Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder

[Ruzious]

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That's a real double-edged sword for Beal. On one hand, he wants to be consulted on major decisions. Otoh, some will think of that as betraying his teammate - Wall.

[tontoz]

Grain of salt. That guy is a complete idiot. Here is another silly take:

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For the record Rus was 3rd team All-NBA this past season.

[Ruzious]

Grain of salt. That guy is a complete idiot. Here is another silly take:

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For the record Rus was 3rd team All-NBA this past season.

Yeah, my buddy Al kinda left off some facts there - such as Westbrook being in 9 All-Star games, being name MVP for the 2016-17 season, being 5th in MVP voting in 17-18, and 10th in 18-19, leading the NBA in assists in 17-18 and 18-19, being 1st in the NBA in triple-doubles for 5 consecutive seasons... and saying Wall is just as explosive as Westbrook is absurd. He might be as fast and as quick, but as far as exploding to the basket - it's all Westbrook. I think Wall is going to be more of a below the rim player.

[Meliorus]

Keep drinking the kool-aid on Westbrook's stats and accolades. The guy has been a negative playoff performer past 3 years, aka he is making his team worse while on the floor. At some point you gotta go, were those 8.6 uncontested rebounds per game in 2017 really that meaningful? Are his points really that valuable when he's an all-time high usage guy?

Lots of Rockets fans over at ClutchFans are coping and excited with Wall too.

"Westbrook sucked. He was horrible.
I feel bad for Wizards fans. They WILL be better. But not anywhere near better enough and potentially at the detriment of Beal (should be his team but with Russ’ on court personality good luck with that) and some of the others.
I don’t mean to bash... but I’m just so amazed that in 2021 media analysts are still, somehow, in awe of Russ because he “plays hard”."

"Even the month and a half that he put up great stats, it came at the cost of reconstructing the entire team around his deficiencies(microball). The way basketball was played had to be changed, which also took away one of Harden's primary weapons, the lob threat."

"Go watch the lakers series . You can’t blame being dumb as a tree stump on the basketball court on COVID or quad injury. His offensive awareness and shot selection is awful . A guy who can’t shoot to with no shot selection equates to the mess we saw.
I’m sure he will Average 30-10-10 in Washington but it’ll be on empty calories again"

"Win Shares per 48
Regular Season : .098 (bad)
Playoffs : -.043 (one of/if not the worst playoff runs a max player has ever subjected the world to)
Net ratings all suffered with him on the floor. Net ratings all spiked when he was off the floor.
Still fooling people with his ability to inefficiently squander a giant amount of possessions into inflated box score stats. Because damnit he plays with passion and intensity."


"Russell Westbrook is an interesting player.
He is a monster in transition and finishing. A great rebounder as well. He is the best athlete to ever play point guard.
However he has flaws that just cannot be covered up. First he either can’t or won’t play off ball, which means he has to “be the man” to be impactful at all. The problem is he isn’t really very efficient at being the man so you don’t really want him doing anything except finishing and passing and won’t just do that... so it becomes a big problem.
Second he cannot shoot. He is a horrendous shooter so teams just sag off him which takes away some of his athletic advantage. Teams can pack the paint and goad him into taking bad shots.
Third he has poor basketball instincts. He literally just puts his head down and plays, he is as a result easier to game plan for than he should be.
Fourth, the way to get around his horrendous shooting and to get him room in the paint is to surround him with shooters. However surrounding him with shooters isn’t impossible..but because Westbrook is a TERRIBLE defender, he has to be surrounded by shooters that also are really good defenders.

Last year the Rockets... just to keep Westbrook on the court had to trade their traditional center, had to trade for a wing to switch and pick up Westbrook’s man, had to have 4 good shooters on the floor around Westbrook and ensure he was surrounded by good defenders.... and then his +\- was still worse than when it was just Harden.
For all his amazing athleticism, when it is all said and done... he isn’t that good and that is why no one wanted him in trade except a Wizards team that wants to trade a talent but injured player making the same money.

Westbrook is ultimately bad to anyone that isn’t just a casual fan."


Go debate the fans who watched Westbrook for a year, and tell me why it's going to get better at age 33 and beyond. Their forum is in pretty overwhelming consensus that this was a good trade for them. Everybody leaves Westbrook, disses him behind his back, and Beal will do the same. Just a shame that Beal did not know this in advance.

[tontoz]

"Even the month and a half that he put up great stats, it came at the cost of reconstructing the entire team around his deficiencies(microball). The way basketball was played had to be changed, which also took away one of Harden's primary weapons, the lob threat."

We don't have to change the team. We have a starting center who shoots 3s and a 2 who is used to playing off the ball.

Capella couldn't make a shot outside 3 feet.

[Meliorus]

"Even the month and a half that he put up great stats, it came at the cost of reconstructing the entire team around his deficiencies(microball). The way basketball was played had to be changed, which also took away one of Harden's primary weapons, the lob threat."

We don't have to change the team. We have a starting center who shoots 3s and a 2 who is used to playing off the ball.

Capella couldn't make a shot outside 3 feet.

