Wiz 2010 General Season Tracker - Grading - How we doing ?

[TheGreatWall]

I'm impressed with Booker. He can guard opposing power forwards defensively, and he can draw opponents out of lane, granted he starts hitting that j with consistency (and I know he will). He has a deceptively quick first step...kinda herky-jerky move that's going to keep a slower defender a step behind.

Good draft pick.

Seraphin, OTOH, looks out-of-shape and lost on the court. He's raw. Summer league would have helped tremendously.

[Wizardspride]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/10/4 ... #storyjump

According to Flip Saunders, now that Andray Blatche is going full speed, one of the objectives will be to get him on the same page as everyone else.

During the scrimmage Flip spent time talking with Blatche about his mistakes. Flip said, "he has some stupid fouls, if your going to be a main guy, a starter type, you can't have stupid fouls." He indicated that big guys in particular pick up fouls when fighting for position in the paint, so Blatche can not afford to pick up "fouls 50 feet from the basket, which he has a tendency to do."

Flip felt that Yi played a pretty good game. He felt that the last two days at camp, Yi was able to get "his legs underneath him and with that he has been a lot more lively shooting the ball and running the floor." While they haven't had a chance yet to play Yi, Blatche and McGee together, he does look forward to the opportunity to see how it will work.

Another player that he has felt has had a strong camp was Hilton Armstrong. Flip felt that he actually performed better than JaVale McGee.

The biggest area of concern that he has with JaVale is on the defensive boards. He said, "we have to get JaVale defensive rebounding, right now." He went on to say that JaVale has a lot of style plays, but he needs to focus on the fundamentals of the position. "With him we need more substance, than style. He's always been a style guy and we've got to get some substance out of that position," said Saunders.

Saunders was not disappointed that Arenas was unable to scrimmage. Initially, it sounded as if he was suggesting that Arenas had pulled a veteran move and developed a phantom injury to get out of practice. However, he later clarified that Gilbert that this was not the case and that Arenas did indeed sprain his ankle.

Flip indicated that if he had to decide today on his starting guards, and if based that decision solely on what he has seen in camp, then Wall and Hinrich would be his starters. He said, "Wall and Hinrich have been our two best players in camp overall. If we were to go today those two guys would probably start because of how they performed in camp."

When asked about his impressions of the team as they broke training camp, Flip responded by saying, "what I thought we had, we have. What I thought we were, we are." Pressed further he said, "Great energy. Play hard. Very good quickness. Have length. [We] got to continue to work on rebounding, that's going to be a big key for us."

Saunders was asked if a players rebounding ability (or lack thereof) would influence the final roster cuts. He said, "no, because our rebounders are the ones on guaranteed contracts, pretty much.

[Hoopalotta]

Hmmm, so Hinke-Hound and Arm-be-strong nominally ahead of Gil and McGee on the depth chart as of this moment? Maybe these are public statements meant to motivate, but the prospects of that starting lineup sounds outright amazing.....ly bad. I'm guessing that there are peripheral reasons for mentioning this rather than foreshadowing the actual lineup.

Definitely sounding like there's no way in the sassafras patch that Hiney's gonna get hucked for an expiring deal this year. A team captain for two years, methinks, and Nick really scrapping for minutes at the 3 this year too. An element working against Nick is the much celebrated defensive rebounding conundrum with Nick probably lapsing there more than matching up physically with 3-men. But, one way or another, sounds like a bare minimum of 24 minutes for the Hinke-Hound.

[Wizardspride]

Hmmm, so Hinke-Hound and Arm-be-strong nominally ahead of Gil and McGee on the depth chart as of this moment? Maybe these are public statements meant to motivate, but the prospects of that starting lineup sounds outright amazing.....ly bad. I'm guessing that there are peripheral reasons for mentioning this rather than foreshadowing the actual lineup.

