Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart
dangermouse wrote:"we need to find a kawhi"
We could have had THE Kawhi if it wasnt for EG. He picked Czech Griffin who isnt even in the league anymore, one of his biggest blunders ever. I wanted Kawhi, im sure 99% of the board did.
Illuminaire wrote:dangermouse wrote:"we need to find a kawhi"
We could have had THE Kawhi if it wasnt for EG. He picked Czech Griffin who isnt even in the league anymore, one of his biggest blunders ever. I wanted Kawhi, im sure 99% of the board did.
Actually, a lot of people were saying his shot was too shaky and it wasn't clear he could produce offense on the NBA level. I remember this clearly because I was one of the few people loudly calling for him as the pick.
Kawhi will forever be my white whale.
dangermouse wrote:"we need to find a kawhi"
We could have had THE Kawhi if it wasnt for EG. He picked Czech Griffin who isnt even in the league anymore, one of his biggest blunders ever. I wanted Kawhi, im sure 99% of the board did.
Illuminaire wrote:dangermouse wrote:"we need to find a kawhi"
We could have had THE Kawhi if it wasnt for EG. He picked Czech Griffin who isnt even in the league anymore, one of his biggest blunders ever. I wanted Kawhi, im sure 99% of the board did.
Actually, a lot of people were saying his shot was too shaky and it wasn't clear he could produce offense on the NBA level. I remember this clearly because I was one of the few people loudly calling for him as the pick.
Kawhi will forever be my white whale.
Kawhi Leonard will have a solid NBA career as a glue guy. He'll make his squad better when he's on the court and will add positive intensity in the locker room. He's one of those players who both understands the game and loves it with joy and determination, thus is a lock to continue to improve. He'd fit any Larry Brown team and become a team captain for him, whether starting or off the bench, since he plays defense with intuitive intelligence and dedication.
Physically, he's got the profile of a player who can rebound outsized to his position. Solid torso, no neck, long arms, wide chest, low center of gravity. Whether Paul Millsapp or Ron Artest, this sort of morphotype tends to be able to continue to show the same success at the next level that they demonstrated in college, holding their position on the block, sealing their man with a cement solid wall, but still rebounding outside their area with long arms and leverage.
What's better, as a small forward he's the best kind of tweener on defense. He'll be able to hold his ground against bigger players, is skinnyish now relative to his frame, though his frame is solid already. Which is to say he'll take weight well, and since his game is not based on above the rim balletics he can add strength anyway he wants. And those arms are practically Biyombo in length. Ridiculously long. He'll be able to challenge shots, steal, and surprise players with his length. He's the tweener that plays bigger than his position on defense.
On this squad, well, there's no immediate net positive or great synergy since he has no developed outside shot. His form has improved with practice apparently, but it's still deliberate and slow, not reflexive. And in games this year his form was pretty deliberate and slow (in addition to looking awkward). A big man like Enes can get away with a catapult-slow release, since his man will be more reluctant to chase him too far from the paint, but a SF benefits from a gunslingers quickdraw since their defensive match-ups are quite often both long and quick. Needs improvement an confidence. His decent FT% though suggests he won't suffer from the 'big hand curse'. Never understood that. MJ had hands like garbage can lids and dude could shoot the ball with finesse.
Still, the fact that Kawhi may take a minute to improve and won't account for immediate instant jump in the standings only means still we get decent draft position next year, when the draft may contain that difference maker.
In short: Kawhi Leonard builds the bench, adds good chemistry, improves defense, adds BBall IQ, good passing, toughness, the useful sort of athleticism: utilitarian more than highlight reel. He's Trevor Booker as an actual small forward. He adds no great impact in the win/loss column this year, though he passes the championship eyetest: you can easily see him earning playoff minutes on a championship team during his career. If we're stocking the bench with depth of toughness and versatility on defense, then we've got a player in Kawhi. If all we get this year is more foundation players, that's as much as you can ask.
I wouldn't mind trading up from 18 to pick him. Wouldn't complain if that's the best we got from a 6th pick if the lotto balls fell wrong. Would be happy to trade back and take him if we get bids-for-value on a 4th pick. Most drafts are full of reaches and hopefuls and upside guys, most of whom never pan out. If you can get a sure thing who will play a solid career, I'm happy. I'd be more comfortable taking Kawhi over a 'defender' like Jan Vesely who can't already rebound the ball in the Euroleague.
Kawhi Leonard is a baller. He can play on my team.
nate33 wrote:Illuminaire wrote:dangermouse wrote:"we need to find a kawhi"
We could have had THE Kawhi if it wasnt for EG. He picked Czech Griffin who isnt even in the league anymore, one of his biggest blunders ever. I wanted Kawhi, im sure 99% of the board did.
Actually, a lot of people were saying his shot was too shaky and it wasn't clear he could produce offense on the NBA level. I remember this clearly because I was one of the few people loudly calling for him as the pick.
Kawhi will forever be my white whale.
I skimmed through the 2011 draft thread I posted. Yes, you did like Leonard. It wasn't a "draft him at all costs" type of love, but you felt he was clearly the best and safest pick if we didn't land Kanter. You compared him to Josh Howard or Caron Butler - a nice "glue guy" who maybe wasn't quite good enough to be a star, but there's nothing wrong with landing a solid starter with the #6 pick.
