The Official Yi Jianlian Shrine

[montestewart]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why exactly is the term "Chinaman" an ethnic slur? Is it really any different than calling a Canadian a "Canuck", or an Australian an "Aussie"? Is associating a person with their land of origin now considered an insult?

Calling someone Chinese person a Chinaman is like calling a Canadian a "Canadaman" or an Australian an "Australiaman". Why do even need to ask. It is recognized as racial slur, so don't say it, it's simple as that. The reasons don't matter. Belittling people's objections to recognized racial slur just shows that you are racist, that's all.

The term "Chinaman" is associated with white mob violence. People associate lynching with African-Americans during the Reconstruction era but the Chinese were another group that also faced such violence. It wasn't uncommon for innocent Chinese workers to be lynched by white mobs during the 1800's in Western US and even several Chinatowns were burned.

Some examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_riot_of_1886
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issaquah_riot_of_1885

Let's not forget the fact that the Chinese were the only group to be banned from entering the United States (see Chinese Exclusion Act).

This extended discussion appropriately includes people expressing anger and disappointment, and I don't dismiss those expressions, but I appreciate posts like the one above. Information is not the enemy, and sometimes all it takes is a little information (a few links, whatever) to help illustrate what's behind a reaction. I don't use the term "Chinaman" because I know some of the history and the negative connotations of the term, but if you don't know, if you never heard or read a discussion about it, that term could sound somewhat similar to "Frenchman" or "Englishman," neither of which are usually used as epithets. Maybe this belongs in the proposed racism thread, but wherever it is, this is a very interesting and (I believe) important discussion.

[nate33]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why exactly is the term "Chinaman" an ethnic slur? Is it really any different than calling a Canadian a "Canuck", or an Australian an "Aussie"? Is associating a person with their land of origin now considered an insult?

Calling someone Chinese person a Chinaman is like calling a Canadian a "Canadaman" or an Australian an "Australiaman". Why do even need to ask. It is recognized as racial slur, so don't say it, it's simple as that. The reasons don't matter. Belittling people's objections to recognized racial slur just shows that you are racist, that's all.

I continue to be amazed at some of the comments on this thread. When did I belittle anybody's objection? I asked an honest question. Now I'm a racist? Do you not see that you are diminishing the power of the term by throwing it around so haphazardly? Go back and look at my posts. When did I say anything that was knowingly racist?

Call me ignorant if you must. It is true that I was unaware of some of the historical connotations of the word. Thank you Hoopalotta, GreatWall and CarMalone for taking the time to educate me on the issue. I repeat my initial apology (offered immediately after seeing that my initial remark was seen by some as insulting). I did not mean to offend.

And to Gang of Four, hebrewhammer, and YiOF: go eff yourself.

[J1Kwon]

Now about Yi:
Yi's rebounding has always been like the rest of his game: he can excel at it, but just can't be consistent.

He has had quite a few big rebounding games in his career.
Unfortunately, he was very prone to following up those games with 3 reb games and 5 reb games.

[J1Kwon]

I just checked nba.com and Yi's career high in OFFENSIVE rebounds is 12
0_0

[montestewart]

Now about Yi:
Yi's rebounding has always been like the rest of his game: he can excel at it, but just can't be consistent.

He has had quite a few big rebounding games in his career.
Unfortunately, he was very prone to following up those games with 3 reb games and 5 reb games.

As one that was far from thrilled over the acquisition, I have to say that he's looked pretty good, averaging over 10 rb per 36, with only one really bad outing. Sure he might fall away from that production and not be as consistent, but he could do that and still be more than I expected. I'm pretty happy with what I've seen.

[Illuminaire]

Thanks for the forewarning, J1kwon.

At least no other Wizards suffer from an inability to consistently apply their talents on the court.

[JonathanJoseph]

I don't know what happened to Yi in Milwaukee and NJ, but I know he looks like a player in Washington. I realize it's a small sample set, but when you add it to his performance in the World Championships, dude clearly looks like a player on the rise. Score, Ernie Grunfeld.

[pennyliu123]

And to Gang of Four, hebrewhammer, and YiOF: go eff yourself.

