1PM, Rubio VS Wall (Wolves - Wiz Game Thread)

[sashae]

Ken Berger's post-game Wizards wrap-up is pretty damning.

This is the most painful it's been to be a fan of this squad in my memory. I even expected that we'd be the worst team in the league this season, but man... you want to at least see /glimpses/ of capability.

[The Consiglieri]

Who should we ship out? Who are the pieces to keep with Wall: Singleton (great potential), Vesely (great potential), Booker (worth more to us than we'd ever get back in a trade), McGee (potential is sky high, though he'd yield a ton in a trade and would increase our BBIQ just unloading him), NY (one of the few guys that can actually hit a shot, but I'd probably still consider trading him away to a team needing some offense), Mack (wouldnt get anything back, and he has some value).

I would consider dealing, in the end, anything on the roster not named Wall though, everything would be for sale.

Realistically who can we ship out? Beyond Wall and McGee I don't see any players on this roster that will return value, or much of anything at all.

Wall, McGee, Singleton and Booker to me are keepers, everybody else is fair game.

Players I want gone immediately are Young, Crawford and Blatche, and in return I'd take NBA vets that match their positions on modest contracts.

Give me some guys that take pride in competing, and can knock down a jumper with consistency.

I'm with you, i thought it was insane to see the unnuanced takes on "get blatche the hell out of here" in posts two weeks ago, as if we'd get anything back. I still feel that way but i also agree that it's imperative to move him for hell, a protected 2nd rounder if need be just to remove him from the room. It's sometimes important to simply get rid of a cancer for pennies on the dollar, just to get rid of the cancer. Blatche is a guy I'd move for that purpose, and while NY is the only guy around here that can shoot, I'd still move him because he isn't remotely worth resigning at what he wants, for what he gives, and for chemistry reasons.

I also wouldn't deal McGee because the negatives do not outweigh the positives of having him on the roster, sky high potential, yeah he's a knucklehead, but he's continually improving, and if you remove the rest of the knucklehead base (NY and Blatche), he has nobody to knucklehead with, and would instead be forced to either follow the hard working crew or be left behind. Blatche will never get with the program, and NY will be chasing money, not the idea of modeling quality behavior and becoming a special and complete player.

I also would not deal crawford because his value could never be lower, and much like with Booker, we'd never get back anything remotely like what he could be worth to us, in time, in Bookers case, the kind of personality and dirty work that could eventually prove to be a great example to the franchise, and its personality, and a glue guy for a new chemistry whereas with Crawford, I want to see him play for more than basically a quarter season of starts before I give up on him. He may just be a Costanza like chucker, and that's it, but I'd at least like to see what he can do for us across multiple seasons before I give up on a guy who'd get us nothing back anyway. Might as well keep him around unless he's awful in the locker room.

[miller31time]

Ken Berger's post-game Wizards wrap-up is pretty damning.

This is the most painful it's been to be a fan of this squad in my memory. I even expected that we'd be the worst team in the league this season, but man... you want to at least see /glimpses/ of capability.

As sad as it is, negative pub is the only way things are going to change. When the Wizards are by far the biggest laughing-stock in the NBA (and we're damn close to that), the status quo is unacceptable and changes will be made.

[dangermouse]

Watching now...

Boy, I wish we managed to pick higher and get Williams... He hits threes, is athletic...

I still see him as a PF/SF more than the other way around.

Wall & Williams would have been a great core. And if we still traded for the 18 it would have been McGee/Williams/Singleton/NY/Wall.

We probably would have a win or two with that squad...

[FAH1223]

Just want to show people that there is hope. This was year 2 of the Thunder's rebuild.

wow i forgot about that

[pancakes3]

Ken Berger's post-game Wizards wrap-up is pretty damning.

This is the most painful it's been to be a fan of this squad in my memory. I even expected that we'd be the worst team in the league this season, but man... you want to at least see /glimpses/ of capability.

who exactly do you think blatche had in mind when he says that guys aren't listening to flip?

[montestewart]

Ken Berger's post-game Wizards wrap-up is pretty damning.

This is the most painful it's been to be a fan of this squad in my memory. I even expected that we'd be the worst team in the league this season, but man... you want to at least see /glimpses/ of capability.

who exactly do you think blatche had in mind when he says that guys aren't listening to flip?

He had me in mind. I tuned Flip out weeks ago.

[Error Afflalo]

Just want to show people that there is hope. This was year 2 of the Thunder's rebuild.

On a serious note though, at least OKC competed. Utah, Phoenix, and Detroit were all good teams. We just suck

[montestewart]

New York's poorly constructed, and Boston's on the decline, but they're playoffs teams w/ some serious players, and the Wizards played close in three games against them. Wall (with a little psychotherapy and proper implementation under another coaching system), McGee (see Wall), Booker, Singleton, maybe Vesely (need to see more), maybe even Seraphin (see Vesely), all might be a solid basis for the future. There's talent here, but this "suck until we're ready to strike" strategy may leave talented players poorly trained and broken by the time they're needed by a better Wizards.

