WAS at DET Preseason Game Thread

Brapman · Post #241 » by **Brapman** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:43 pm

By the way, Beal is the 73rd best player in the league according to the ESPN player ranking, and Monroe is #42. I'm clear that Beal will/should way up the rankings, but Monroe will likely settle in the top 20-30 player range for most of his career.

nuposse04 · Post #242 » by **nuposse04** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:47 pm

Brapman wrote:Beal and Monroe are all-star caliber (but young) players. They are equivalent talents in this league.

Beal has perennial all star written all over him. He's becoming a two way player. All I see is Boozer when I see monroe. I use to like Monroe a lot, but I dont want to be the team that actually gives up anything of value for him. Especially considering he's about to get paid.

Porter, IMO, has major disappointment/bust written all over him. A jack of all trades in college, but who isn't good enough at anything to be a factor in the NBA. There is no chance that the Pistons would move Monroe for him.

that is ur opinon, but I'm guessing you didn't watch Porter much in college. Keep Monroe then.

Now that said, while I get what you are saying about Monroe, know that he isn't that bad defensively, although he'll never make any all-defensive NBA teams. However, bigs in this league are worth more than SG's.

Maringal defensive bigs that put up uninspiring TS% in their 3rd years while having negative oRTG/dRTG scores don't have as much value as top 5 caliber SGs who are on their rookie contract. Peddle that crap elsewhere.

That's why Monroe has the cachet Beal does in terms of value around the league. Finally, I acknowledge that I think Beal is the best young SG prospect in the league, aside from Harden I guess. He has the look of a great two way player. So, I'm not suggesting that this would be an easy trade from Washington's perspective. Trading a young great player, and a perfect compliment for Wall, would not be easy.

Beal and Wall won't be broken up for a borderline all star type player, which is what Monroe is. If you don't Porter+picks for him, fine look elsewhere. I personally think Porter will be a better basketball player then Monroe but with the lack of development from Jan/Seraphin we are looking for a quality defender/rebounder. Of those roles Monroe only fills one, and is quite expensive. So you tell me, what kind of value does he really have to us?

The Pistons have a GM who would trade his grandma in the right deal. Stackhouse for Rip, Chauncey to Denver, Knight for Jennings. From our perspective, if there's a trade for a player who's a better fit, Joe will make the deal. My question is about whether that makes sense for building your team in the future. I can totally get why you might say "no."

Its not just a no, it is a vehement no. The ONLY guy I like on the pistons long term is Drummond. But he has a chance to be damn good (although, GOOD GOD at his FTs), so I won't waste my time asking about him. I'd expect the same courtesy about Beal.

nuposse04 · Post #243 » by **nuposse04** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:48 pm

Brapman wrote:By the way, Beal is the 73rd best player in the league according to the ESPN player ranking, and Monroe is #42. I'm clear that Beal will/should way up the rankings, but Monroe will likely settle in the top 20-30 player range for most of his career.

This is all I need to know about you, you use ESPN player rankings as a judge of player worth. Enjoy your floor spacing. But I am jelly about drummond.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #244 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:49 pm

Brapman, I think the Wizards so far have brought Otto Porter into a perfect storm of bad situations:

1. Washington drafted him behind two very solid, still-young SFs, Ariza and Webster. 2. They played Otto out of position at SG in summer league. 3. They took him from a Princeton offense where Porter relied on movement off the ball and tried to make Porter/NBA create with the ball-- that's not his game. 4. Washington, instead of picking up PG help or a big, drafted another much more athletic wing, more physically-mature player, Glen Rice Jr.-- in the same draft behind Otto. Otto probably thought EVERYBODY'S BETTER than himself early on. That's the way the Wizards roll, not putting a lot of thought into player development IMO. Porter has struggled for reasons beyond his control plus his injury.

He's not as bad as early indications IMO. Porter won't be bad ... (the Wizards draft and craft teams in ways that are bad, however, IMO).

Brapman, Otto might become a Wes Johnson-like, relative bust but I rather doubt it. As a Pistons fan, you have had two players I think Otto Porter's career will emulate: Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince.

