Celtics @ Wizards - 11/3/12

[truwizfan4evr]

I think Beal is just scared of failing and thinking to much. Plus he playing against guys way older then him it has to be scary for a kid that's 19 years old. Beal is a very nice kid he got to dig deep and find that mean side on the court. He's got to get aggressive he needs Jordan Crawford as his mentor and develop Jordan swagger.

[hands11]

I wonder if we could buy Ariza out for say $4 M in the offseason. We save $3 M and he avoids further humiliation. He obviously sucks.

Beal may need some D league time to further hone his skills.

I was thinking the same thing for Ariza.

7M next year. They might be able to get a small discount on that. But if may take paying the entire thing if they can't find a way to bundle him in a trade. One way of another, I doubt he is here next year.

For now, he is supposed to be a defensive specialist. Treat him like one. Bring him off the bench when needed.

Randy just needs to forget who makes what and play the best players that compliment each other.

[blazinskillz]

I think he'll be fine, but my fears of him have played out. He's athletic, but doesn't play to his athleticism. Maybe getting his shots blocked frequently in preseason has gotten to him? All I can tell is he's not a strong finisher given his measurable, he's tentative to attack off the dribble, and has shown no fierceness to his game....that's the problem when you draft for need over BPA....

I don't agree with moving him to the bench though. I like how Crawford is playing in a Sixth man role. I don't want to ruin that unless Walls return date gets pushed back....

He sure did get 3 {or more) shots blocked one game.

I think Beal is just 19. He looks strong but at 19 he's not fully grown-man strong yet. I will have to watch League Pass to see how he's elevating on open looks and if Bradley Beal makes good cuts on defense, and how he gets back defensively. Could be that his body is fine but his head is messed up on offense from fear of rejection (pun intended). I really wish Wall was healthy because John's speed would create a lane for Beal to trail and finish, or Wall would create spacing with his penetration and Beal would get a lot more clean looks. He wouldn't have as many shots blocked. A. J. Price is not a facilitator. Beal isn't getting fed as he will with Wall.

I'm shocked

[Mr. Grundle]

Just watched the game. Only thought is...Ernie Grunfeld must feel like a complete idiot. Nobody figured he could do worse than the Miller / Foye trade, but we underestimated him yet again. This Ariza / Okafor trade, for 2 players we didn't need, have bad contracts, and are just plain bad basketball players, is his worst move yet, BY FAR. My god words cannot describe the magnitude of this abomination. How long are stuck with these guys for? I can't imagine any other GM being dumb enough to trade for either of these guys again.

There is no curse of Les Boulez. It's the curse of Grunseldan (Grunfeld / Unseld / Jordan).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Of a couple teams I follow, Grunfeld and the football coach of the University of Hawaii, Norm Chow, both seem to be most inflexible, most conservative, most predictable, least creative, and least proficient at what they do.

You said he must feel like a complete idiot, Mr. Grundle, but I don't get that from EG or Coach Chow (Hawaii football has been torpedoed by this coach, absolutely). I think EG and Chow are alike, bull headed, set in their ways, above it all and very smug. They can lose, lose, lose, but will stay the course doing the same thing.

The reason I doubt Grunfeld feels like an idiot is historically he shifts blame on young players and fires coaches but no blame sticks to Ernie.

Ernie did the same damn thing with Okafor and Ariza that he did with Foye and Miller. You cannot tell the guy a thing and Ted the Enabler bought into the idiocy. Calling the move to swap their deals for Lewis cap neutral was pure lunacy. Not even trying to pursue FAs and saying no FA would want to play in DC was a losing, defeatist mentality. Grunfeld doesn't even have any idea how much better off he would be with a Ryan Anderson on this team. He can't feel like an idiot because I doubt he has those critical thinking skills. He and Ted are running it like a business, banking on the ignorance of the average fan.

[Earth2Ted]

Can we please get Shaun Livingston in here already? The team clearly has a problem running their offense with the point guards they have now, and Livingston already knows how to run it- he was one of the very few guys that had a clue when Flip was here.

I agree with CCJ about Beal maybe not being 100% from that ankle sprain. I think it would also help him to have an NBA caliber point guard with him... but he also has to look in the mirror and step up. I mentioned earlier in this thread that Jarvis Hayes (one of our many draft busts that we were hoping that Beal would make us forget about) actually started out much better than Bradley his rookie year, with double figures in his first 8 games, including 22, 20, and 17 in the last 3 of those. 2 games is very early, but it's been 2 very ugly games.

Other thoughts...