[WizarDynasty]

In summary,

Wall--horrible half court player. Has really poor control handle in the half court is often out of control that he can;t move laterally when driving and is very easy to anticipate. He doesn't see plays 4 seconds in advance, he is often looking for his shot first and then looking to dish it out when the defense has killed all of his shot opportunities. Wall is not a pass first point guard. Defensively, wall is very soft, he can't post up other point guards. He doesn't box out well, he isn't very physical with screen and times never attempting to old up a bigman to help his bigman recover. You would think that coaches wouldn't bench wall until he showed the ability to slow down after he sprinted and attempted throw his man off balance. Maybe he take a step back jumper once he gets into the lane. Again, wall can't go into reverse once he is full sprint mode and he lacks the ability to stay low and maintain his dribble once he is in the paint. I think Wall is really over rated. He is a fast break point guard but outside of a fast break....he is pretty below average point guard that doesn't draw up plays with mcgee, blatche, young, and singleton when the game is over based on film of his opponents.... Just not a high level of involvement. this is what Ted Leonsis has to create if he wants his team to move upwards. Force these fives starters into a room and teach them how to dissect the next team at a high level based on defense and what should work to exploit that type of defense.

Young...very slow while his dribbling. He always slows up and passes it. I have never seen Young actually lead a fast break and sprint full speed. Can't beat anyone to a spot when driving and is often times cut off. When the shot clock is winding down, he will pass the ball to a powerforward out on the perimeter yet he is the shooting guard. He relies on circus shots instead of the ability to get into the lane at will. Young is always jogging on plays, you never seen him sprint to an open spot and get his feet set ready for a pass, he is often jogging to his spot while the action is going on. His shot are never timed with his bigman to get a rebound if he misses. when Young does get to the rim he lacks body strength to get his shot when he gets contact and its often a horrible low percentage shot.
A shooting guard jobs is to get off a good shot when the shot clock goes down, not kick it out the blatche at the three point line. He is also a very inconsistent shooter. he is extrem At this point his only kill is opting for the pull up jump shot after his driving lane is cut off. This shot is usually missed because Young gets no elevation on his jumpshot and he never rebounds any of his misses. Also young is one of the worst players at reacting to a pass leaving out of players hand. He often stares at the ball as it leaves the hand of an offensive player rather than bolting toward the direction of the ball..and then makes a half hearted effort to challenge the shot after it is clearly to late to close out. Blatche, Seraphin and McGee also display this lack of defensive awareness andreaction speet it surely is not a trait drilled by Coaches Saunders in practice.

Singleton--is an effort player, a role player that hustles on defense and gives it his all. He shows the best defensive awareness on the team although he still at times looses track of passes. Singleton is a 6th man player though that comes in to provides defense. His poor ball handling skills when driving the lane and his lack of flexibility and hand arm coordination makes him a poor option attacking the rim. I see singleton as smarter version of Al Thornton. if Singleton can hit his three's at a high rate, he won't need much offensive ability with wall kicking out and the passes being swung to him in corner.

Blatche is extremely slow footed. He used to be alot quicker. He was never a jumper but he made up for not being able to jump by having an explosive first step. That explosiveness is gone. Blatche use to actually accelerate when he started to drive to lane and his problem was that he could really jump but would often get to offensively advantage spot in the lane before his defender or help defense. WE thought that he was learning to get unorthodox releases from his years of playing under Jamison but apparently blatche never made any of Jamison's crafty moves his own. I also think that Blatche has become alot more stiff and not nearly fluid as he was a few season's ago.
All in all Blatche developed a finesse game but he doesn't have the athleticism to be a finesse player. He also doesn't have the body strength to moves players around on the block to create space for himself and when he does get a little bit of space, he has very inconsistent shot with no lift in his jumpshot. Defensively, Blatche is much slower than he use to be. He use to be able to offensive players to the spot and was often able to get off the floor much quicker to block shots. Not anymore. He also has very bad hands and often times bobbles rebounds and they are often stolen by a bigger hand stronger hand player. I think Blatche is definitely a bench player right now and getting 6'11 athletic powerforward with strong hands, lift when he jumps, and high energy would be optimal. Booker works ok off the bench but only standing 6'6 and not being able to hit a wide open jump shot limits his ability.
McGee---Offensively McGee can't open up the lane for wall because he doesn't seem to have the foot coordination to sprint to an open spot and get his feet set to receive a pass out on the flank. he also doesn't seem to have fluid enough coordination to catch and shoot. I think McGee is looking pretty good with his post moves and is starting to see double teams and now he is being forced to evolve. A big problem with mcgee is that he can't stutter step and pull up for a high release jumper ala chris bosh. He is alot more athletic than Blatche and can get higher in the sky and thus avoid having his shot blocked if he had smooth quick mechanics. None of this is the case. Defensively, McGee has been covering up alot of holes for this defense and his team mates don't seem to recognize how to plug up holes that mcgee creates when he helps out. Often times mcgee is helping on a guard and rather than putting a body on mcgee's man they will just stand and watch as mcgee man's takes an offensively advantageous space with no resistance from guards. again, Saunders allows this to continue.