Hi, I think the argument about "racist" is really pointless. "Chinamen" may be an impolite word, but I personally don't think it's a very serious problem, unless one kept saying the word towards Chinese. In China Guang Dong and Hong Kong, almost every native person call the foreigns as "Guai lou", the word is not respectful either.

If I'm not wrong, nate33 only said the word once, I think that can be forgiven. Maybe he just forgot there are many Chinese who will view his thread, or he just doesn't know the word is how impolite. Chinese do know the word mainly because a US reporter used this word in a TV show, and he was blamed and apologized for his "racial words". I must admit, before I read this news, I didn't know the word is very impolite either, I only know the word is not right, if I use it in an English test, my score will be deducted

And I want to say something to my Chinese fellows:

A word won't change anything. We are proud of being a Chinese, the reason is not there's nobody called us "Chinamen". We all know, most of our "foreigners" don't understand China or Chinese very well, and some of them don't like us either. We should let them know, Chinese are good. Calling a one who use an impolite word (once) as "racist", and keeping arguing off the topic (Yi Jianlian) won't do us any help. And sure, if we really find a racist who keeps insult China or Chinese, we will let them know how many Chinese people are there

------------back to the topic-----------------

I'm very happy to see Yi grab more rebounds now. I hope that he will get a reasonable contract after this season.

[YiOF]

I didn't intent to get off on the wrong foot with wizard board regulars. Racism is a serious and sensitive issue, and probably belongs in another thread. I'd rather keep this thread focus on Yi, after all it is his shrine.

Before anyone jump on Yi's bandwagon, I'd like to add a few of his flaws that I've seen over the years into everyone's consideration. I have seen Yi put up strong performances in preseason and against lesser opponent before. I was teased then, so until I see him doing it consistently against better competition in meaningful games, I will hold my judgment.

Yi has some major weakness on both offense and defense.

Offensively, Yi plays shorter than his size and have trouble finishing around the basket, which is why he is allergic to play in the post. Maybe its because his lack of strength, the slightest bump from the opponent often causes Yi to fumble the ball. Therefore, he has to keep both of his hands on the ball while attempting a lay up or dunk. He would have less elevation and unable to use his body to protect the ball while doing so, he gets a lot of his shot blocked by shorter players. Yi has one of the lowest field goal % around the basket for players 6'9" or above for that reason. While Yi has a good mid range shot, his drives to the basket are often limited by his lack of ability to finish there.

Defensively, Yi can be a liability because his lack of ability to guard the post. While Yi has decent leaping abilities and length, he does not use it well to contest shots. A stronger opponent can just push Yi around and knock him off balance and shoot a little hook shot over him. I think this happened a few times when he was trying to guard Josh Powell last night. Yi also has really bad foot work while defending the post, therefore he has extremely bad timing on his jumps. Against quicker power forwards, they were able to just make a move around him and Yi would be off balance and late to contest shots. Spurs forward Matt Bonner were able to pull off the slowest post moves and score on Yi last season, and if you watched any of the Nets games last year, you know what an elite power forwards can do to Yi. Overall, his defensive instinct is pretty bad.

Yi gets discouraged easily. What pisses me most about it is that when he gets discouraged, he stops hustling and disappears from games. Whenever a physical player is defending Yi, he often just resort to becoming a pure jump shooter. When he gets abused by an elite power forward on the defensive end, he would often stop running the floor too.

This is just my thoughts on Yi's game. I am a fan and hope he improves in those areas.

[Hoopalotta]

Well, things have come together nicely now.

Yi Shrine forever!

Obviously many here have a much better feel for Yi's game and his reported 'teasing' in the past, but it seems to me that Yi's got a place in the NBA long term as something like a third big. I mean, even Johan Petro just got $12 million guaranteed, so I don't see why Yi can't cement his position.

So far, I like Yi's defense pretty well off the ball as a help defender showing on screens combined with his general awareness (I could be wrong, be his reads seem decent so far). His overall mobility and length is impressive too. I'll have to watch for the post work, but I could see how that would be a problem. Helping Yi's case for minutes this year is that we don't have anyone really competing with him who's better a post defender - I say that taking for granted that Blatche gets minutes and Yi's competing with the rest (we'll run plenty of twin PF sets too, just by default). I'll wait and see about the rebounding before getting excited, but obviously this is a good start.