What a game for Seraphin- gotta give Grunfeld a little credit for him... He did a fair amount of his damage against a pretty good defender in Kevin Garnett. Hopefully we will see him sooner rather than later with Nene and Wall. He and Crawford really kept us in the game- as much as I hated Crawford's shot jacking last year and wanted him gone, we need him right now, and it's good to see the confidence in his eyes.

Ariza and Okafor- I thought the trade was going to be good for us, but those guys have been awful. Okafor at least looks like he's sort of trying, but he needs to not shoot anything he can't dunk. Ariza just looks like he doesn't want to be here at all.

Vesely - looks like a bust. The guy is a lottery pick with a couple of years of pro ball in Europe, and a year at the NBA level, and it still feels like a minor miracle if he sinks a free throw or a mid range jumper. Why is he still so unskilled? If he were wearing boxing gloves out there, he wouldn't look any better or worse. At this point, I would be surprised if he has a better career than Satoransky who's not even in the league yet.

James Singleton and Roger Mason- every time we let those guys go, we pay the price, and we're doing it again.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Can we please get Shaun Livingston in here already? The team clearly has a problem running their offense with the point guards they have now, and Livingston already knows how to run it- he was one of the very few guys that had a clue when Flip was here.

+1

Vesely - looks like a bust. The guy is a lottery pick with a couple of years of pro ball in Europe, and a year at the NBA level, and it still feels like a minor miracle if he sinks a free throw or a mid range jumper. Why is he still so unskilled? If he were wearing boxing gloves out there, he wouldn't look any better or worse. At this point, I would be surprised if he has a better career than Satoransky who's not even in the league yet.

Vesely would look just fine if Nene were healthy, Seraphin were healthy, and there was no Okafor or Ariza on the team. He has to play a lot of C now. Too light in the cakes for that. Jan cannot start with Kevin like he should because the Wizards are idiots IMO. Booker and Okafor are the main thing clouding his future. The Wizards were STUPID to move Chris Singleton ahead of Vesely in the PF rotation. Both those guys IMO should be SFs. Vesely just for matchup problems can pass and rebound well at SF even if he cannot score or defend--but he should be a long, tall, SF like Garnett was early in his career. That Vesely has no playing spot any more is the Wizards stupidity for muddling the roster with mediocre veterans.

I think Vesely should have gone around 16-25 in the draft and that he is a heady, useful player who will be run back to Europe by the dummies who drafted him. Earth2Ted, by that I agree with you. Vesely is headed for being a bust. I don't think that would be the case if he had players around him who would let him be a roving garbage player. I have seen Ves have double figures. He's rebounded well at times and blocked shots, too. He is best paired with Seraphin or Nene. Chris Singleton is better at PF than SF, and making Vesely seem worse at PF because Chris is more effective than Jan, currently. I think the Wizards are mindless fools for killing off their own young players. Both guys should be playing through mistakes rather than watching Okafor and Ariza make mistakes and get paid.

James Singleton and Roger Mason- every time we let those guys go, we pay the price, and we're doing it again.

+1000

Washington doesn't treat players right at all. Don't bring back James Singleton. Cut Mack for Pargo and Price. This team sucks forever for a reason.

[closg00]

Of a couple teams I follow, Grunfeld and the football coach of the University of Hawaii, Norm Chow, both seem to be most inflexible, most conservative, most predictable, least creative, and least proficient at what they do.

You said he must feel like a complete idiot, Mr. Grundle, but I don't get that from EG or Coach Chow (Hawaii football has been torpedoed by this coach, absolutely). I think they are so bull headed and set in their ways that they are so much alike and both very smug. They can lose, lose, lose, but will stay the course doing the same thing. The reason I doubt Grunfeld feels like an idiot is he will shift blame on young players and fire coaches but like Flip Saunders, nothing sticks to him.

Ernie did the same damn thing with Okafor and Ariza. You cannot tell the guy a thing and Ted the Enabler bought into the idiocy.

Now Ted is this organizations biggest problem, bigger because he is Ernie Grunfeld's Stockholm prisoner.

Has anyone been following Ted's embarrassing interviews, his most recent comparing the Nats and Wizards?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... -the-nats/

Poster SamT1 summed it up best:

I don’t know if there’s another team in the league that’s had the kind of roster turnover that we have. Basically, when I bought the team, there’s not a single player who’s on the team now that was there when I bought the team."

The team was so awful that we had to replace everyone. So I hired the guy who brought all those lousy players here to get us some new ones.

“But I saw no choice. I didn’t like the team environment, I didn’t like the coachability of the team."

