Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[LyricalRico]

^ barely, that starting front court can't be counted on to stay healthy. Pass.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd rather have Gortat than Chandler even if Chandler was a UFA willing to sign for the same amount of money as Gortat. Gortat is our guy and he works really well here. Gortat has been very reliable whereas Chandler has gotten hurt almost every season.

As to DF's point, if we could pick up Noah Vonleh or Julius Randle for a bargain, I would definitely consider it. But I wouldn't be in a hurry to take on a collegiate project since we've yet to even take Porter out of the box.

[barelyawake]

I'd rather have Gortat than Chandler even if Chandler was a UFA willing to sign for the same amount of money as Gortat. Gortat is our guy and he works really well here. Gortat has been very reliable whereas Chandler has gotten hurt almost every season.

As to DF's point, if we could pick up Noah Vonleh or Julius Randle for a bargain, I would definitely consider it. But I wouldn't be in a hurry to take on a collegiate project since we've yet to even take Porter out of the box.

The problem with Gortat is how long his contract will run (that and he doesn't get star calls and his defense isn't contender quality). The good thing about Chandler is a) He's a rim protector and b) His contract runs out. The goal is to get an actual star here (Durant). Gortat (and Nene's contract) makes it so that can't happen. However, with Chandler and Nene we can both compete next year, and also get major cap to bring a star in. That would be my goal.

PS I'd love a top ten drafted big in what is considered a great draft too (especially for a bargain). There is no way that happens (unless you are trading Beal), and I doubt that would be considered a bargain. I'd give up Beal and Porter for one of the top bigs in 2014. Hmmmm.... Maybe that's the ticket.

Wall
Deal Webster for a SG say Shump
Ariza
Randle/Nene
Gortat

Or

Wall
Sign Thabo or deal Webster for a SG
Ariza
Nene/Booker/Noah
Gortat/Noah

Gives us the young big and the cap to pursue Durant (once we deal Nene, probably could deal Gortat too in two years for cap). Huh... I like it. A lot.

Maybe just Beal, a future first, and a future second for Noah.
No idea if any of this is possible. But worth a look and a few phone calls.

[Youheardme90]

How much would it take to get Anthony Davis ?

[dangermouse]

How much would it take to get Anthony Davis ?

some really compromising photos of Dell Demps.

[mohammed10]

How much would it take to get Anthony Davis ?

some really compromising photos of Dell Demps.

- Ture. It's been a while, but have we given up on Monroe, or just waiting until the Summer?

[dobrojim]

some of us have at least some questions as to how much we might have
to pay to get him and whether he is really likely to be better than Gortat
over the next 2-4 years (length of contract).

[Dat2U]

Gotta wonder if there's any ability for us to trade into this draft. When you get outside of the top 5 of Wiggins, Jabari, Embiid, Smart, and Exum there's not a lot there that teams would really want. Sacramento can't be all that high on a guy like Randle, the Lakers can't be too excited about Vonleh, the Cavs aren't exactly livid about the prospects of Hood, Gary Harris, Ennis...

In particular I'm looking at both Randle and Vonleh...you have to think something like Porter + an 2015 pick might get it done to grab the 6th or 7th overall in this draft.

How would you guys feel about that?

If Washington could simply trade the rights to Otto Porter for Doug McDermott, I would be thrilled.

Maybe I am wrong, but at least I am excited about McDermott as a shooter.

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The 2015 draft is filled with big men. This draft? Not so much. I would much rather trade for a vet and a 2015 pick or an underperforming younger player than a 2014 pick (especially considering how valuable 2014 picks are perceived to be). I think Nate had it right with BOYD trades. If we can't get a star big now (with cap and future picks), we should get past stars on contracts that end in 2016.

I'm really focused on Shumpert (as a back-up) and Chandler, as the rim protector to make us a top defensive team. I understand both are dipping. Thus, why we can probably get them. Rumors have both gone this summer. Chandler would not cement our future. But, he may carry us past the second round with a healthy Nene. And that would attract the real free agents in 2016.

