Davis Bertans "the Latvian Laser"

[dckingsfan]

That's the thing - no guarantee we re-sign him, and if they do sign him - what will be his price?

Trade deadline is a month away - 2/6/20.

In the meantime, a significant Injury to a playoff teams could up the demand for him.

Yep, and I am much more optimistic now about the future. If we garner more trade assets - terrific. If not and we try but can't sign him - fine. Who/what would you want from OKC if you made a trade (they could really use a 3PT shooter for their push)?

We would have a decent core for next year:

Wall/Smith
Beal/Mathews
Brown/Bonga/Schofield
Hachimura/Bonga
Bryant/Wagner

We have our first and a second round pick in the draft.

Then we can see if we can sign Bertans & McCray.

[DCZards]

I'm feeling a lot better about the possibility of trading Bertans. At one point I was much more interested in the Zards hanging on to him and trying to resign, especially with Wall coming back and the possibility that he could create even more open shot opportunities for Bertans.

But, with the improvement of some of the youngins'--and the emergence of Mathews as a true 3 pt sharpshooter--trading Davis for a first round pick (or two) is more and more appealing.

If it's going to cost $15 mil or so to resign Bertans, the Zards are probably better off unloading him while the demand for his services is at its peak.

[nate33]

Lots of interests in the Laser
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/01/06/denver-boston-reportedly-among-teams-seeking-davis-bertans-trade/

"...Sixers, Hawks and Lakers, ...Celtics and Nuggets have emerged as suitors..."

If there's real competition to land Bertans at the deadline, that will significantly increase what we would be able to get for him. The Sixers, Lakers & Nuggets

The Celtics have 3 R1 picks next year -- their own (@#26-28 -- ?), the Grizzlies' (in the lottery), & Milwaukee's (#29-30 --?). Hard to imagine Boston trading that lottery pick for Davis. But, no way are they bringing on 3 rookies again, as they did last year. It's not inconceivable that they'd give 1 or both of the low R1 picks for Davis.

The Hawks have the Nets pick (probably @ #17) in addition to their own. I can imagine them moving the Nets pick for Bertans. Or... am I dreaming?

The Pelicans have the #5 pick in R2 -- right now, that'd get us Tylor Bey. Would they give Josh Hart plus that pick?

These are all deals I would do in a minute! I'm keeping in mind the fact that it's not a lock that we'll be able to re-sign Davis Bertans.

I'm alarmed about the Hawks rumors. If they're interested in him now, they'll surely be interested in him with all of their offseason cap room. They have the ability to outbid us. But with that the case, I seriously doubt they have any intention of sacrificing a quality pick for him.

The teams that will pay the most for Bertans are the contenders with weird cap situations where they are absolutely unable to trade for expensive contracts. Bertans may literally be the best gettable player in the league for teams like Boston, the Lakers or Philly given their cap constraints. How many players are available, better than Bertans, and cost less?

If those rumors are true that the Hawks want him, then I'd be more inclined to trade him. I don't want to get in a bidding war with Atlanta this summer. Getting two of Boston's 1sts would be a very nice haul.

If we do trade for Bertans, then I would also try and trade either Mahinmi or Miles for a longer contract. Trading Mahinmi for a guy like Cody Zeller or Gorgui Dieng (or Miles for a guy like Taj Gibson) would at least add another competent player to the roster next year while giving us tradeable cap ballast if necessary. Otherwise, we'll be in no man's land cap wise with massive luxtax room but no means of getting much above the salary cap.

[dckingsfan]

If we do trade for Bertans, then I would also try and trade either Mahinmi or Miles for a longer contract. Trading Mahinmi for a guy like Cody Zeller or Gorgui Dieng (or Miles for a guy like Taj Gibson) would at least add another competent player to the roster next year while giving us tradeable cap ballast if necessary. Otherwise, we'll be in no man's land cap wise with massive luxtax room but no means of getting much above the salary cap.

One more "weird" thing about this trade deadline. Usually the west is pretty settled at this point. But there are 7 teams in contention for that last spot. I wonder if that slows down the selling process?