Definitely sounding like there's no way in the sassafras patch that Hiney's gonna get hucked for an expiring deal this year. A team captain for two years, methinks, and Nick really scrapping for minutes at the 3 this year too. An element working against Nick is the much celebrated defensive rebounding conundrum with Nick probably lapsing there more than matching up physically with 3-men. But, one way or another, sounds like a bare minimum of 24 minutes for the Hinke-Hound.

I'm not a fan of Flip. At all.......

[closg00]

Hmmm, so Hinke-Hound and Arm-be-strong nominally ahead of Gil and McGee on the depth chart as of this moment? Maybe these are public statements meant to motivate, but the prospects of that starting lineup sounds outright amazing.....ly bad. I'm guessing that there are peripheral reasons for mentioning this rather than foreshadowing the actual lineup.

Definitely sounding like there's no way in the sassafras patch that Hiney's gonna get hucked for an expiring deal this year. A team captain for two years, methinks, and Nick really scrapping for minutes at the 3 this year too. An element working against Nick is the much celebrated defensive rebounding conundrum with Nick probably lapsing there more than matching up physically with 3-men. But, one way or another, sounds like a bare minimum of 24 minutes for the Hinke-Hound.

I'm not a fan of Flip. At all.......

+1 Look for Young to be in FLips dog house and for Ammo to get plenty of run.

[hands11]

When asked to assess his whole team after training camp, Saunders said, "What I thought we had is what we have. So what I learned was, what I thought we were, we are. [We have] great energy, play hard. We have very good quickness, we have length. We've got to continue to work on rebounding. That's going to be a big key for us."

Saunders said that there were few surprises this week other than fifth-year big man Hilton Armstrong, whom he said played better in camp than expected starter JaVale McGee.


So Armstrong was the only one that exceeded Flips expectations of what he thought he has going into camp.

Two questions I had to help evaluate this statement.

What did he think he had in Armstrong and how did he exceed them ?
What did he think he had in these other players ?

At least Armstrong seems to be more valuable then Flip had thought.

[hands11]

Yeah, I like the idea of giving Nick some SF minutes in practice in hopes that Flip would send him out there and tell in he has to rebound the ball or else he isn't getting minutes as a SF.

If Nick could just use some of his natural skills to hawk some rebounds, he would be a much better player.

This is just really hard for me to understand. It just doesn't seem that hard. Your an NBA player. You should know what you need to do. Two, I have to assume people are telling you what to do. You getting paid. So why isn't he doing it. It makes no sense. If Flip tells him to run a drill he does it.

So is Flip not telling him to go out there and rebound ? I find that hard to believe.

[Rafael122]

At the end of the day, he's going to play the best players, and that includes Wall, Arenas, Blatche, Yi, McGee, Hinrich, Booker, Young, Thornton, Howard. I wouldn't read much into what he says during training camp.

[Nivek]

That Flip has been impressed with Armstrong worries me. We've seen Armstrong compete against the rest of the NBA, and it's been ugly. Maybe he's just "getting it" this year. I hope so, because the alternative is that McGee is awful.

[closg00]

At the end of the day, he's going to play the best players, and that includes Wall, Arenas, Blatche, Yi, McGee, Hinrich, Booker, Young, Thornton, Howard. I wouldn't read much into what he says during training camp.

No, Flip will not play the best players and we have plenty of evidence to the contrary:

*DeShawn over Nick, DeShawn was playing so terribly that he took himself out if you believe him.

*Mike Miller, as supposed SG who wouldn't shoot, they kept him in-games when he was suffering from a bruised shoulder and in games where he was just stinking-it-up.

*Orberto over JaVale McGee during a lost season and for long stretches of DNPs.

Did I miss anything?

[nate33]

I'm totally fine with Flip pimping Armstrong. Flip is doing what it takes to make McGee understand that he has to do the grunt work if he wants to be come an effective NBA player. If McGee starts the season as a sub, so be it. I'm not worried about it undermining McGee's confidence. McGee's problem isn't lack of confidence, his problem is overconfidence.