Wall/Miller
Beal/Shump
Ariza/Otto
Nene/Booker
Chandler/vet center

Is a top defensive team. Haven't figured the numbers, or trade scenarios yet, to see what is possible.

Chandler is still a very good defensive C but you better have a rock solid backup behind him to start for the 20-25 games he'll inevitably miss.

I'm ambivalent about Shump. Only reason people even know his name is because he plays in NY.

But considering all of that, I would do Nene & Porter for Chandler & Shumpert.

[payitforward]

LyricalRico and I don't agree about much, but we are in complete agreement that signing Tyson Chandler would be the wrong thing to do. The last thing we need is more players in the twilight of their careers -- except low-cost ones who are projected for say 15 minutes a game. In other words -- Drew Gooden? Sure, obviously! But Tyson Chandler is just as obvious in the other direction.

The place to start in thinking about our future is by making a list of whom we have that we can count on for productivity and is also under contract for next year. Unfortunately, that's a very short list: John Wall, Bradley Beal, and Martell Webster.

You could add Trevor Booker, since we control him for next year and he's shown how productive he can be this year (and has stayed healthy), and Andre Miller, since we have an option on him, and maybe even Drew Gooden, even though he's a UFA at the end of the season, just because he won't make more anywhere else and he likes/lives in DC. Miller and Gooden are risks for health/injury, and they are 15-minute-a-game players, so you have to discount their value a bit in totting up what we have going forward.

Assuming those guys are all here, they'd probably play @55-60% of our available minutes; we'd have the back court covered for starter and main backup guy, some minutes from Martell backing up the 3, and Booker and Gooden slotted to provide subs at 4 and 5.

What are the next obvious moves? Well, to me at least, it seems obvious we'll re-sign Gortat at something a bit North of $10m. We don't plan to target a younger guy for his role as starting 5, at least nothing would suggest that, and compared to other 5s/salaries he's good value for the $.

I can't see how Ariza doesn't get a $$ bump this off-season. He has played at an incredibly high level and is bound to draw lots of interest. Given the way Ernie runs this team, it's almost certain he'll be re-signed -- unless someone makes some outlandish offer.

After those 8 guys, it's all bad news and question marks. Nene played 1750 minutes last year and 1500 minutes this year. It's 4 years since he managed over 2000 minutes. And he has gotten way worse over that time. He went down and we proceeded to win a bunch of games in a row; that ought to tell you everything you need to know.

Porter is a complete mystery. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he won't be good. Maybe he'll never play.

That's 10 guys. Assuming things unfold per the above, they cost us @ $65m. NO WAY we are adding a high-priced FA to that list. If we are active in that realm, say goodbye to Ariza or Gortat, and I don't see better value out there to tell the truth. Present value, I mean, and I don't think Ted and Ernie are aiming for the future, are they?

The rest of the roster is trash; you want to light it up with your hope lantern, go ahead -- but that light comes from you not what the player puts up. Harrington, Singleton, Seraphin, Temple and Rice. They're all UFAs except Seraphin, and none of them either fills a gaping hole or has made us a better team yet. We're only 10 w/o them, so maybe some will stay, and if not we'll have to find some other cheap players somewhere.

Best place to find a cheap player who might be a big addition is from the draft. But we won't have a Round 1 pick. And our only chance in Round 2 would be if Ernie is gone.

Based on the above, we have a shot to be as good next year as we have been this year. We also have a shot to be worse of course -- injuries, replacing TA and/or MG w/ guys who don't produce as much, stuff like that.

Do we have a shot to be better than this year? I find it hard to see it, but... if Wall gets even better, Beal actually produces more as I think is pretty likely (he's been no more productive this year than last, still learning), Martell doesn't get injured, Porter turns into a player, we re-sign TA and MG, and Nene doesn't slide too too much further, then... I guess it's possible, and of course I hope it happens.

Best possible thing for us would be if we were somehow able to trade Nene. That would alter our situation in a big way. But, it doesn't seem likely.