So I hired the guy responsible for creating a terrible work environment and uncoachable players to bring in some new ones.

"Every other owner I meet, everyone in the league, I talk to, because I haven’t broken the code yet. None of my teams have won a championship."

Hmmm... why do you think that is?

[Mr. Grundle]

Not worried about Beal. He did the same thing when he got Florida, playing passively and seeming to not want to come in and take over. Once he realizes he's the most skilled guy out there he will start getting more assertive. I think it just takes a while for him to get acclimated.

I'm still encouraged about Jan. He does so many little things good if he could just develop a somewhat dependable mid-range jumper he will be good. Thought his jumper looked good tonight and the few shots he took looked confident to me.

CCJ anyone who watched that game after trading for Ariza / Okafor would have to feel like an idiot. The only reason they are starters are because of their contracts and that starting lineup may be the worst in Bullets history.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What kind of an idiot trades for those two when their performance curves indicated "the only reason they are starters is because of their contracts?"

Ernie in effect shopped online from the New Orlean's Hornets used car lot and paid top dollar for two cars. Ernie didn't care about the Carfax report. He didn't care about one being well over 100k miles. No test drive, even though one car takes an eternity to go from 0 to 60, and the other has a disturbing rattling noise, and a lot of smoke coming from the engine. Ernie just bought on the premise that others have paid good money on these high maintenance vehicles and so will he.

Those two players have been (edited) complacent and underperforming relative to their salary for years. Denny Green would say they are who we thought they were.

[llcc25]

It's more apparent now that we got fleeced in the okafor/ariza trade. I atleast held out hope that one of the two could stick as a viable starter but forget it. Can't believe I'm sayin this but I'd rather have Lewis and boat he instead. Lol. New Orleans without their 2 best players, Davis and Gordon, go into CHI and win convincingly. He night before my boy Vasquez hits runner to beat Jazz. New Orleans has hope. Same cant be said go our team. I'm beyond frustrated. The day Ernie goes, will be the day I finally see the light at end of tunnel for his team.

[llcc25]

I meant Lewis and blatche

[willbcocks]

I thought Vesely played well last night. There are obviously things he needs to do better, but he's 22 and in his second season. Look at Seraphin and the difference a second year can make.

But Ves does a lot of good things on the court. On the defensive end, he makes good rotations, knows how to play within a team concept, has a way of disrupting plays, and he seems to be the most vocal guy out there. In those ways, he reminds me of Noah. Obviously he has two big things he needs to improve, which are getting posted up and, most importantly, getting pushed around on the defensive glass.

On the offensive end, he is passing the ball extremely well and seems to be cutting down on the turnovers. He moves without the ball well on the pick and roll, cutting from the weak side, and on fast breaks. He finishes well enough near the basket. His shooting still needs a lot of work and I'm not sure it's worth the effort, but he's not hurting us on offense when he's in the game.

I really wish we hadn't traded for Okafor/Ariza, but I'll try not to become a broken record on this point. It just has so many negative implications for the team, including the playing time of Ves/Booker/Seraphin, who are a solid and very intriguing young group.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Okafor/Ariza trade and cutting Shelvin Mack are the ONLY things I am mad about. Nene trade was IMO a mistake (too injured), but had they stopped at that, the Wizards had just acquired a guy the young dudes respected and a guy who CAN play.

If not for the dumb trade and the acquisition of one veteran PG too many, a lot of positives would be apparent.
--Chris Singleton got better and more confident. (OkAriza is keeping him on the bench)
--Vesely also improved.
--Crawford has played much more under control and taken relatively fewer bad shots. He can pass well, too.
--Seraphin is the low post scoring beast who can defend well that he started to show last season.
--Nice, cheap, veteran pickup at SF Martell Webster can help.
--Who needs Okafor when Earl MF'n Barron can give us almost as much.

There are good things going on, but the Wizards IMO have a bit of an unbalanced roster due to those two things I'm mad about.

I EVEN THINK RANDY CAN COACH! Wittman is a whole lot better winner of a coach with less than Saunders was. Unfortunately, Randy creates whipping boys. I don't know if he's just trying to motivate the guy or if he's just HAM on certain players. I don't like that part of his coaching because this team is not good enough to deride any player.