[Shanghai Kid]

I think Flip's description of Mcgee being "style instead of substance" is pretty much spot on.

[Severn Hoos]

That Flip has been impressed with Armstrong worries me. We've seen Armstrong compete against the rest of the NBA, and it's been ugly. Maybe he's just "getting it" this year. I hope so, because the alternative is that McGee is awful.

Dang, I thought Armstrong had a chance to be our Secret Weapon this year....

[JonathanJoseph]

Thankfully there will be real basketball soon and people can stop over reacting to every single sentence uttered in the media.

Flip speaks in coach-speak and very little of it should be translated directly. Most of these concerns are much ado about nothing.

In a training camp, the best players don't necessarily have the best "training camps". So Armstrong, Yi and Hinrich are having good "training camps", i.e., playing the best basketball. So what? That doesn't mean they are the best players or play the best in games or that they aren't simply the healthiest (unlike Arenas, Blatche and Howard, the other three most established NBA players on the squad). If you had asked me before training camp which player I expected to have "the best training camp", I would have bet it would be Kirk Hinrich.

Yi looks like he's a versatile, skilled big man with some real potential.

Seraphin, although clearly raw, has the potential to be a very, very good NBA post man with that kind of size, athleticsm, footwork and patience.

Blatche looks like a "man" for the first time. No more flab or scrawny shoulders. Dude looks like a sleak beast who's gonna still add another 10 lbs of muscle.

Al Thornton looks like he's much more spry than last year.

Is it really so outrageous that Armstrong could be a decent find? He's a 5th year post player. It has taken many, many, many post players 5 years to figure out how to play in the NBA, Brendan Haywood included. Armstrong was a higher draft pick than BTH. Let's give him a few games before we start worrying about what this means.

Wall looks ridiculous.

Until we see some game action and how these players fit together and the chemistry, worrying about coach-speak is a waste.

[queridiculo]

I'm totally fine with Flip pimping Armstrong. Flip is doing what it takes to make McGee understand that he has to do the grunt work if he wants to be come an effective NBA player. If McGee starts the season as a sub, so be it. I'm not worried about it undermining McGee's confidence. McGee's problem isn't lack of confidence, his problem is overconfidence.

Couldn't agree more.

The main issue that I see is that there is a giant disconnect between how McGee perceives himself as a player and the kind of player this team needs him to be.

If it's going to take Armstrong starting for the message to start sinking in I'm all for it.

[Nivek]

Is it really so outrageous that Armstrong could be a decent find? He's a 5th year post player. It has taken many, many, many post players 5 years to figure out how to play in the NBA, Brendan Haywood included. Armstrong was a higher draft pick than BTH. Let's give him a few games before we start worrying about what this means.

I agree with much of what you posted. Except, McGee should be someone having a great camp. He's proven nothing and he's entering his third season. He shouldn't be getting outplayed by Armstrong. He shouldn't even be playing at about the same level as Armstrong. He should be dominating Armstrong.

Re Armstrong: It'd be nice if he's a "decent find." Unfortunately, it's not likely that he will be. Usually (not in every single case, but in general), NBA players don't get a lot better after 4 seasons. Using your comparison, after 4 seasons Haywood had played roughly 3700 more minutes than Armstrong. Haywood's PER through 4 seasons was 15.2 (about average) -- Armstrong's is 9.8.

Brendan rebounded better, blocked more shots, shot a better percentage from the floor, and committed fewer turnovers. So, did Haywood get better after his 4th season? Sorta, but not by much. His career PER is 15.5.