[payitforward]

...The Celtics have 3 R1 picks next year -- their own (@#26-28 -- ?), the Grizzlies' (in the lottery), & Milwaukee's (#29-30 --?). Hard to imagine Boston trading that lottery pick for Davis. But, no way are they bringing on 3 rookies again, as they did last year. It's not inconceivable that they'd give 1 or both of the low R1 picks for Davis. ...

...Getting two of Boston's 1sts would be a very nice haul....

Yes, certainly. But, it might be just above what Boston would be ready to give for him.

Would you take the higher of their 2 low round 1 picks? I would.

[payitforward]

That's the thing - no guarantee we re-sign him, and if they do sign him - what will be his price?

Trade deadline is a month away - 2/6/20.

In the meantime, a significant Injury to a playoff teams could up the demand for him.

Yep, and I am much more optimistic now about the future. If we garner more trade assets - terrific. If not and we try but can't sign him - fine. Who/what would you want from OKC if you made a trade (they could really use a 3PT shooter for their push)?

We would have a decent core for next year:

Wall/Smith
Beal/Mathews
Brown/Bonga/Schofield
Hachimura/Bonga
Bryant/Wagner

We have our first and a second round pick in the draft.

Then we can see if we can sign Bertans & McCray.

I don't know why you think it's "fine" to trade for a guy then lose him for nothing the following off-season.

I also don't know why you think we have "a decent core" next year.

You are making significant assumptions about Wall, Mathews, Hachimura, Bonga & Wagner. John's an unknown at this point. The other 4 have not yet established themselves at any level in the NBA. Nor, obviously, has Schofield.

[Ruzious]

That's the thing - no guarantee we re-sign him, and if they do sign him - what will be his price?

Trade deadline is a month away - 2/6/20.

In the meantime, a significant Injury to a playoff teams could up the demand for him.

Yep, and I am much more optimistic now about the future. If we garner more trade assets - terrific. If not and we try but can't sign him - fine. Who/what would you want from OKC if you made a trade (they could really use a 3PT shooter for their push)?

We would have a decent core for next year:

Wall/Smith
Beal/Mathews
Brown/Bonga/Schofield
Hachimura/Bonga
Bryant/Wagner

We have our first and a second round pick in the draft.

Then we can see if we can sign Bertans & McCray.

I don't know why you think it's "fine" to trade for a guy then lose him for nothing the following off-season.

I also don't know why you think we have "a decent core" next year.

You are making significant assumptions about Wall, Mathews, Hachimura, Bonga & Wagner. John's an unknown at this point. The other 4 have not yet established themselves at any level in the NBA. Nor, obviously, has Schofield.

No worries - we'll just schedule all our games for Mondays next season.

[payitforward]

??? Please explain!

Btw, it's certainly possible that Wall returns at his highest level, that Hachimura actually becomes a good player, & that all of Mathews, Bonga & Wagner establish themselves as solid or better NBA players. The problem is only that we can't assume all that right now.

[dckingsfan]

That's the thing - no guarantee we re-sign him, and if they do sign him - what will be his price?

Trade deadline is a month away - 2/6/20.

In the meantime, a significant Injury to a playoff teams could up the demand for him.

Yep, and I am much more optimistic now about the future. If we garner more trade assets - terrific. If not and we try but can't sign him - fine. Who/what would you want from OKC if you made a trade (they could really use a 3PT shooter for their push)?

We would have a decent core for next year:

Wall/Smith
Beal/Mathews
Brown/Bonga/Schofield
Hachimura/Bonga
Bryant/Wagner

We have our first and a second round pick in the draft.

Then we can see if we can sign Bertans & McCray.

I don't know why you think it's "fine" to trade for a guy then lose him for nothing the following off-season.

I also don't know why you think we have "a decent core" next year.

You are making significant assumptions about Wall, Mathews, Hachimura, Bonga & Wagner. John's an unknown at this point. The other 4 have not yet established themselves at any level in the NBA. Nor, obviously, has Schofield.

hehehe - "fine" means that you tried but weren't able to trade him or sign him. It means before some of these youngsters started developing a no trade and no signing would be a disaster.