I think Porter is going to be a good slasher and he'll pass well, defend well, and he's going to hit midrange shots effectively. He's going to be a better, if not as athletic, Trevor Ariza, eventually, IMO. Porter is the type of player who can be a key member of a winning team for years and years. He's a smart player and I think Otto will be good down the road.

Brapman · Post #245 » by **Brapman** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Yeah, it's way too early to feel confident about predictions (good or bad) about Porter. But I sure hated what I saw when I watched him this summer. He didn't look like an NBA quality athlete at all. He seemed totally overwhelmed, and incapable.

If you guys got to have a do-over, however, would you not take it and draft someone else?

nuposse04 · Post #246 » by **nuposse04** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:16 pm

Brapman wrote:Yeah, it's way too early to feel confident about predictions (good or bad) about Porter. But I sure hated what I saw when I watched him this summer. He didn't look like an NBA quality athlete at all. He seemed totally overwhelmed, and incapable.

If you guys got to have a do-over, however, would you not take it and draft someone else?

Noel, even if he misses a year, you take the guy with the most upside. We have starting caliber SFs. That or simply trade back while attaining assets. I'm personally happy with Porter, but Noel was there and he was still my fav guy in this draft.

Brapman · Post #247 » by **Brapman** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:21 pm

If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

nuposse04 · Post #248 » by **nuposse04** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:25 pm

Brapman wrote:If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

we weren't ever in a position to acquire Oladipo or bennett. Drafting Victor and trading him would have been ideal as there are many people high on him. Some people like Zeller...I'm not pro Zeller...but I started out the whole draft process anti Zeller and eventually had to concede the guy had skills that can translate. Had we known Okafor was going to be out, of course we'd go a bigman. Such is the life of wizards fans.

Brapman · Post #249 » by **Brapman** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:31 pm

My bad, I was thinking Olynyk (not Oladipo), and brain-farted about Bennett's availability.

Nivek · Post #250 » by **Nivek** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:41 pm

Brapman wrote:If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

I had Zeller and Noel rated ahead of Porter before the draft. I still had Porter rated 5th overall, so I didn't view it as much of a stretch to take him third.

I sorta understand why folks are down about him -- he hasn't played. The only time he got some run in a quasi-Wizards uniform was in summer league, where the team had him playing out of position.

That said, I don't see any reason to worry about him long-term. He should be a good NBA player when he gets healthy. If the Wizards can resist the urge to make him a hybrid PG-C.

TGW · Post #251 » by **TGW** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:44 pm

There's no way I'd trade Beal for Monroe. None.

Brapman · Post #252 » by **Brapman** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:57 pm

I hear ya. I love Beal. Just to be clear, I also love Monroe. And I'm a big KCP fan, and think he has a chance to be a great fit for the Pistons. If the fit works in Detroit, then if I were the Pistons GM, I wouldn't make the move I was speculating about.

The thing is, I'm certain about Beal. Not as certain about KCP. So, I'm just looking from a fit perspective. If KCP doesn't make it, then the Pistons will badly need a player just like Beal at SG, and if we did move Monroe that might help with the timing for a cramped salary situation, plus we have Tony Mitchell, Datome, Singler, and Josh Smith - which is a lot of talent and fit at the F positions to surround Drummond. If KCP breaksthrough, then I'm standing pat.

tontoz · Post #253 » by **tontoz** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:06 pm

Nivek wrote:
Brapman wrote:If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

I had Zeller and Noel rated ahead of Porter before the draft. I still had Porter rated 5th overall, so I didn't view it as much of a stretch to take him third.

I sorta understand why folks are down about him -- he hasn't played. The only time he got some run in a quasi-Wizards uniform was in summer league, where the team had him playing out of position.

That said, I don't see any reason to worry about him long-term. He should be a good NBA player when he gets healthy. If the Wizards can resist the urge to make him a hybrid PG-C.