Look at players who started off like Armstrong (6-10 or taller, between 500 and 3000 total minutes through their first 4 seasons) and a rebound rate below 14% and it's a pretty ugly group. Here are the notables from the 47 player list:

- Zarko Cabarkapa
- Patrick O'Bryant (who actually has a higher career PER than Armstrong)
- Marcus Haislip
- Jerrod Mustaf
- Acie Earl
- Jabari Smith
- Pat Burke
- Chris Welp
- Maciej Lampe
- Granville Waiters
- Uwe Blab
- Desagana Diop
- Mike Smerek
- Sean Marks
- Greg Kite
- Nikoloz Tskitishvilli

Diop was useful in a limited role. The rest of these guys are stiffs. Odds are, so is Armstrong. Four years in, draft position means nothing. All that matters is production, and Armstrong has not been productive. The safe bet is that he won't be productive this year either.

[pineappleheadindc]

.

Add Wall to the list of players suffering a little ding during camp. From the Wizards' twitter feed:

@jimmywa11 did sustain a cut to his eye today at practice, however, he returned to practice after they "glued it up"

[TheGreatWall]

.

Add Wall to the list of players suffering a little ding during camp. From the Wizards' twitter feed:

@jimmywa11 did sustain a cut to his eye today at practice, however, he returned to practice after they "glued it up"

Knowing our medical staff, those quotations aren't even necessary.

[Dat2U]

At the end of the day, he's going to play the best players, and that includes Wall, Arenas, Blatche, Yi, McGee, Hinrich, Booker, Young, Thornton, Howard. I wouldn't read much into what he says during training camp.

No, Flip will not play the best players and we have plenty of evidence to the contrary:

*DeShawn over Nick, DeShawn was playing so terribly that he took himself out if you believe him.

*Mike Miller, as supposed SG who wouldn't shoot, they kept him in-games when he was suffering from a bruised shoulder and in games where he was just stinking-it-up.

*Orberto over JaVale McGee during a lost season and for long stretches of DNPs.

Did I miss anything?

Flip won't get away with that crap for long. Ernie & his soldiers (cough) Tapscott (cough) might be fine with playing the vets over the kids but my guess is Leonsis won't be too happy about it.

I'll take everything with a grain of salt right now. I'll assume the Flip is simply trying to motivate McGee by saying the starting job isn't automatically his.

[hands11]

At the end of the day, he's going to play the best players, and that includes Wall, Arenas, Blatche, Yi, McGee, Hinrich, Booker, Young, Thornton, Howard. I wouldn't read much into what he says during training camp.

No, Flip will not play the best players and we have plenty of evidence to the contrary:

*DeShawn over Nick, DeShawn was playing so terribly that he took himself out if you believe him.

*Mike Miller, as supposed SG who wouldn't shoot, they kept him in-games when he was suffering from a bruised shoulder and in games where he was just stinking-it-up.

*Orberto over JaVale McGee during a lost season and for long stretches of DNPs.

Did I miss anything?

Yeah, I think you did. I think your missing the context of those moves.

Partly, Flip played vets when he was new as the HC. I get that. You come in as a new coach and your most likely to trust the vets vs players those who have been erratic. Nick was surely that. McGee was also and couldn't play D. MM was an all around solid player. He played hard even if he didn't shoot as much as we wanted. Miller was good enough that Miami picked him up.

In context, I get why Flip played all of those players over the other ones.

But eventually, he moved DS out. I doubt DS decided that. That sounds like a good cover story. Miller eventually started to shoot more and McGee saw more opportunities eventually also.

By the same logic, I expect Kirk gets him minutes until Nick proves that needs to change. That's on Nick.

Wall even as a rookie obviously gets his and not just because he was #1. Wall has already proven himself. Wall is smart and has tones of maturity and heart. You can't say that of Nick.

SF is more open. Not sure who starts there. You have to think AT is in the lead till someone proves they are better. Well, except for small ball with Kirk.

PF is all Dray.

C ? McGee has a soft lead but it is a lead. I think it mostly based on his put back, dunks, solid summer and potential. As for D, he could easily not become their first option there. Armstrong and Seraphin will give him a run in that category. Even Y could end up being better at D. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this year McGee loses the starting job at center for some period of time.