Offensively, Yi's first step stands out as impressive, but it generally takes a while for us fans to get down on a player's offense and I just started watching him with any real focus. System-wise, this could be a good fit if the discipline is right as far as everyone looking for the open man (which, Flip Saunders' offenses are noted for). I'd expect a decrease in Yi (and most everyone's) base numbers, but there's room for a boost in efficiency if the team's shot discipline comes together.

I see a pretty tight three man rotation up front with the fourth big being more likely a 8-10 minute spot player. It's certainly not inconceivable that Yi could start, but I'd think either way he's looking at something in the 24-28 minute range (McGee started to look pretty gassed last night as the game went on too, so his asthma issue still clouds that).

Yi might well just play one year in D.C. with us plugging in Booker and Seraphin thereafter as cheap backup bigs in a low stakes lockout year (we might well have a max salary slot in the summer of 2012 too, so that's likely 'a' or even 'the' deciding factor in personnel decisions). But, there should be a reasonable market for Yi when he hits free agency if he can benefit from the spread offense we hope to implement.

I don't want to sound overly up on this one, but the early results on this move are definitely better than I had expected.

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah, he has to race instead of run, like he said in the article. When he puts out 100% effort he is very good, when he doesn't he stinks. I think the problem is occasionally you run into someone else who is a little bit better and also giving 100% effort, I think that's really where mentally you have to take the challenge and keep pushing instead of getting down on yourself.

I used to have a friend who would beat the crap out of me in racketball and tell me not to get intimidated. It pissed me off because I considered him kind of a weenie and the idea of being intimidated by him is pretty insulting, but it's a valid point. You have to reach a balance between caring hard about the result and taking pride in giving effort even when the results aren't coming.

[Durant Durant]

Yeah, he has to race instead of run, like he said in the article. When he puts out 100% effort he is very good, when he doesn't he stinks. I think the problem is occasionally you run into someone else who is a little bit better and also giving 100% effort, I think that's really where mentally you have to take the challenge and keep pushing instead of getting down on yourself.

I used to have a friend who would beat the crap out of me in racketball and tell me not to get intimidated. It pissed me off because I considered him kind of a weenie and the idea of being intimidated by him is pretty insulting, but it's a valid point. You have to reach a balance between caring hard about the result and taking pride in giving effort even when the results aren't coming.

so does 99.9% of the league. i dunno who the .1 is? Durant?

[NOODLESTYLE]

Nate -- it's not the word itself that's offensive, as opposed to the connotation and use over the years. "Chinaman" has been used as a derogatory term for "a man from China" so to speak, so the word has developed a negative connotation.

For example, calling an African person from the bush a "bushman" would probably be offensive to that person. It's all about the historical use of the word, not it's literal use.

Thanks for the response, but it still doesn't quite explain it for me. I don't think the term "bushman" is analogous because being "from the bush" implies that you are some kind of primitive savage, which is clearly insulting.

It seems like the only explanation is that because there was once a Western bias against individuals from China (as Hoopalotta points out with his Opium Wars/Yellow Peril history lesson), that we are all therefore racists whenever we point out that a person in fact comes from the geographical region known as China. But wouldn't that make the term "African American" derogatory? Also, would I be derogatory if I call someone "Chinese"?

I think we need to look at the context and the nation as well. Terms that are outdated or shouldn't be used to call a person of Chinese descent in the U.S. include "Chinaman" and "Oriental". I do understand what you're trying to say though, but when using certain words I think we need to look at the history of that nation and culture in particular. If I was in the U.K, it wouldn't necessarily be offensive to describe Chinese as Orientals because "Asian" is usually used in reference towards South Asians.

But let me give another example...the word "NEGRO"....which in Spanish simply translates to the color "Black" right? but due to the historical prejudice and discrimination in the the history of the U.S...calling a "African-American" person a Negro would probably not be appropriate and understood as offensive.

Would you agree? or would it be ok to describe people like John Wall, Gilbert Arenas, etc as those "Negro" players?