Seraphin---no dribbbling skills--no faceup ability out on the perimeter and can't catch and shoot out on the perimeter when wall drives. closes up lane.
Crawford--horrible slow feet--offensively and defensively-- can't break down a defense, can't put pressure on a point guard and stall an offense.

Defensively our players are extremely passive at allowing bigs to get away with moving picks. Some type of theatrics needs to go on each game in the first quarter to force refs to call moving screens...either it be a flop by a guard...something but Saunders continously allows another team big to run into the guard on moving screen. If the big is running into a guard...instruct the guard to flop..until the refs call a foul or flopping foul but do something.
Point guards really shouldn't be looking for their shot, but Saunders offense is not designed for players to receive passes wit their feet set.

[pancakes3]

it's hard to gauge what kind of motivation these guys would respond to. it's like trying to parent teenagers. you set strict larry brown rules on them and they'll just rebel and burn your house down. you try to buddy up to them and they won't respect you and openly steal your beer and cigarettes. it makes sense because most of our talent are effectively children. i wonder if supernanny is available for a reasonable contract?

[montestewart]

it's hard to gauge what kind of motivation these guys would respond to. it's like trying to parent teenagers. you set strict larry brown rules on them and they'll just rebel and burn your house down. you try to buddy up to them and they won't respect you and openly steal your beer and cigarettes. it makes sense because most of our talent are effectively children. i wonder if supernanny is available for a reasonable contract?

They steal my beer and cigarettes and I'll go Bobby Knight on their a$$es

PS: They might go all Sprewell on mine

[Foye]

Keep your heads up guys. Us Timberwolves fans have been through this for years and we still aren't completely over the hump like that last game vs. Cavs showed.

I advise you to get rid of Crawford, Young and Blatche, though (or at least minimalize their roles).

Singleton didn't shoot very well but at least he was very active on D. He'll be a nice rotation player.
Booker seems like a solid player as well. He stepped up when everyone elses head was down. How does this guy average only 14 mpg?

Wall was terrible but I think right now it's more of a mental issue with him. He's not used to being a losing teams and your 0-8 start must've really gotten in his head. He'll be a very good player down the road.

You need to get rid of Crawford, Young and Blatche, though.
Especially, Crawford and Young. Terrible on D and their offense consists of chucking contested, low percentage long 2 pointers while fading away.
Your offense might be worse temporarily once you got rid of them but you'll be able to add a scoring option in the draft this year and other young talented players with more BB IQ get minutes to develop.

And make sure to burn out that Ryan Hollins mentality that McGee has. His BB IQ seems low but at least you've gotta be able to teach him that you don't block shots in the front row that you can simply grab out of the air and run a fast break with. I don't think he realizes how good he could be if he understood the game of basketball just a little bit better and would work on a post game for once.

[montestewart]

^
Young frequently looks better on both ends. Crawford and Blatche not so much. Besides, lose Crawford and Young, only Mason left at SG, but Young may well be gone by next year anyway, as he's on a 1 year QO.

PS: Hate losing (again) but Wolves look pretty good.

[WallToWall]

As this team is currently comprised, it lacks players with professionalism, and high bball IQ. I look to the Spurs as I make this comparison. We need to pick players that show this sort of commitment. We need to pick players that show professionalism and IQ. We need a coach and GM that show the organization the way forward. At this moment, I dont believe our GM and coach are the right choice. Saying this pains me, because I am an EG fanboy. I like the things he has done for the team. I wish he would show more leadership in this regard. Likewise with our coach. We need a coach who can effectively reach his players. We need players to positively respond and act as a team.
What we have now are a bunch of talented players with low bball IQ and no idea of how to act professionally - it looks like they dont even do their homework to prepare for a game.
This team is in need of lots of help. They need teacher and scouts to not only provide the scouting report for the next game, but teach the player how to use the information. One would hope that the veteran players would help to provide this direction, but obviously this is not effectively happening.
As this team is currently comprised, it is not going anywhere. There is no problem in my mind to trade as many of them as possible for draft picks, and build for the future. Whats the worst that will happen?? We loose games? Hey, thats already happening.

[7-Day Dray]

More controversy:

Frank Hanrahan @JFrankHanrahan 4m
Source: Wizards’ Rashard Lewis was late scratch versus Minnesota because he got into an argument before game with an asst coach. #Wizards

[sfam]

More controversy:

Frank Hanrahan @JFrankHanrahan 4m
Source: Wizards’ Rashard Lewis was late scratch versus Minnesota because he got into an argument before game with an asst coach. #Wizards

perhaps Rashard will do something useful for us - any hope of him being a coach killer???

[dandridge 10]

More controversy:

Frank Hanrahan @JFrankHanrahan 4m
Source: Wizards’ Rashard Lewis was late scratch versus Minnesota because he got into an argument before game with an asst coach. #Wizards

I knew something was up. I wish the Wizards would just say he didn't play because of "conduct detrimental to the team" instead of lying to the fans. Don't they know stuff like that will get out. It just makes this organization look more like a joke than it already is.

[adarsh1]

Apparently it was Cassell

[Black Eyed Sooz]

Apparently rashard got in an argument with cassell and refused to play.

Now if only he could talk Blatche into joining the mutiny we'd be getting somewhere