Wiz Acquire Hinrich, Seraphin, $3M for Veermenko's rights

GhostsOfGil · Post #241 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:30 pm

can we get a chat up?

sfam · Post #242 » by **sfam** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:33 pm

dopeismarcus wrote:I wish you guys would stop crying. Livingston was not going to come back, he wants to be a starter. Mike Miller is not coming back, he wants to play for a winning team. Were also getting the 17th pick in the draft. What more do you guys want?

+1

Some people are acting like Lebron after he got caught crab-dribblin. Jeeze, at least wait till after the pick before letting the tears fall, or to get out your pitchforks and torches...

Severn Hoos · Post #243 » by **Severn Hoos** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:35 pm

Well, as the guy who started up the Draft Kirk movement a full year and a half before Kirk joined the NBA, I can't turn my back on him now...

I'm pretty sure Ted signed off on this deal. And if he wants to spend his money, more power to him. The way I see it, he probably expects Melo to re-up with the Nuggets, and there's no one else worth spending $ on next summer. Then, figure that he'd prefer to let his young guys (Wall, McGee, etc.) grow a bit before spending money, then he's probably 2 years away from making a splash in FA anyway. So fronm a cap standpoint - if you're not targeting FAs until 2012 or beyond - then the deal is essentially cap neutral.

Add in the good citizen factor and that Hinrich has already shown a willingness to play the role of mentor, and I think Ted probably sees it as a good deal.

And of course, getting a solid rotation player at #17 would be great - IF we do get such a solid player.

It sounds odd, but this really could be a Ted-approved or even Ted-directed move.

BennyGfromFL · Post #244 » by **BennyGfromFL** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:41 pm

Congrats, guys. On a night when you should be celebrating the berth of the Wall era, your GM has instead opened the door for a Rose + Noah + Lebron + Bosh superteam, a team that you'd have to compete with in your own conference for the next 10 years. All for the privilege of grossly overpaying Kirk Hinrich and acquiring a potential role player at pick #17.

Grunfeld does know that only one team can win the championship every year, right? If his goal is to ultimately win a championship in the next 10 years, then this does not help.

queridiculo · Post #245 » by **queridiculo** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:43 pm

BennyGfromFL wrote:Congrats, guys. On a night when you should be celebrating the berth of the Wall era, your GM has instead opened the door for a Rose + Noah + Lebron + Bosh superteam, a team that you'd have to compete with in your own conference for the next 10 years. All for the privilege of grossly overpaying Kirk Hinrich and acquiring a potential role player at pick #17.

Grunfeld does know that only one team can win the championship every year, right? If his goal is to ultimately win a championship in the next 10 years, then this does not help.

Don't cry, dry your eye.

I'm still too upset about the championships Grunfelds moves at the deadline brought to the Mavericks and Cavaliers to form a rational response.

Tyrone Messby · Post #246 » by **Tyrone Messby** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:43 pm

Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

dopeismarcus · Post #247 » by **dopeismarcus** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:44 pm

BennyGfromFL wrote:Congrats, guys. On a night when you should be celebrating the berth of the Wall era, your GM has instead opened the door for a Rose + Noah + Lebron + Bosh superteam, a team that you'd have to compete with in your own conference for the next 10 years. All for the privilege of grossly overpaying Kirk Hinrich and acquiring a potential role player at pick #17.

Grunfeld does know that only one team can win the championship every year, right? If his goal is to ultimately win a championship in the next 10 years, then this does not help.

Shutup

DaRealHibachi · Post #248 » by **DaRealHibachi** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:49 pm

Tyrone Messby wrote:Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

True Story.... :lol:

BennyGfromFL · Post #249 » by **BennyGfromFL** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:52 pm

Tyrone Messby wrote:Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

Not trying to be a troll, just frustrated with GM moves that I really don't understand. It's like they can't see two feet in front of their face and recognize how it'll impact the NBA landscape over the next decade, a landscape that they'll have to compete in. Let's say Wall develops into a super stud and you pick up other nice pieces -- still nobody is getting by that Chicago team (we're not talking Jamison here, we're talking potential 90s era Jordan/Pippen.)

Probably should have said "sorry, guys", as reading back on a lot of these posts, most of you guys aren't too thrilled either.

VictorPage44 · Post #250 » by **VictorPage44** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:54 pm

I'll add some optimism: I dont care that Hinrich is overpaid because the Wizards' cap space doesnt do me any good. At worst, he's a tradeable asset next offseason (yes he can still play despite what all the pessimists have to say- look no further than game 3 vs. the cavs). At best, Hinrich is an instant upgrade and an extra pick at #17 is a huge bonus. Let the speculation begin (I guess wallowing in self pity was the boards' first option), but I'd look to target Sanders or Alabi there. Who knows, maybe aldrich will slide.

Once again, it does us no good to have the most cap space in the league if we do nothing with it. That's just a different version of the Redskins-winning the offseason, except the Redskins actually intended to win in the regular season as well.

DaRealHibachi · Post #251 » by **DaRealHibachi** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:04 am

Great trade...

We improve our guard play significantly by adding leadership, defense and 3 point shooting... And ofcourse that 17th pick... Which probably will end up being Aldrich, Alabi or Seraphin... Another need filled...

Pondexter with the 30th would be a perfect draft...

Severn Hoos · Post #252 » by **Severn Hoos** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:05 am

The irony for me is that I've been a huge fan of James Anderson for a year and a half, he'd be a natural pick at #17, and could very well be the BPA when we're on the board. But would they really draft another guard to go with Wall, Arenas, Hinrich, and Young? Unless EJ's coming back, how could you have all those guys on one team?