[pennyliu123]

Nate -- it's not the word itself that's offensive, as opposed to the connotation and use over the years. "Chinaman" has been used as a derogatory term for "a man from China" so to speak, so the word has developed a negative connotation.

For example, calling an African person from the bush a "bushman" would probably be offensive to that person. It's all about the historical use of the word, not it's literal use.

Thanks for the response, but it still doesn't quite explain it for me. I don't think the term "bushman" is analogous because being "from the bush" implies that you are some kind of primitive savage, which is clearly insulting.

It seems like the only explanation is that because there was once a Western bias against individuals from China (as Hoopalotta points out with his Opium Wars/Yellow Peril history lesson), that we are all therefore racists whenever we point out that a person in fact comes from the geographical region known as China. But wouldn't that make the term "African American" derogatory? Also, would I be derogatory if I call someone "Chinese"?

I think we need to look at the context and the nation as well. Terms that are outdated or shouldn't be used to call a person of Chinese descent in the U.S. include "Chinaman" and "Oriental". I do understand what you're trying to say though, but when using certain words I think we need to look at the history of that nation and culture in particular. If I was in the U.K, it wouldn't necessarily be offensive to describe Chinese as Orientals because "Asian" is usually used in reference towards South Asians.

But let me give another example...the word "NEGRO"....which in Spanish simply translates to the color "Black" right? but due to the historical prejudice and discrimination in the the history of the U.S...calling a "African-American" person a Negro would probably not be appropriate and understood as offensive.

Would you agree? or would it be ok to describe people like John Wall, Gilbert Arenas, etc as those "Negro" players?

I think we'd better discuss this problem somewhere else... as it's off the topic?

[sashae]

Nice article from Mike Prada on Yi. I'm encouraged... he's really shown more this preseason than he showed pretty much ever for the Nets. Be nice if we actually ended up with a real defensive banger instead of a soft outside guy...

[verbal8]

Nice article from Mike Prada on Yi. I'm encouraged... he's really shown more this preseason than he showed pretty much ever for the Nets. Be nice if we actually ended up with a real defensive banger instead of a soft outside guy...

It sounds like the Wizards and Yi are doing a lot of things to facilitate his development. I also like that Yi seems to be focused forward rather than on the past.

[301baller]

I went to the wizards practice saturday and i gotta eat crow. i thought Yi was garbage but after seeing him play up close, i came away impressed. he's a better rebounder than i expected and his jumper is automatic.

by the same token i was VERY disappointed with McGee. I expected to see some progress in his offensive game. If you pass him the ball on the post he's got no idea what to do with it. All his points came on put backs and alley-oops from John Wall.

[Dat2U]

Meh, Yi has to show and prove over the course of time. One practice or a handful of non-NBA regular season games isn't going to do it for me.

Yi might be more offensively skilled than McGee but McGee is the better player hands down IMO.

[YiOF]

It seems that it is a pattern with Yi that he shows some potential by putting a string of good games together only to disappear for a long stretch after. It had happened in Milwaukee and NJ, and it is some what the case this preseason with the Wizards, he had a few good games starting out only to become somewhat invisible after he was put in the starting line up. It is a good thing that the expectation for him isn't very high here.

I still think Yi's biggest problem, besides some of the defensive deficiencies, is his inability to finish around the rim. He would often make a move to get by his initial defender only to get blocked at the rim by a help defender, more often than not after he gets blocked, he starts to settle of jump shots instead of being active and attacking the rim.

So my question is this, what do the wizards fans think of Yi now after seeing him in preseason action? What kinda production do you expect Yi to put up this season, how many minutes do you expect him to play per game?

[teamny1]

I went to the wizards practice saturday and i gotta eat crow. i thought Yi was garbage but after seeing him play up close, i came away impressed. he's a better rebounder than i expected and his jumper is automatic.

by the same token i was VERY disappointed with McGee. I expected to see some progress in his offensive game. If you pass him the ball on the post he's got no idea what to do with it. All his points came on put backs and alley-oops from John Wall.

Yi is probably a fantastic practice player. Runs like a gazelle, leaps high, can shoot. He's much worse in games though, like his bball IQ is really low.