I am glad i wasn't eating or drinking when i read that. Things would have gotten messy.

dobrojim · Post #254 » by **dobrojim** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:08 pm

kinda easy to be down on OP since all he's done so far is look out of place in SL
and then proceeds to get hurt, not be able to play and fall way behind in camp.
That said, there are plenty of good things about him, most of which are still true,
that had so many of us liking him as the pick at 3. Could he still bust? Yup.
I kinda doubt it though.

just keep in mind SL means nothing and we have not seen him play since then.

payitforward · Post #255 » by **payitforward** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:54 pm

gesa2 wrote:I think the public view of CCJ is way more positive than negative. He's just been around here long enough that we've all told him we love him already.

I should hope so! One of the most interesting and valuable members of this community -- my hats off to you CCJ.

And who cares if we disagree from time to time. What fun would there be here if everyone agreed all the time?

Knighthonor · Post #256 » by **Knighthonor** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:35 pm

tontoz wrote:
Nivek wrote:
Brapman wrote:If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

I had Zeller and Noel rated ahead of Porter before the draft. I still had Porter rated 5th overall, so I didn't view it as much of a stretch to take him third.

I sorta understand why folks are down about him -- he hasn't played. The only time he got some run in a quasi-Wizards uniform was in summer league, where the team had him playing out of position.

That said, I don't see any reason to worry about him long-term. He should be a good NBA player when he gets healthy. If the Wizards can resist the urge to make him a hybrid PG-C.

I am glad i wasn't eating or drinking when i read that. Things would have gotten messy.

I believe he is referring to a Point Forward. Like Lebron James.

Nivek · Post #257 » by **Nivek** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:46 pm

Knighthonor wrote:
tontoz wrote:
Nivek wrote:
I had Zeller and Noel rated ahead of Porter before the draft. I still had Porter rated 5th overall, so I didn't view it as much of a stretch to take him third.

I sorta understand why folks are down about him -- he hasn't played. The only time he got some run in a quasi-Wizards uniform was in summer league, where the team had him playing out of position.

That said, I don't see any reason to worry about him long-term. He should be a good NBA player when he gets healthy. If the Wizards can resist the urge to make him a hybrid PG-C.

I am glad i wasn't eating or drinking when i read that. Things would have gotten messy.
I believe he is referring to a Point Forward. Like Lebron James.

No, because that might actually make sense. I'm talking about what the Wizards MIGHT try to do with Porter. Which is something that could well make no sense whatsoever. Sorta like taking a kid who played forward in a motion system in college and putting him at SG and asking him to create offense off the dribble in summer league.

Knighthonor · Post #258 » by **Knighthonor** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:36 am

Nivek wrote:
Knighthonor wrote:
tontoz wrote:

I am glad i wasn't eating or drinking when i read that. Things would have gotten messy.
I believe he is referring to a Point Forward. Like Lebron James.

No, because that might actually make sense. I'm talking about what the Wizards MIGHT try to do with Porter. Which is something that could well make no sense whatsoever. Sorta like taking a kid who played forward in a motion system in college and putting him at SG and asking him to create offense off the dribble in summer league.

oh okay I understand. was a sarcastic argument. I get it now.

deneem4 · Post #259 » by **deneem4** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:55 am

But tht summer league...he was having trouble against the bigger sf...u do things like tht..u test limitations tht way u go into the training camp knowing wht u need to work...u get a feel for strengths and weakness at a sorta nba level...its lik oladipo playing point...hes not a point at all...he jus became sn offensive weapon, but hes a hard worker, n thts wht the team need him to do...same with porter, beal weight more than him...u csnt expect him to bang with nba forwards at tht size

Post #260 » by **Rafael122** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:11 pm

Brapman wrote:If Noel can make the leap and stay healthy in the NBA, he'd have been a great rim protector on a team with your two star guards. I was not in love with Noel as a prospect - but for sure, he has crazy great defensive potential.

How about Bennett, Zeller or Oladipo? Would you guys rather now have picked any of those 4 guys (including Noel), instead of Porter?

I would still take Porter. Noel isn't even going to play this season, and I haven't heard squat about Alex Len so...there you go. Bennett isn't even in game shape, Zeller might win the PF job based on the fact that they probably have no other choice.

A good coach would hide a player's weaknesses and exploit his strengths. Wittman and company need to look at game tape from his Hoyas day, that's how you use him, not as a point forward, or a stretch 4. He's a natural 3.