[hands11]

I'm beginning to think that Ted may have gone the vet route one year too soon. I agree with Dray, McGee, and Young being out of the equation and I still like the Nene trade assuming he gives us 60-65 games, but I think that could have been enough if we coupled it with a few lesser FA moves. Nenes impact was so positive that Ted and Ernie seemed to go overboard. The '10 draft picks may be ready. Seraphin is legit, Crawford may actually work as a 6th man if he continues to attack the basket, and Booker isn't a star but i think what we saw today is more indicative of his norm. If Wall has improved at all, then you have the makings of a good foundation. Vesely has been a solid reserve , not worthy of the 6th pick, but a decent reserve nonetheless. But now we've tied two yrs of cap space into these clowns. I admit, I thought they could add something, but I was wrong. My argument was who would come here, but if we agressively pursued moderately priced FAs it could have been enough. Who here wouldn't take a Gerald Green over Ariza?

I can see keeping Okafor around as a backup, but Ariza won't last here with his body language and attitude. He seems like the anti-Nene. What could we realistically get for either? It would have to be a bad contract for a bad contract....but I'd do it. Ariza is just that bad...

I agree with most of your take on things only I would give Ves a little more props. When he is out there, I see things running better. I see the team more aggressive. Ves is an active long mobile player. He sets picks and plays great position D and rotates well. He tips balls back into play and he passes really well. And now we see that he is starting to shoot. He even took that mid range that would have tied the game. That shows some shooting confidence we hadn't seen from Ves.

With his height and length, if he releases the ball high like he should ( McGee didn't) he should get open mid range shots. His form looks pretty good. I expect to see Ves making progress on his offensive game this year. But he needs to continue to work on his positioning for defensive rebounds.

As for Okafor and Trevor A, I think we have beaten that dead horse. I get why Ted took the approach he did. After 3 year of spending 20M a year in mostly dead money (Gil/Lewis), he wanted to at least get some warm bodied vets on the court for that price tag. Lewis bought out at 12-14 something mill plus 7M for Dray plus the cost replacing those slots was more then he wanted to spend. Add that the Nene addition worked so well and that is why he wanted to trade the Lewis contract instead of doing a buyout. People can agree or disagree if this was the right move but I except thats how he viewed things and why he decided what he did with his money.

To me, the only real debate is.. who better could they have gotten for the Lewis contract at the time ? Thats where you can judge EG. As for approach. That was on Ted. Its his money.

So how do they turn lemons into Lemonaide? You don't start Trevor A. Use Chris Singleton and Webster primarily at SF. They need to get evaluated for the future because we still don't have a long term SF figured out. Use Trevor A for what he is, I defensive specialist. Maybe when Wall returns he will fit a little better. If he doesn't work well even when Wall returns, then buy him out. Even if it is for full price. That's less in dead money then you would have paid Lewis. So this year you have 7M of Dray dead money and next year you would have 15M of Dray and Ariza in dead money. Net difference would be you added Okafor for one extra year at 14M. Then you go bid on the open market for FAs and or draft a SF.

Or maybe they luck into a quality RFA SF becoming available in which case they use these expiring contracts to land someone that can extend longer term.

Orlando is paying 21M and 22M next year in dead money for Gil. This is still about minimizing the disastrous contract Gil got. The final chapter of how well they did that will only get written once this contract expires and we see what Washington got in total for it.

They aren't done rebuilding this thing. This was just an interim step to mitigate the Gil contract while they develop Wall, Beal, Kevin, Ves, Booker and Singleton. So far, Wall and Kevin seem to be legit keeper pieces. Ves seems to be a useful piece who shows upside and who is clearly still developing in only his second year. A lot of his story will get reveal this year by seeing how far he can develop his game. We all have high hopes for Beal, though he has had a really rough start ( only 2 games). They have to keep Booker and Singleton out there so we can see what we have in them. And we have to keep Webster out there so we can see if we stumbled into something. Lastly, Crawford. How can we best turn his talent into efficiency. A 25 PER after two games is a good start. That is the story of this year along with Wall.

Trevor A, Okafor, Price, and Pargo, they are just side notes. None have a long term future here.

Basically we are looking at the trim on the car when the engine hasn't been put in it. Part of the drive train has just been installed via Kevin S. Now we need Nene and Wall. The car will look and run a lot better then.

The move on the table as of today as I see it revolves around PG. How much longer do they give Price and Pargo before they go get a Livingston. I see Price and Pargo as to similar as players. One is just a younger version of the other. If it was me, I would go sign Livingston and choose between the two. Or you move Crawford to PG and go find another SG who has some handles. Or you move Webster up to SG.

Something has to change. They can't line them up to start the game the way they did the last two. Randy even said as much.

[hands11]

At least Crawford gives a crap. Booker and Crawford always play hard. They might not play smart all the time, but you can always count on those two giving 100%. I can't say the same for Ariza (for sure) and Emeka (looks like it).