Your definition of "not fine" would be any trade that in the long-term doesn't result in a positive outcome, no? I am looking at it as a group of signings and trades result in moving forward, maybe you are too (are you on the "fine" bandwagon ).

And yes, I am most certainly making assumptions about the "core". I think the core next year with or without a Bertans trade/signing is still better than what I "expected" for next year. I am more than pleasantly surprised. But that is relative, right?

I am very high on the combination of Bryant/Wagner. But I am a fan (irrational exuberance and all that). I am very high on Brown/Bonga, I think they are going to be very solid and will improve nicely next season (definitely an assumption ). I am equally high on Wall/Smith being much better than IT/Smith. And I think that Beal is going to return back to form next year.

I am not very high on Hachimura - I like you wanted Brandon Clarke (or should I say I was on the Brandon Clarke bandwagon after he was brought to my attention, I am much more of an international hoops guy than a college basketball guy) and I would have done whatever I could have done to trade down and grab Clarke.

But alas, even though I think the Clarke miss wasn't positive - I am very high on what Tommy has assembled.

[nate33]

I am very high on the combination of Bryant/Wagner. But I am a fan (irrational exuberance and all that). I am very high on Brown/Bonga, I think they are going to be very solid and will improve nicely next season (definitely an assumption ). I am equally high on Wall/Smith being much better than IT/Smith. And I think that Beal is going to return back to form next year.

I'm not all that high on the combo of Bryant/Wagner. I think they're kind of redundant. I like them both, but I really only want to keep one - I'm not sure which at the moment. I want a rim protecting center paired with one of them.

I like Brown and think Bonga has potential. I think at least one of them will pan out to be a serviceable starter, but they're not difference makers unless they make substantial improvement going forward. (Their age makes that a possibility though.)

I agree that Wall will be a massive upgrade. I think he is going to be close to his former self - maybe a slightly remade version with a better outside shot and less penetration.

I am not very high on Hachimura - I like you wanted Brandon Clarke (or should I say I was on the Brandon Clarke bandwagon after he was brought to my attention, I am much more of an international hoops guy than a college basketball guy) and I would have done whatever I could have done to trade down and grab Clarke.

Hachimura has been underwhelming so far. His best quality is that he's reportedly a freakishly hard worker and very smart. Hopefully, that means he'll get much better over time. I just wish he had better rebounding instincts.

[payitforward]

Actually, dckingsfan, I agree with you right down the line (w/ the exception that I'm not as high on Wagner). & once "relative" gets in there -- sure, why not? It can be a decent core.

[gambitx777]

I don't think we want the wall of old back. I think we want a more team minded wall. One that leads the league in assists but his attempts are down but it's shooting % are up taking better shots hitting 3 balls. And getting to the line. No hero ball wall I'd be happy with 15 ppg 10-11 assists a game and good rebounds and good team minded D.

??? Please explain!

Btw, it's certainly possible that Wall returns at his highest level, that Hachimura actually becomes a good player, & that all of Mathews, Bonga & Wagner establish themselves as solid or better NBA players. The problem is only that we can't assume all that right now.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[DCZards]

All this talk about a "decent core" going forward and no mention of AP? He may ultimately turn out to be one of Tommy's most important finds, especially with his upside as a defender, rebounder and shotblocker.

[DCZards]

I don't think we want the wall of old back. I think we want a more team minded wall. One that leads the league in assists but his attempts are down but it's shooting % are up taking better shots hitting 3 balls. And getting to the line. No hero ball wall I'd be happy with 15 ppg 10-11 assists a game and good rebounds and good team minded D.

I want a combo of the old Wall and the new Wall. The old Wall who is a player that can get to the rim and make teammates better with his outstanding passing and great court vision...and a new Wall who has an improved 3 pt shooter, plays consistent D and is smart about the shots he takes and doesn't take.

[nate33]

I don't think we want the wall of old back. I think we want a more team minded wall. One that leads the league in assists but his attempts are down but it's shooting % are up taking better shots hitting 3 balls. And getting to the line. No hero ball wall I'd be happy with 15 ppg 10-11 assists a game and good rebounds and good team minded D.

??? Please explain!