Overall the board was mostly in favor of drafting Kanter if at all possible. We were pretty excited when a lot of mocks thought Kanter would slip to 6th. Doc favored JV over Kanter but wasn't all that sure of it. Nobody really thought we had a shot of landing a star caliber player at #6. We were pretty meh at most of the other names slotted in our draft area: Valanciunas, Biyombo, Vesely, Leonard, Marcus Morris. CCJ liked Faried even at #6.
I too had an irrational love for Kanter and was willing to trade up for him. But I will boast that I had Leonard as my preferred pick if Kanter was unavailable.
payitforward wrote:I wasn't here, but I was clear that I would have taken Kawhi #6 given the availabilities when we chose. I wanted either Faried or Tobias Harris @#18, & I was hoping against hope that Jimmy Butler would be there for us at #34
None of the above. Ernie knows best. Mack was his best pick that year -- & he waived him!! Guy's still in the league... a journeyman but still in the league.
Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:I wasn't here, but I was clear that I would have taken Kawhi #6 given the availabilities when we chose. I wanted either Faried or Tobias Harris @#18, & I was hoping against hope that Jimmy Butler would be there for us at #34
None of the above. Ernie knows best. Mack was his best pick that year -- & he waived him!! Guy's still in the league... a journeyman but still in the league.
What was it about Kawhi that caused you to like him so much before he was drafted?
I was more anit-Vesely than pro anything - I was never more bleeped about a pick since they took Jeff Malone over Clyde Drexler. I was hoping that Valancunas would slip to the Wiz pick. I liked Kanter and Derrick Williams more than I should have. I also liked Marcus Morris (as a trade down candidate) - who's finally blossoming this season at 29 - quietly having a very nice season. I couldn't believe they took Singleton over Faried.
montestewart wrote:Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:I wasn't here, but I was clear that I would have taken Kawhi #6 given the availabilities when we chose. I wanted either Faried or Tobias Harris @#18, & I was hoping against hope that Jimmy Butler would be there for us at #34
None of the above. Ernie knows best. Mack was his best pick that year -- & he waived him!! Guy's still in the league... a journeyman but still in the league.
What was it about Kawhi that caused you to like him so much before he was drafted?
I was more anit-Vesely than pro anything - I was never more bleeped about a pick since they took Jeff Malone over Clyde Drexler. I was hoping that Valancunas would slip to the Wiz pick. I liked Kanter and Derrick Williams more than I should have. I also liked Marcus Morris (as a trade down candidate) - who's finally blossoming this season at 29 - quietly having a very nice season. I couldn't believe they took Singleton over Faried.
Didn't we have a poll somewhere, with Kawhi finishing second to "Anyone But Vesely"? I'll see if I can locate that.
I feel like we’ve reached a point with Zion Williamson where the ridiculous things that he is doing on a nightly basis have become normalized.
Take last night for example. In Monday’s win over Notre Dame, Zion had three of the most ridiculous and impressive defensive plays that I have seen him make this season while also putting together a couple of moves on the offense end of the floor that make it quite clear that his future as an NBA player — where spacing will almost never be an issue — is incredibly bright.
And my twitter feed never blew up.
The highlight shows weren’t smothered with clips of the incredible athleticism that was on display.
Have we reached a point where the only way we can get excited by Zion Williamson is when he dribbles through four defenders and dunks on a 7-footer?
I hope not.
Check these clips out, they’re unreal:
nate33 wrote:I came across this today:I feel like we’ve reached a point with Zion Williamson where the ridiculous things that he is doing on a nightly basis have become normalized.
Take last night for example. In Monday’s win over Notre Dame, Zion had three of the most ridiculous and impressive defensive plays that I have seen him make this season while also putting together a couple of moves on the offense end of the floor that make it quite clear that his future as an NBA player — where spacing will almost never be an issue — is incredibly bright.
And my twitter feed never blew up.
The highlight shows weren’t smothered with clips of the incredible athleticism that was on display.
Have we reached a point where the only way we can get excited by Zion Williamson is when he dribbles through four defenders and dunks on a 7-footer?
I hope not.
Check these clips out, they’re unreal:
80sballboy wrote:I watched that ND game last night with Zion and he does things that make no sense for a 6-7, 285-pound player to accomplish. He's a freak and a smart player. Again, who will he defend in the NBA? Maybe his quickness for his size and his strength will allow him to defend some 3s and shorter 4s. I guess it's tough to judge a player you've never really seen since (in-shape) Barkley and he's more athletic. Also seems like he cares about the defensive end a lot more than Sir Charles did.
80sballboy wrote:Here are some of the latest mocks
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/30/nba-mock-draft-2019-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-ja-morant-cam-reddish
(Wiz at 8 get Kevin Porter)
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft
(Wiz at 8 get KC Okpala)
Ruzious wrote:80sballboy wrote:Here are some of the latest mocks
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/30/nba-mock-draft-2019-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-ja-morant-cam-reddish
(Wiz at 8 get Kevin Porter)
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft
(Wiz at 8 get KC Okpala)
I'd rather take a shot at Sekou Doubouya - who's 12th and 15th on those mocks. He perhaps has a slighly lower floor, but he seems to have a significantly higher ceiling.