Crawford does deserve some props. He may be a chucker but the kid is tough. Got injured and returned to shoot the free throws. Then went to the locker and returned to play on a strained ankle. He even played through a sprain late last year. Crawford is a warrior. He isn't perfect, but this team needs him because of his handles, passing, ability to create off the dribble ( no on else has that but Wall ) and his warrior attitude.

Maybe eventually you move on from having him on the roster, but that time is not now. He has talent. They just have to figure out the most efficient way to use it.

[hands11]

Oh and I didnt even notice Okafor? Just checked the box score and he only played 16 minutes. Injury?

Not injured. It's just what he provides is not a good compliment in a line up of...

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker and Okafor. Then when Kevin came in, Ves complimented him well.

Not a ball handler in that starting line up so no spacing for Beal. That makes it 4 on 5 right there. Then Trevor A is a defensive specialist with bad handles. No offense there. Booker is forced to force his game because he is the best talent on the floor. Okafor is just a defensive/rebounding center/pf. He doesn't have the offense to help that line up and he isn't long enough to be out there with Booker. So with nothing working, Price tries to be a ball handler which he isn't so he chucks up bad shots trying to be more then he is. Just a terrible line up. And the results prove it.

I like Randy a lot but I am very disappointed he actually tried that line up to start the game for two games in a row. But now he has Kevin S back so he has no excuses. Kevin has to start. Work it out based around what would compliment him being in there and balance the line ups. With Kevin starting, you might be able to still start Okafor but I would play no favorites. You could start Ves or even Barron with him. Any of those combination will work better then what we have seen. Kevin is the key. He actually has a post game and can hit the mid range.

Objectively, Crawford is the best ball handler, passer, driver on the team so play him at PG already. Stop being so stubborn. So there are 2 of 5 starters. Crawford and Kevin. Fill in the rest.

Crawford, Beal, Singleton, Kevin, Okafor works for me. That leaves back up of
Price, Martin, Webster, Booker, Ves or Price, Webster, Trevor A, Booker, Ves if you need more D ( and this line up allow the front office to save some face.)

But you have to keep Crawford out there for 42 minutes a game because he is the only true ball handler. And since Crawford is the one sending Beal the right message, I can see Crawford feeding the kid to get his confidence going. They may well be the some situation developing that Nene and Kevin have. I think that is what Beal needs. Crawford would be in his ear tell telling him to take the shot or take it to the hoop.

I didn't see that dynamic developing but I can see how that is what would be best for the team and best for Beal right now. I had been saying he needs to be out there with Crawford for handles and driving ability for spacing. Now I see he also needs to be out there with Crawford so Crawford can instill some toughness into Beal. Its actually a good pairing given what Beal needs to learn.

[payitforward]

This team is fine finding some offense when they're trailing...it's when the game tightens up and on the line when the boneheaded decisions come

This is going to look pretty good once Wall and Nene are back.

It's certainly going to look better! But I think that's way over-optimistic.

Beal is starting to worry me.

He certainly could look better! But I think that's way over-pessimistic!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To me, the only real debate is.. who better could they have gotten for the Lewis contract at the time ? Thats where you can judge EG. As for approach. That was on Ted. Its his money.

He could have chosen among FAs Omer Asik, Danny Green, Lou Williams, Ryan Anderson, Ersan Ilyasova, and Gerald Green.

He could have acquired an amnestied player like Elton Brand.

Or, he could have simply saved his money and allowed the dreams of James Singleton, Morris Almond, and Shelvin Mack to come true and given them multiyear-guaranteed deals at minimum salary. And to stay cheap he could have signed good players like Damion James and Joshua Akognon.

We have mentioned all these things in a forum accessible to the Wizards for free. Grunfeld and Leonsis think they know better but for all their resources we are better than they are in deciding quality basketball moves. Big money, pride, and positional authority allow them to be perceived as competent. It is only fitting that they are attracted to overpaid, underachieving veterans.

[payitforward]

^^ Fickle fickle Zards supporters....

This was Beals 2nd.... That's right 2nd! Game in the NBA. Not only that he has not played one game with his future backcourt co-superstar! ...

Great to see ... Crawford gain some confidence.

Well, it's ridiculous to worry about 19-year old Bradley Beal after two games, you are right.

On the other hand, you may just overstating in the other direction, don't you think? After 2 games? Not to mention that Wall first has to become an overall above average performer before we trot out "superstar" (or even "very good point guard") for him.

I hadn't noticed Crawford lacking confidence before this game, btw -- it's nice to see his shot go in. Is that what you mean? It so rarely does....