yet.

[DCZards]

I’m just not seeing Deni as a future PG. Secondary ball handler, yes.

I’m not sure he’ll ever have the ballhandling chops to be a primary ball handler. Very few players 6-9 or taller can deal with the on ball pressure they’ll get from smaller, quicker players.

I like your idea of a starting team of players 6-6 or taller. But I don’t know how realistic that is. Smart, a primary ball handler on that Boston team you brought up, is 6-3…not even close to 6-6.

[queridiculo]

There are still people that don't see the obvious limitations in Deni's game, putting him at PG would be an absolute horror show.

His handle is WEAK, you're not doing him any favors letting him run the show.

[nate33]

I’m just not seeing Deni as a future PG. Secondary ball handler, yes.

I’m not sure he’ll ever have the ballhandling chops to be a primary ball handler. Very few players 6-9 or taller can deal with the on ball pressure they’ll get from smaller, quicker players.

I just don't think that's an issue anymore because anyone can bring the ball up the court these days. If Deni is guarded by some 6-3 ball hawk, just let Shamet bring the ball up the court while Deni takes that 6-3 shrimp down in the post and puts him under the basket.

Guys like Draymond, Luka, Jokic, Durant and Siakam routinely bring the ball up the court and get teams into their sets. Why not Deni?

[nate33]

I’m just not seeing Deni as a future PG. Secondary ball handler, yes.

I’m not sure he’ll ever have the ballhandling chops to be a primary ball handler. Very few players 6-9 or taller can deal with the on ball pressure they’ll get from smaller, quicker players.

I like your idea of a starting team of players 6-6 or taller. But I don’t know how realistic that is. Smart, a primary ball handler on that Boston team you brought up, is 6-3…not even close to 6-6.

Yeah, but he is built like a tank and has a 6-9 wingspan. He plays like a 6-6 guy. I used Smart not really because of his stature, but because of his style of game. He's not really a true point guard like Chris Paul or anything, and I don't expect Deni to be that either. But Deni could initiate the offense about like Marcus Smart or Draymond do.

[nate33]

There are still people that don't see the obvious limitations in Deni's game, putting him at PG would be an absolute horror show.

His handle is WEAK, you're not doing him any favors letting him run the show.

I think Deni has an extremely good handle, at least going right. His left hand still needs work.

[DCZards]

Guys like Draymond, Luka, Jokic, Durant and Siakam routinely bring the ball up the court and get teams into their sets. Why not Deni?

The first 4 guys you name are elite, future HOFers. I don’t think Deni will ever get to that level…of course I hope I’m wrong.

On top of that, they share the court with elite guards in Steph, Kyrie and Booker.

[nate33]

Guys like Draymond, Luka, Jokic, Durant and Siakam routinely bring the ball up the court and get teams into their sets. Why not Deni?

The first 4 guys you name are elite, future HOFers. I don’t think Deni will ever get to that level…of course I hope I’m wrong.

On top of that, they share the court with elite guards in Steph, Kyrie and Booker.

Well, yes. In my vision, Deni is not the top guard on the roster. He is the role player that allows us to best utilize our scoring guard. If our scoring guard is really small, like a Tyrese Maxey, then we can at least avoid pairing him with another small point guard by playing Deni at point. And if our scoring guard is bigger, like Anthony Edwards, then we can field a huge lineup with no short player to exploit defensively.

And whether or not those 4 guys I mentioned are HOFers is irrelevant. The point is, they're big players without point guard tier elite handles (except Luka) but don't have any trouble getting teams into their sets. They're HOFers not because of their handle, because of other attributes. Draymond in particular is unremarkable on offense but there still isn't any problem with him playing point guard.

[tontoz]

The biggest issue to me is the 3s. Guys with defensive versatility that can make 3s have a lot of value. Plus when guys have to close out on him it opens up easy drives.

[tontoz]

Deni is averaging 16.8 pts per 36 with a TS of 62%. He's shooting 40% from 3, he's making contested layups and he's actually dunking at times.

It seemed like he used to be allergic to dunking the ball. He is using the glass a lot more on layups. He used to try those soft finger rolls just over the front rim which are easy to miss and easy to block.

Looks like i put a hex on him with this post on 11/30. In Dec he is shooting 40% from the field, 20% from 3.

[queridiculo]

The biggest issue to me is the 3s. Guys with defensive versatility that can make 3s have a lot of value. Plus when guys have to close out on him it opens up easy drives.

Can't shoot, can't finish, struggles handling the rock.