Edit: (sorry this was so long...) One other way for us to improve is to be lucky. We have been in the past -- ping pong balls. We are this year in what we're getting from Gooden. Maybe it'll happen again. Porter emerges; Rice actually is an NBA player; Seraphin does a mind-meld with Robert Parrish; the gods give us a terrific player in R2; or, best of all possibilities -- Ernie Grunfeld retires!

[Dark Faze]

I still don't see why we need Gortat at all. We need to keep our flexibility because the only thing that can really help us moving forward is having cap space to obtain an all-star piece.

I'd love to get both Okafor and Jordan Hill on two year deals for a little above market value. Let Seraphin and Book walk, extend Gooden and Harrington.

Wall/Miller
Beal/Rice
Ariza/Webster/Porter
Nene/Gooden
Okafor/Hill

Honestly? That team should be locked into a 3 seed in the East. It's got more upside than signing Gortat long term and maintains more flexibility.

[barelyawake]

Dat, I doubt New York takes Nene. They want to free space for 2015 (like we do for 2016). Nene can always flip to center in case of injury, and I like the idea of resigning Okafor as well (at a discount).

Again, the point (like getting Okafor, and then Gortat, and then Gooden in the first place) is to excel now, while eyeing 2016 when the real free agents are available (Durant, Noah, etc).

But, now I like the idea of using Beal to trade into this draft. It would be a redo of the Drummond mistake. Just need to hope a team decides it needs a SG more than a C or large PF. Obviously, I would rather DF's trade with Porter and picks. I doubt that does it.

[LyricalRico]

I still don't see why we need Gortat at all. We need to keep our flexibility because the only thing that can really help us moving forward is having cap space to obtain an all-star piece.

I'd love to get both Okafor and Jordan Hill on two year deals for a little above market value. Let Seraphin and Book walk, extend Gooden and Harrington.

Wall/Miller
Beal/Rice
Ariza/Webster/Porter
Nene/Gooden
Okafor/Hill

Honestly? That team should be locked into a 3 seed in the East. It's got more upside than signing Gortat long term and maintains more flexibility.

Wow, really disagree here. On principle, I think everyone has to at least consider the argument that committing a huge number to Gortat is less appealing than what could be had with the flexibility we get from not doing that (I prefer Gortat, but I respect the argument).

But I think your plan simultaneously underrates Gortat while also overrating the ability of Nene/Okafor to stay healthy over the next 2 years, especially when you're talking about going for third place in the East.

[Dark Faze]

I still don't see why we need Gortat at all. We need to keep our flexibility because the only thing that can really help us moving forward is having cap space to obtain an all-star piece.

I'd love to get both Okafor and Jordan Hill on two year deals for a little above market value. Let Seraphin and Book walk, extend Gooden and Harrington.

Wall/Miller
Beal/Rice
Ariza/Webster/Porter
Nene/Gooden
Okafor/Hill

Honestly? That team should be locked into a 3 seed in the East. It's got more upside than signing Gortat long term and maintains more flexibility.

Wow, really disagree here. On principle, I think everyone has to at least consider the argument that committing a huge number to Gortat is less appealing than what could be had with the flexibility we get from not doing that (I prefer Gortat, but I respect the argument).

But I think your plan simultaneously underrates Gortat while also overrating the ability of Nene/Okafor to stay healthy over the next 2 years, especially when you're talking about going for third place in the East.

Maybe you missed the part where I said to also bring in Jordan Hill?

Statistically speaking we were around .500 the second half of last year with Okafor playing C (including a terrible bench) but were a better defensive team. You replace Gortat with Okafor and throw in our new found bench and I don't see us losing much.

And that's without taking Jordan Hill into account. Hill has had some injury concerns but that's what lets you get both Okafor and Hill on the cheap. As well Gooden can double as a C as well as Nene if miraculously both guys go down.

Hill for the last two years has posted an ORTG of 113. He's been a 15 and 13 guy the last two seasons per 36 minutes. I really don't see how anyone can argue that Gortat is better than having both of those guys.

