Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[80sballboy]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

[lastemp3ror]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

If the main objective is to lose as much as possible, Kuzma should have been gone yesterday as well. What the Front Office is doing doesn't totally add up.

[AFM]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

If the main objective is to lose as much as possible, Kuzma should have been gone yesterday as well. What the Front Office is doing doesn't totally add up.

A trade involves two parties. Why is everyone on this board just assuming because Kuzma is still here it’s because the FO refuses to trade him?

I’m sure they’d love to trade Poole too. But these fellas are bad at basketball.

[Frichuela]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

If the main objective is to lose as much as possible, Kuzma should have been gone yesterday as well. What the Front Office is doing doesn't totally add up.

A trade involves two parties. Why is everyone on this board just assuming because Kuzma is still here it’s because the FO refuses to trade him?

I’m sure they’d love to trade Poole too. But these fellas are bad at basketball.

This. It may be that Kuzma’s trade value is much lower than consensus on this board…

For instance, despite social media reports, what if SAC did not offer anything substantial to trade for Kuzma other a few 2nd rounders?

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

Give me a break. This line of reasoning is so porous I don't even no where to begin. Oh actually, I do: You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and that what we did here was exactly that.

You don't trade your best young prospect who is still developing because you fear winning too much. There are plenty of other ways to manage tanking next season without trading said best young prospect who is still developing for a draft pick in the worst draft in memory and mystery meat sandwich of a 1st round pick 5 years down the row! Are they so inept that they can't engineer some good ole losing? And in theory do they believe Deni was that good that he'd impact wins and losses to that degree on his own even with the rest of the dumpster fire pulling him down? Seem they want it both ways, so are towing some bull middle-road argument. Again not opposed to trading Deni at some point if it made sense (key word: sense), but for Aldridge to say it was about us losing as much as possible, him accepting that line of reasoning, and regurgitating for his audience just shows the pathetic mentality that engulfs this franchise and the sycophants that claim to cover it.

Do we trade Bilal too midseason if he has us winning too many games? Tragically flawed logic here. Oh but the next excuse is Deni wasn't their guy. Now how petty is it to jettison a guy just because you didn't draft him.

You can't explain this one away. A debacle. I'm going to enjoy watching this franchise further fail from afar, they are a joke. Dawkin and Winger are the next EG and Shepp, they just look a little more hip doing it.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

If the main objective is to lose as much as possible, Kuzma should have been gone yesterday as well. What the Front Office is doing doesn't totally add up.

A trade involves two parties. Why is everyone on this board just assuming because Kuzma is still here it’s because the FO refuses to trade him?

I’m sure they’d love to trade Poole too. But these fellas are bad at basketball.

This. It may be that Kuzma’s trade value is much lower than consensus on this board…

For instance, despite social media reports, what if SAC did not offer anything substantial to trade for Kuzma other a few 2nd rounders?

Easy answer, no one wants him. Empty stats guy. With that being the case, you don't trade one asset just because Kuzma sucks.

[pancakes3]

As David Aldridge said, the whole point is to suck as much as possible this season. Even though they won just 15 games last season with Deni being a primary ballhandler for about 1/2 the season, they didn't want to take a chance that he'd be an even better player this season, which again, is strange, but winning 25-30 games is not the goal. It's 15-20 again. It's a painful process and I hated the deal at first, but I understand their direction. They just better hit on these draft picks and get lucky next season in the top 3. If not, then we'll be stuck in purgatory forever.

It worked with the Orioles, the Thunder and few other examples. Let's hope we continue adding picks for Jones, Kuzma and maybe Corey and Shamet.

Sucking as much as possible as the end goal is oversimplified, axiomatic, consultant-brained thinking. Sucking is a means to an end; the actual goal is to accumulate as much talent, as sustainably as possible. Talent can come from free agency signings or drafting, and you enhance your draft chances by sucking. It's a downstream, tertiary goal, behind the primary goal of accumulating talent, and a secondary goal of drafting well. It's losing the forest for the trees.