Post #253 » by **miller31time** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:08 am

BennyGfromFL wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

Not trying to be a troll, just frustrated with GM moves that I really don't understand. It's like they can't see two feet in front of their face and recognize how it'll impact the NBA landscape over the next decade, a landscape that they'll have to compete in. Let's say Wall develops into a super stud and you pick up other nice pieces -- still nobody is getting by that Chicago team (we're not talking Jamison here, we're talking potential 90s era Jordan/Pippen.)

Probably should have said "sorry, guys", as reading back on a lot of these posts, most of you guys aren't too thrilled either.

Don't feel bad - I completely agree with you. It was a stupid move on a number of levels. First of all, it screws over the Wizards. We aren't even getting a friggin expiring back from Chicago. Hell, we're not even getting a good pick...it's the 17th selection for god sakes.

Then, we're making a potential dynasty in Chicago. There's a pretty good shot of them landing a stellar free agent or two and we're helping them do it!

dopeismarcus · Post #254 » by **dopeismarcus** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:22 am

miller31time wrote:
BennyGfromFL wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

Not trying to be a troll, just frustrated with GM moves that I really don't understand. It's like they can't see two feet in front of their face and recognize how it'll impact the NBA landscape over the next decade, a landscape that they'll have to compete in. Let's say Wall develops into a super stud and you pick up other nice pieces -- still nobody is getting by that Chicago team (we're not talking Jamison here, we're talking potential 90s era Jordan/Pippen.)

Probably should have said "sorry, guys", as reading back on a lot of these posts, most of you guys aren't too thrilled either.

Don't feel bad - I completely agree with you. It was a stupid move on a number of levels. First of all, it screws over the Wizards. We aren't even getting a friggin expiring back from Chicago. Hell, we're not even getting a good pick...it's the 17th selection for god sakes.

Then, we're making a potential dynasty in Chicago. There's a pretty good shot of them landing a stellar free agent or two and we're helping them do it!

17th pick is not a good pick?

Just to name a few: Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Jermaine Oneal and Doug Christie were all picked at 17.

bgroban · Post #255 » by **bgroban** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:24 am

Bron'Bron and Bosh are stats guys. They fill up the boxscore.

Chicago ain't winning anything with those two.

BennyGfromFL · Post #256 » by **BennyGfromFL** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:35 am

miller31time wrote:
BennyGfromFL wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Get out of here troll, people said the same thing when he traded Jamison to Cleveland. We all saw how that worked out.

Not trying to be a troll, just frustrated with GM moves that I really don't understand. It's like they can't see two feet in front of their face and recognize how it'll impact the NBA landscape over the next decade, a landscape that they'll have to compete in. Let's say Wall develops into a super stud and you pick up other nice pieces -- still nobody is getting by that Chicago team (we're not talking Jamison here, we're talking potential 90s era Jordan/Pippen.)

Probably should have said "sorry, guys", as reading back on a lot of these posts, most of you guys aren't too thrilled either.

Don't feel bad - I completely agree with you. It was a stupid move on a number of levels. First of all, it screws over the Wizards. We aren't even getting a friggin expiring back from Chicago. Hell, we're not even getting a good pick...it's the 17th selection for god sakes.

Then, we're making a potential dynasty in Chicago. There's a pretty good shot of them landing a stellar free agent or two and we're helping them do it!

Right, if you recognize what you're allowing the Bulls to do by freeing up capspace (trading, essentially, Hinrich and the #17 for the ability to sign Bosh, thus making it a perfect fit for Lebron) you should at least do like what Morey did to the Knicks and Donnie Walsh. Morey KNEW how important and valuable it was for Walsh to free up cap room for two maxes, so he acquired 3 likely top 10 first round picks (including Jordan Hill) and only took on Jeffries' 6 mill for 1 year.

This is the way the market SHOULD be, and I feel like Riley made the trade yesterday (trading the #18 to shed Daquan Cook's 2 million) working under Donnie Walsh's precedent. You give up assets based on whom you can potentially sign with that freed up capspace, and you evaluate the trade that way.

Given Morey's precedent, it's pathetic to take on Hinrich and only get the #17 for granting them the ability to get two maxes and potentially create a dynasty.

Liverbird · Post #257 » by **Liverbird** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:37 am

This really isn't only about the Wizards helping out Chicago - albeit true enough - there are 4 other teams available to offer 2 Max contracts with Miami having Wade as well. I don't understand the focus on Chicago. Miami is the one every team should worry about.

My feeling towards the trade is meh....Kirk is still a useful player, good locker room guy, and good defensively. The contract's not ideal but since I don't think we'll we signing any significant FAs the cap space doesn't matter. The 17th pick is nice and my hope is that there's a backroom deal to move up with #17 + #30 or #34.

cdouglas · Post #258 » by **cdouglas** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:19 am

I thought the Wizards were getting the #17 pick from Chicago?

SportsWorld · Post #259 » by **SportsWorld** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:26 am

cdouglas wrote:I thought the Wizards were getting the #17 pick from Chicago?

The Bulls picked for them. The deal can't be completed until July 8th.

tontoz · Post #260 » by **tontoz** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:33 am

The Wizards need a big body down low so i can see taking a chance with the 17th pick. However i don't see Hinrich and Arenas starting the season in a Wizards uniform. I would bet that one if not both will be traded before the season starts. it doesn't make sense to have so much tied up in the pg position.