Fourth, the way to get around his horrendous shooting and to get him room in the paint is to surround him with shooters. However surrounding him with shooters isn’t impossible..but because Westbrook is a TERRIBLE defender, he has to be surrounded by shooters that also are really good defenders.

Also Hachimura is not a good shooter and neither is Bonga. Our starting lineup has two other shooters, Beal and Bryant. As bad shooting or worse than Houston, and definitely much worse on defense.

[tontoz]

"Even the month and a half that he put up great stats, it came at the cost of reconstructing the entire team around his deficiencies(microball). The way basketball was played had to be changed, which also took away one of Harden's primary weapons, the lob threat."

We don't have to change the team. We have a starting center who shoots 3s and a 2 who is used to playing off the ball.

Capella couldn't make a shot outside 3 feet.

Fourth, the way to get around his horrendous shooting and to get him room in the paint is to surround him with shooters. However surrounding him with shooters isn’t impossible..but because Westbrook is a TERRIBLE defender, he has to be surrounded by shooters that also are really good defenders.

The Rockets gave up 2.4 fewer points per 100 possessions with Rus on the floor.

http://www.82games.com/1920/19HOU2.HTM#onoff

We also need to keep in mind that Rus played only 1 partial season in Houston. Let's not pretend like he was there for years.

[Indomitable]

Keep drinking the kool-aid on Westbrook's stats and accolades. The guy has been a negative playoff performer past 3 years, aka he is making his team worse while on the floor. At some point you gotta go, were those 8.6 uncontested rebounds per game in 2017 really that meaningful? Are his points really that valuable when he's an all-time high usage guy?

Lots of Rockets fans over at ClutchFans are coping and excited with Wall too.

"Westbrook sucked. He was horrible.
I feel bad for Wizards fans. They WILL be better. But not anywhere near better enough and potentially at the detriment of Beal (should be his team but with Russ’ on court personality good luck with that) and some of the others.
I don’t mean to bash... but I’m just so amazed that in 2021 media analysts are still, somehow, in awe of Russ because he “plays hard”."

"Even the month and a half that he put up great stats, it came at the cost of reconstructing the entire team around his deficiencies(microball). The way basketball was played had to be changed, which also took away one of Harden's primary weapons, the lob threat."

"Go watch the lakers series . You can’t blame being dumb as a tree stump on the basketball court on COVID or quad injury. His offensive awareness and shot selection is awful . A guy who can’t shoot to with no shot selection equates to the mess we saw.
I’m sure he will Average 30-10-10 in Washington but it’ll be on empty calories again"

"Win Shares per 48
Regular Season : .098 (bad)
Playoffs : -.043 (one of/if not the worst playoff runs a max player has ever subjected the world to)
Net ratings all suffered with him on the floor. Net ratings all spiked when he was off the floor.
Still fooling people with his ability to inefficiently squander a giant amount of possessions into inflated box score stats. Because damnit he plays with passion and intensity."


"Russell Westbrook is an interesting player.
He is a monster in transition and finishing. A great rebounder as well. He is the best athlete to ever play point guard.
However he has flaws that just cannot be covered up. First he either can’t or won’t play off ball, which means he has to “be the man” to be impactful at all. The problem is he isn’t really very efficient at being the man so you don’t really want him doing anything except finishing and passing and won’t just do that... so it becomes a big problem.
Second he cannot shoot. He is a horrendous shooter so teams just sag off him which takes away some of his athletic advantage. Teams can pack the paint and goad him into taking bad shots.
Third he has poor basketball instincts. He literally just puts his head down and plays, he is as a result easier to game plan for than he should be.
Fourth, the way to get around his horrendous shooting and to get him room in the paint is to surround him with shooters. However surrounding him with shooters isn’t impossible..but because Westbrook is a TERRIBLE defender, he has to be surrounded by shooters that also are really good defenders.

Last year the Rockets... just to keep Westbrook on the court had to trade their traditional center, had to trade for a wing to switch and pick up Westbrook’s man, had to have 4 good shooters on the floor around Westbrook and ensure he was surrounded by good defenders.... and then his +\- was still worse than when it was just Harden.
For all his amazing athleticism, when it is all said and done... he isn’t that good and that is why no one wanted him in trade except a Wizards team that wants to trade a talent but injured player making the same money.

Westbrook is ultimately bad to anyone that isn’t just a casual fan."


Go debate the fans who watched Westbrook for a year, and tell me why it's going to get better at age 33 and beyond. Their forum is in pretty overwhelming consensus that this was a good trade for them. Everybody leaves Westbrook, disses him behind his back, and Beal will do the same. Just a shame that Beal did not know this in advance.

Most clutchfans really are clueless.

[closg00]

Seems like they have the right idea, wishing them best out West.

Rockets adjust to revamped roster as Cousins, Wall reunite

In addition to the trade for Wall, the organization made other moves to improve the supporting cast around Harden such as the free-agent additions of versatile, athletic big men Christian Wood and DeMarcus Cousins, while providing more optionality in terms of playing style for a Houston team that last season committed exclusively to playing small ball.