There's a reason the kid didn't bet on himself, I just don't see it with him.

[closg00]

Gonna repeat what I wrote in one of these threads, I would not have re-upped any of: Deni, Corey, and Davis, and I would have slept like a baby. Trying Davis over Corey would be worth a try, but Wes is locked on his rotation apparently.

Denis contract is so fantastic you can not complain about that. Corry has value. Johnny you're just hoping.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Deni is a fine bench player, we are just asking too-much of him and playing him too-many minutes, on a good team he is. 10-15 minute player.

I stand by my comments

[trast66]

I think a lot of fans like Deni as his game is relatable to what fans think they were like when they played in high school or rec league, a unselfish teammate, makes the right passes, only shoots when open, high effort defender, smart player. But at the NBA level his athleticism is not adequate and the shooting is not nearly good enough. I don’t see him ever being a first or second ball handler, he would just be forced left and possession breaks down. He can stick in the league for many years but as a 7th or 8th guy.

[2Fluffy4U]

I am actually not worried at all. Deni now is in a win-win situation.
If he plays poorly - he gets traded and potentially benefit from not being under WUJ / tanking team.
If he lives up to his potential - he wins and the team wins.
Either way his future trajectory still on the rise. When this trend changes - then should he/fans worry.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I think a lot of fans like Deni as his game is relatable to what fans think they were like when they played in high school or rec league, a unselfish teammate, makes the right passes, only shoots when open, high effort defender, smart player. But at the NBA level his athleticism is not adequate and the shooting is not nearly good enough. I don’t see him ever being a first or second ball handler, he would just be forced left and possession breaks down. He can stick in the league for many years but as a 7th or 8th guy.

Nonsensical post.

He's a smart player, not to be confused with a stunted player. Every Wizards team he's played on since his rookie season has been awful defensively yet he continues to stand out on that end. Put him in an organization that holds players accountable on that end, and he'd be talked about in All-NBA defense context. But alas, we have a fanbase that has never stopped being enamored from the Gil Arenas glory days, that were really not all that glorious, so alas defense is a secondary thought.

As for his offensive ability he has potential, but will fully admit he has work to do. With that said, he's never been given latitude, like say younger players on other teams have been given to test things out with any type of rope. He played in the Beal years on a team that was trying to conquest the play-in tournament. Now, before the season even started, Kuzma and Poole were proclaimed to be the alphas on a team they had no business being named as such. So they once again have set up were a certain select players that could break wind in WUJ's face on a daily basis, and would still get minutes. Poole is a perfect example of this, Kuzma in many stretches of a game plays this way as well.

I'll be fair though, maybe WUJ has a mandate that he has to play these guys to have them hit the pavement. I still think there has to be a balanced approach with that said.

He's a elite swiss army knife, glue guy 4th or 5th starter on a championship team. He's never going to be an elite scorer, and I scoff at the fact that some make it out that he has to be in order to be an extremely important building block to a successful roster. There's no shame in that as the 9th pick in the draft either. Does that mean he doesn't have areas of his game that he needs to improve? Of course not, but some of the view of him on this board (a 10-15 a game player) are downright stupid.

Despite the handicaps he's been given from a basketball, politicking perspective, I have no doubt if he continues to approach the game the way he does, he'll minimize the flaws and make a lot of folks crowing in this thread look dumb.

Still 22, and oozing potential.

[NatP4]

The biggest issue to me is the 3s. Guys with defensive versatility that can make 3s have a lot of value. Plus when guys have to close out on him it opens up easy drives.

Can't shoot, can't finish, struggles handling the rock.

There's a reason the kid didn't bet on himself, I just don't see it with him.

He’s averaging 15 points 5 assists 7.6 rebounds on 58.6% TS.

3rd on the team in on/off differential among guys who have played atleast 500 minutes (behind Gafford and Coulibaly).

Hasn’t turned 23 yet. Exciting young winning player on a team friendly contract moving forward. Once we get Poole and Kuzma out of here and actually try to win games, Deni will shine.

[badinage]

^ Hear, hear.

[gesa2]

Deni is playing terrific, I’m glad we have him on a good contract for the next few years.
That said I don’t see him thriving after we trade our volume scorers, I see him thriving next to better scorers that we develop over the next 2-3 years.

[The Bandit]

Deni appears to have lost all confidence in his jumper again, very disappointing.

[dobrojim]

Deni appears to have lost all confidence in his jumper again, very disappointing.

That's what I saw last night. He's a virtual self check, not at the Ruffin level, but for the moment,
he's lost what he was showing earlier in the season.