With the depth the center position has in the league all of a sudden in combination with Hill and Okafors injury history I think we can get them both for a little more than it would cost to just get Gortat. Give both guys around 7 a year for two seasons with a player option for the second year in case their stock looks amazing at the end of the summer and they want to test free agency.

If they want a little more we can always move Web for cap room.

[LyricalRico]

No, I saw Hill. Just not feeling him as the answer. I hear your argument, but I'd still prefer Gortat over half a season of Okafor with Hill filling in as the starter the rest of the time.

Now, if you're talking about bring in Hill to be a third big that backs-up-and-sometimes-plays-with Gortat, I'm MUCH more interested.

[montestewart]

No, I saw Hill. Just not feeling him as the answer. I hear your argument, but I'd still prefer Gortat over half a season of Okafor with Hill filling in as the starter the rest of the time.

Now, if you're talking about bring in Hill to be a third big that backs-up-and-sometimes-plays-with Gortat, I'm MUCH more interested.

That sounds better, but can they afford that? I'm also not a fan of penciling Harrington in just yet. He's shown a little lately, but overall he's not having a very good season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Washington could simply trade the rights to Otto Porter for Doug McDermott, I would be thrilled.

Maybe I am wrong, but at least I am excited about McDermott as a shooter.

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The 2015 draft is filled with big men. This draft? Not so much. I would much rather trade for a vet and a 2015 pick or an underperforming younger player than a 2014 pick (especially considering how valuable 2014 picks are perceived to be). I think Nate had it right with BOYD trades. If we can't get a star big now (with cap and future picks), we should get past stars on contracts that end in 2016.

I'm really focused on Shumpert (as a back-up) and Chandler, as the rim protector to make us a top defensive team. I understand both are dipping. Thus, why we can probably get them. Rumors have both gone this summer. Chandler would not cement our future. But, he may carry us past the second round with a healthy Nene. And that would attract the real free agents in 2016.

Wall/Miller
Beal/Shump
Ariza/Otto
Nene/Booker
Chandler/vet center

Is a top defensive team. Haven't figured the numbers, or trade scenarios yet, to see what is possible.

Chandler is still a very good defensive C but you better have a rock solid backup behind him to start for the 20-25 games he'll inevitably miss.

I'm ambivalent about Shump. Only reason people even know his name is because he plays in NY.

But considering all of that, I would do Nene & Porter for Chandler & Shumpert.

I would do that deal, also, unless...Nene returns and has a strong playoffs.

I think the Wizards may be well enough off returning Gooden at a discount, plus adding someone like Jordan Hill, along with whatever Nene has left.

Sure, Chandler is a near elite defensive big man, but I think the Wizards might have a bit of good chemistry between Nene and the stretch 4/5 bigs. Chandler neither passes nor scores as well as Nene.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

No, I saw Hill. Just not feeling him as the answer. I hear your argument, but I'd still prefer Gortat over half a season of Okafor with Hill filling in as the starter the rest of the time.

Now, if you're talking about bring in Hill to be a third big that backs-up-and-sometimes-plays-with Gortat, I'm MUCH more interested.

Yeah, Hill in place of Seraphin and Booker makes sense to me.

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[Illuminaire]

Hill would be a great guy for any team on the cheap. His offense sucks, but he's sneakily an elite rebounder. I'm not sure how his defense checks out though... he's tended to be on poor defensive teams, and I don't know how much of that is him.

[verbal8]

Hill would be a great guy for any team on the cheap. His offense sucks, but he's sneakily an elite rebounder. I'm not sure how his defense checks out though... he's tended to be on poor defensive teams, and I don't know how much of that is him.

If he is on the cheap, I would like the acquisition. However I don't know how cheap he will be. At something around his current deal 2/$7 million, I would be interested. Beyond that in years or money and I am much less confident.

Hickson is in the same ballpark in terms of box score stats and got a full MLE deal.

[stevemcqueen1]

The return on trading Porter would be too low to justify giving up on his upside as a starter. I'd rather have Nene than Chandler straight up.