Btw, it's certainly possible that Wall returns at his highest level, that Hachimura actually becomes a good player, & that all of Mathews, Bonga & Wagner establish themselves as solid or better NBA players. The problem is only that we can't assume all that right now.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, I'm hoping for that too... a rich man's Satoransky, or a late-career Jason Kidd type of player. I really want him to focus on being a defensive terror.

I think he has the potential to be that guy, but I'm not sure he has the ego. It's just not his identity.

[nate33]

All this talk about a "decent core" going forward and no mention of AP? He may ultimately turn out to be one of Tommy's most important finds, especially with his upside as a defender, rebounder and shotblocker.

He's 24. I'm not sure if he's going to get all that much better than he is now.

It would help a great deal if he could shoot 3's off the pick and pop. But given that he's a 59% FT shooter, I don't think that's in the cards.

[DCZards]

All this talk about a "decent core" going forward and no mention of AP? He may ultimately turn out to be one of Tommy's most important finds, especially with his upside as a defender, rebounder and shotblocker.

He's 24. I'm not sure if he's going to get all that much better than he is now.

It would help a great deal if he could shoot 3's off the pick and pop. But given that he's a 59% FT shooter, I don't think that's in the cards.

I really don't have much hope of AP being able to shoot 3s...but I still think he can be a valuable piece off the bench. Every team needs a big man who can rebound and protect the paint. Yes, in an ideal world he'd also be able to knock down the 3. But don't really need his 3pt shooting. We have the scorers.

He's better than a 59% FT shooter...just check out his shooting form from the line. I expect AP to end up closer to a 70% FT shooter.

Edit to add: As far as getting much better after 24, tell that to Jordan McRae, tell that to Lou Williams. Coaching, hard work, experience/opportunity and, in AP's case, increased strength is what's most important...not age. In addition, it's not unusual for big men to be late bloomers.

[payitforward]

...Hachimura has been underwhelming so far. His best quality is that he's reportedly a freakishly hard worker and very smart. Hopefully, that means he'll get much better over time. I just wish he had better rebounding instincts.

As I try to understand Rui's numbers, they seem odd to me. Yes, he's a below average defensive & offensive rebounder. But, he makes up for most of that deficit with the fact that he turns it over less than average & fouls less than average. So, in a sense, if you just look at those numbers, he's about average.

But, he's below average in assists for a 4 -- indicating his defects as a passer, obviously, & in seeing the floor. & he basically never blocks a shot (about 1/8 as often as an average 4). That too might indicate that he doesn't see the floor well at this point?

The point is that even before looking at his scoring numbers, he's significantly below average overall. & he's also a well below average scorer so far. Now... he shoots Free Throws at a very high %, so maybe that's a positive indication for his future shooting. Or, lets just say that we hope it is.

I don't think Rui is going to be a complete bust, but I don't see any indications yet that he's going to be anything special.

[Dark Faze]

I don't think we want the wall of old back. I think we want a more team minded wall. One that leads the league in assists but his attempts are down but it's shooting % are up taking better shots hitting 3 balls. And getting to the line. No hero ball wall I'd be happy with 15 ppg 10-11 assists a game and good rebounds and good team minded D.

??? Please explain!

Btw, it's certainly possible that Wall returns at his highest level, that Hachimura actually becomes a good player, & that all of Mathews, Bonga & Wagner establish themselves as solid or better NBA players. The problem is only that we can't assume all that right now.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

We just need Wall to focus on rebounding, shooting 3's, and going to the line. If he can do that while allowing Brad to be the lead guard most possessions, he'll have good efficiency numbers even with a low 3pt% (33%).

I'd like to his assist numbers come way down and his rebounding numbers go way up. 20, 6, 6 on a 60% ts 57%+ TS would be terrific.

[dckingsfan]

All this talk about a "decent core" going forward and no mention of AP? He may ultimately turn out to be one of Tommy's most important finds, especially with his upside as a defender, rebounder and shotblocker.

Count me in on adding AP to Bryant/Wagner. As we can see - it is nice to have depth.

Edit: At a vet min salary. But like Nate says - there are lots of those players available.