You don't see the Thunder trading away the picks they hit on (Lu Dort, Cason Wallace, Jalen Williams). Retaining young cheap talent is moneyball 101. It's a fool's errand to get suckered into galaxy-brain moneyball where you try to quantify the number of wins that keeping Deni would mean, and how that translates into lottery odds, and how that translates to the chances of drafting Flagg/Bailey/Boozers, and estimating how many wins Flagg/Bailey/Boozers would yield relative to Deni. It's too remote and complex to calculate in a meaningful way.

[pancakes3]

scooped by COSC

[Halcyon]

I don't ever see Deni being more than a 4th option on a good team, more likely a 5th option. And based on the fact that they dealt him, I would think that the front office thinks that too. If that's the case, then it's worth going for a guy like Bub, who they clearly believe in and will be even cheaper then Deni.

[lastemp3ror]

You don't see the Thunder trading away the picks they hit on (Lu Dort, Cason Wallace, Jalen Williams). Retaining young cheap talent is moneyball 101. It's a fool's errand to get suckered into galaxy-brain moneyball where you try to quantify the number of wins that keeping Deni would mean, and how that translates into lottery odds, and how that translates to the chances of drafting Flagg/Bailey/Boozers, and estimating how many wins Flagg/Bailey/Boozers would yield relative to Deni. It's too remote and complex to calculate in a meaningful way.

I do agree with you, however, there is a bit of irony in what you wrote there. Will Dawkins was working in the Front Office of OKC when all/most of those decisions were made

[pancakes3]

You don't see the Thunder trading away the picks they hit on (Lu Dort, Cason Wallace, Jalen Williams). Retaining young cheap talent is moneyball 101. It's a fool's errand to get suckered into galaxy-brain moneyball where you try to quantify the number of wins that keeping Deni would mean, and how that translates into lottery odds, and how that translates to the chances of drafting Flagg/Bailey/Boozers, and estimating how many wins Flagg/Bailey/Boozers would yield relative to Deni. It's too remote and complex to calculate in a meaningful way.

I do agree with you, however, there is a bit of irony in what you wrote there. Will Dawkins was working in the Front Office of OKC when all/most of those decisions were made

superheated summer swamp air is fogging up his brain then. or Wizards GM position is supernaturally cursed.

[badinage]

I don't ever see Deni being more than a 4th option on a good team, more likely a 5th option. And based on the fact that they dealt him, I would think that the front office thinks that too. If that's the case, then it's worth going for a guy like Bub, who they clearly believe in and will be even cheaper then Deni.

I think you could make a good argument that no one they've brought in -- Bilal, Vukcevic, Sarr, Carrington, George, Poole -- projects to be a 4th option on an ECF/Finals team.

[closg00]

Just noticed that Portland has the 4th pick in Rd2 of todays draft, the fact that we did not get this and instead got their 2028 & 2039 2nd rounders, is a continuation of Wizard trade weakness, the 3rd clear trade loss for the Wizards, Blazers owned us in the trade.

[dckingsfan]

Just noticed that Portland has the 4th pick in Rd2 of todays draft, the fact that we did not get this and instead got their 2028 & 2039 2nd rounders, is a continuation of Wizard trade weakness, the 3rd clear trade loss for the Wizards, Blazers owned us in the trade.

Oh boy, did they ever.

[daoneandonly]

Just noticed that Portland has the 4th pick in Rd2 of todays draft, the fact that we did not get this and instead got their 2028 & 2039 2nd rounders, is a continuation of Wizard trade weakness, the 3rd clear trade loss for the Wizards, Blazers owned us in the trade.

But would you really want that many picks in what many consider one of the weakest drafts in recent memory?

[The Consiglieri]

Part of the discrepancy here is the cohorts of people, some of whom are arguing against non-existent actual arguments. But I think you can break this down to:

*People who don't care because they didn't buy the ceiling bet on Deni's long term trajectory.
*People who didn't want him traded because he was the one and only guy drafted during the half ---ed period of this rebuild that actually developed into something special and still had further potentially to grow.
*People who thought the trade comp was reasonable: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a vet that can probably be moved for something, even if it's not much.