“I wanted to have multiple ways to play, and those guys allow me to do so,” Silas said. “To have John Wall pushing the ball up the floor and either passing ahead to a running wing or keeping it and getting the ball into the paint and making all of the great passes that he’s made over his career, that is accentuated by playing the way that I want to play: five-out with space and allowing guys to get into the paint and do their thing.

“To have Christian Wood trail the play and be able to roll and pop and play in a very similar way that I had [Kristaps] Porzingis playing when I was offensive coordinator in Dallas, I see that as a positive in another kind of way and option for us to play

https://www.nba.com/news/rockets-adjust-to-revamped-roster-as-cousins-wall-reunite

[Ruzious]

Seems like they have the right idea, wishing them best out West.

Rockets adjust to revamped roster as Cousins, Wall reunite

In addition to the trade for Wall, the organization made other moves to improve the supporting cast around Harden such as the free-agent additions of versatile, athletic big men Christian Wood and DeMarcus Cousins, while providing more optionality in terms of playing style for a Houston team that last season committed exclusively to playing small ball.

“I wanted to have multiple ways to play, and those guys allow me to do so,” Silas said. “To have John Wall pushing the ball up the floor and either passing ahead to a running wing or keeping it and getting the ball into the paint and making all of the great passes that he’s made over his career, that is accentuated by playing the way that I want to play: five-out with space and allowing guys to get into the paint and do their thing.

“To have Christian Wood trail the play and be able to roll and pop and play in a very similar way that I had [Kristaps] Porzingis playing when I was offensive coordinator in Dallas, I see that as a positive in another kind of way and option for us to play

https://www.nba.com/news/rockets-adjust-to-revamped-roster-as-cousins-wall-reunite

But when he had Porzingis, was he particularly effective? And while I'm sure Cousins can still put up numbers, is he really athletic anymore? I think Houston's going to have even more defensive problems than the Wiz.

[TGW]

Al Galdi is 100% right.

[NatP4]

95% of the clutch fans have not clue what they are talking about. A good portion of them think Wall is an elite lockdown on ball defender and a good off ball player.

[Wizardspride]

Al Galdi is 100% right.

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[Wizardspride]

Tommy's trying to take the heat off Beal to some extent

[payitforward]

Has anyone brought up that Westbrook’s tenacity and strength for rebounding may actually be a huge plus for the Wizards as while considering our two starting bigs (Bryant/Rui) often times struggle in that area?

It's a great point -- except that Bryant is a very good rebounder. But, you are right that Rui wasn't -- as a rookie. Let's see if he gets better.

Still a great point....

Nit picking but I would (opinion) call Bryant a good not very good rebounder for his position....

Fair enough. On the last two years, Bryant is a 15% better rebounder than average for a C. So, let's call him a "pretty good" rebounder & leave it at that.

...And to add to MDStar, Brown and Westbrook are very good defensive rebounders for their positions. That might (or will have to) make up for Rui, Bertans and Bonga's weakness.

I read this kind of thing all the time, & it drives me nuts...

Sure, if you want to forego the advantage Brown & Westbrook's rebounding brings to the team, you can think of them as making up for someone else's weakness.

Only, that's not what they're doing, is it?

In Bertans' case, he has one exceptional talent. *That* makes up for his weak rebounding to some degree, so that overall he's a pretty good player. Brown is an exceptionally good rebounder for a 3, & in his case that makes up for his sub-par shooting to some degree.

Rui is a different story. As a rookie, he was a sub-par rebounder, scorer, &... just about everything -- except he didn't commit a lot of fouls, & he turned the ball over less than average. I'm sure we all expect him to improve on all fronts, including rebounding.

Btw, why would you call Bonga a weak rebounder? He was a slightly above average defensive rebounder for a wing last season -- & a substantially above average offensive rebounder. &, though he did play 120 minutes in '18-19, I think of him as a rookie last year.

[payitforward]

Nit picking but I would (opinion) call Bryant a good not very good rebounder for his position. And to add to MDStar, Brown and Westbrook are very good defensive rebounders for their positions. That might (or will have to) make up for Rui, Bertans and Bonga's weakness.

Isn’t Bonga also a good rebounder? Something like 6.5 per 36?

His defensive rebounding percentage is in the 13s - good for a guard. Meh for a SF and poor for a PF.

& lousy for a Center. But he's not a Center. Or a PF. Or, for that matter, a guard.

Bonga is a 3. His defensive rebounding % was 13.8% this season. His offensive rebounding % was 6%. His total RB% was 10.8%

Isn't that pretty good for a 3? I have no idea how one would find out the average...?

[NatP4]

Tommy's trying to take the heat off Beal to some extent

Beal in his media availability, said that he stays out of GM stuff and lets Shep do his job.

[payitforward]

How is rebounding % calculated, btw? I suppose it's a % of rebounding opportunities, but I have no idea how those are calculated.

Maybe it's just # of a guy's boards divided by how many rebounds were collected by his team overall while he was on the floor? No... that can't be.... Maybe by both teams while he was on the floor? ...

[FAH1223]

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Sounds and looks like he didn't want to make this trade. Pressure from above i.e. Ted

[FAH1223]

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