*The handful like me, who saw the exciting player, the cheap contract which would play out 75% to 100% in our ---- years, and viewed him as an asset it would be irresistible not to move.

I just never imagined it would be for some flimsy --- picks in the mid teens of a ghastly draft, and a draft a million years from now, and then throw away 2nds both a million years from now.

The payout only sounds reasonable if all you pay attention to are the rounds the picks are from, but does anyone, actually, only pay attention to the rounds picks are in, and nothing else? We've all seen hit rates, and the rapid descent in value of picks as you cruise through the first 2 or 3, out of the top 10 and after. A random first ages from now, and a mid 1st in a notoriously --- draft is not value in any universe, they are dart throws of little tangible value.

It all comes down to us fluking into a very high pick in '29, or Bub hitting a grand slam on his potential which I'm skeptical of, for totally justifiable reasons, but is technically possible. Otherwise, this will prove out to be one of the dumber, of an endless litany of horrible trades this team has made the past 28 years (Wallace, Webber, the 5 pick in '09, the Beal trade several years too late etc).

[closg00]

Just noticed that Portland has the 4th pick in Rd2 of todays draft, the fact that we did not get this and instead got their 2028 & 2039 2nd rounders, is a continuation of Wizard trade weakness, the 3rd clear trade loss for the Wizards, Blazers owned us in the trade.

But would you really want that many picks in what many consider one of the weakest drafts in recent memory?

For 2nd round pick money!?! Absolutely, here is a list of BPA’s for today. I would definitely take a look at Tyler Smith, KJ Simpson, Adem Bona, and more, take one and all the kids to Summer League and compete.
https://www.nba.com/news/bleacher-report-ranking-top-45-prospects-entering-round-2-2024-nba-draft

[FAH1223]

Part of the discrepancy here is the cohorts of people, some of whom are arguing against non-existent actual arguments. But I think you can break this down to:

*People who don't care because they didn't buy the ceiling bet on Deni's long term trajectory.
*People who didn't want him traded because he was the one and only guy drafted during the half ---ed period of this rebuild that actually developed into something special and still had further potentially to grow.
*People who thought the trade comp was reasonable: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a vet that can probably be moved for something, even if it's not much.


*The handful like me, who saw the exciting player, the cheap contract which would play out 75% to 100% in our ---- years, and viewed him as an asset it would be irresistible not to move.

I just never imagined it would be for some flimsy --- picks in the mid teens of a ghastly draft, and a draft a million years from now, and then throw away 2nds both a million years from now.

The payout only sounds reasonable if all you pay attention to are the rounds the picks are from, but does anyone, actually, only pay attention to the rounds picks are in, and nothing else? We've all seen hit rates, and the rapid descent in value of picks as you cruise through the first 2 or 3, out of the top 10 and after. A random first ages from now, and a mid 1st in a notoriously --- draft is not value in any universe, they are dart throws of little tangible value.

It all comes down to us fluking into a very high pick in '29, or Bub hitting a grand slam on his potential which I'm skeptical of, for totally justifiable reasons, but is technically possible. Otherwise, this will prove out to be one of the dumber, of an endless litany of horrible trades this team has made the past 28 years (Wallace, Webber, the 5 pick in '09, the Beal trade several years too late etc).

I think the 2029 pick is ammo to get another pick in 2025 or 2026.

As we just saw with Minnesota trading an unprotected 2031 pick for Dillingham.

[closg00]

…and with that 34th pick Portland gets Tyler Smith (projected to be a FRP)
Owned again, pissed about dumping picks for George, and pissed we didn’t get this 34th pick.

[Halcyon]

Freaking out over losing a mid player like Deni is something else. He showed almost no improvement over 3 years and finally played decent on a horrible team with large usage. My opinion is that he won't be much better on the Blazers

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