Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[jivelikenice]

Perhaps, but it's just too much. I couldn't pull the trigger that includes both McGee and the 6th pick - much less throwing in the 18th pick as if it's a small order of fries added to a McDonalds value meal. Blatche with 6 and 18? Yes, I could agree to that.

Even with Andray included, thats too much.

I could agree to Blatche + 6 + 18. Blatche has some talent but has too many negatives:
1. Fitness
2. BBall IQ
3. Soft play
4. Athleticism
5. Contract

Frankly he is inconstent in all areas and you can't count on him for anything if you aspire to be a legit contender. Ifwe can get out of his contract abnd replace him with the top talent in this draft at the expense of 6 + 18 then just do it....We can always buy a mid to late 1st rounder and this would free up some dollars that will need to go towards McGee and/or Young....

[TGW]

Meh, in Kwame's third season, he showed a lot of improvement in the 2nd half of the season, and we were falling all over ourselves singing his praises - moreso than Javale, frankly. He had multiple games where he out-played Jermaine O'Neil in his prime and even Tim Dunkan. His 4th year was a complete disaster - starting with a foot injury that he didn't rehab adequately. Hmmm... deja vu with Blatche.

Ruzious -- that's only because Kwame was so useless for the first 2 years of his career, we were just happy that he showed anything positive at all.

OTOH, Javale has always been criticized, despite showing improvement every season.

I just think the kid gets a bad rap. He gets criticized for everything he does wrong, but he never gets credit. He got completely manhandled for that triple double thing, but no one gave him credit for even reaching a feet that only maybe 2-3 players could do in the league (getting a triple double with blocks).

I would think with a history that this franchise has, it would latch on to any young talented players, despite their obvious on-court shortcomings.

[RT31]

Basketball IQ comes with age and experience. Physical freakishness does not. Javale will learn the nuances of playing good positional defense as he matures. Hell, even Kwame Brown has learned how to make proper defensive rotations and he was widely considered to be an idiot who would never get it.

It just took Kwame 10 years to figure it out and become a serviceable backup. I'm willing to wait on McGee, but if you told me we could trade Kwame Brown for a starting caliber Forward, I'd do it in a hearbeat...oh wait, we did that...I think most view the KFB for Caron trade as a success.

McGee for DWilliams sounds the same to me.

Except Kwame never put together as good a year as McGee did last season. Kwame didn't come close to leading the league in anything except boneheaded plays. Kwame never led the team in +/-, rebounding, or blocks. Kwame never showed half of the talent Javale did, and honestly if this team ever traded Javale for Caron Butler, or a similar talent, I would be pissed.

Really? I'm not talking about today's Caron Bulter, but at the time of the trade, I think he was 3-4 years in. Caron avg'd 17ppg, 19ppg, 20ppg, 20ppg in the years after the trade. You wouldn't trade today's Javale McGee for Caron Butler of that time period? We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Rafael122]

Ftr, I don't think Ted would agree on a trade of so much for 1 pick. His philosophy seems to go the opposite way. Accumulate as many picks as possible - because in volume, more of them will pan out.

Yeah, but in a draft like this, I'd rather have a shot at one star player rather than 3 "quality" guys.With all the moves these teams are making, Miami, New York, you need at least two stars on your team or two really good players and surround them with talent...Wall/Williams is a good start, Young/Crawford are nice pieces as well.

[miller31time]

If the only thing that stops us from trading JaVale McGee for Derrick Williams is Jan Vesely and Tobias Harris being included in the deal, then I'm not sure why we wouldn't pull the trigger.

It sounds like a lot to give up when you put it in terms of the actual picks we'd be giving up, but table scraps when you actually look at the caliber of players we'd be getting with said picks.

[queridiculo]

miller, how do you suppose we fill the gaping hole at center if we include the 6th pick?

[miller31time]

miller, how do you suppose we fill the gaping hole at center if we include the 6th pick?

Does it really matter? We're going to suck next season anyway. Move Blatche to center and pick up a vet who can come in and play spot-minutes. Then, once we have some time to form chemistry, grow, and improve, look for a legitimate center.

[Rafael122]

miller, how do you suppose we fill the gaping hole at center if we include the 6th pick?

Sign one, or try and get a center with the 18th pick, no biggie. You don't need a 7 footer at center, it'd be nice, for rebounding purposes but if you're a 69'' forward with a freakish wingspan/standing reach, we'll be fine.

[queridiculo]

I personally don't see enough upside in Williams to warrant McGee and the 6th. He's a tweener without a true position and is an average defensive player at best.

Straight up, I'd think long and hard about it, but to me the 6th is a deal breaker.

Bigs with McGee's upside come around very rarely, and if you include him in a deal you had better hit homerun with your future selection.

[Ruzious]

If the only thing that stops us from trading JaVale McGee for Derrick Williams is Jan Vesely and Tobias Harris being included in the deal, then I'm not sure why we wouldn't pull the trigger.

It sounds like a lot to give up when you put it in terms of the actual picks we'd be giving up, but table scraps when you actually look at the caliber of players we'd be getting with said picks.

That's good perspective, but I'd like to think they'd do a lot better than Vesely with the 6th pick (even if I'm being delusional).

[fishercob]

Based on what I know and believe today, I wouldn't trade McGee for Derrick Williams. I also concede that I don't know what those inside the organization do; ultimately they're in a much better position to project what kind of player McGee will end up than I am (and if any of you don't feel the same way about yourselves, you're idiots btw).

More to the point, I think this is all just noise...."blather" if you will. Someone in the FO is giving Chad Ford good stuff he can print and the dude needs copy this time of year. People aren't going to stop reading him if he's wrong a lot of the time.

[popper]

What about Anthony Weiner with our 18th. He's definately got ups and make no bones about it, he could easily become the third leg of our rebuild.

Edit: Forgot to mention, he won't go soft on us like Blatch. He plays hard all the time.

[Jay81]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... itter_feed

this is Derrick Willliams is by far and away the best player in the draft and worth the move to trade to get him

[mhd]

I'd definetly trade Javale for the #2 pick. Blatche can certainly play center (I think thet is his more ideal position anyways). We'd be much better offensively without McGee's idiotic post moves and low bball iq. Plus. we'd save a ton as we'd get a rookie contract instead of potentially extending McGee. I'd do the deal in a nanosecond.

[closg00]

I'd definetly trade Javale for the #2 pick. Blatche can certainly play center (I think thet is his more ideal position anyways). We'd be much better offensively without McGee's idiotic post moves and low bball iq. Plus. we'd save a ton as we'd get a rookie contract instead of potentially extending McGee. I'd do the deal in a nanosecond.

JaVale for #2 is worthy of consideration, JaVale + our 6th & 18th pick would be insane. Fortunately Ted is there to protect Ernie from himself.....time will tell if this is smoke.

[doclinkin]

Yeah I call bullskittles on this. This is Minny leaking false info trying to drive up the price of their pick. 'Cause you know it didn't come from Ernie. I'd believe those rumors on the day I see Ernie posting his pic on facebook holding up his Black Card with the number visible and a mouthful of gold fronts that spell 'Papa Smurf'. Nobody would ever be that stupid.

[TGW]

Can we breakdown Williams' game for just a second, because I think people are falling in love with the thought of having him and not really the player.

WizD has a point...Derrick Williams is Jamison with somewhat better defensive instincts. He's not going to be a superstar in this league solely due to the fact he's a tweener, and not a good tweener. He's going to be Jamison like in the sense that he's too slow to cover small forwards and too short to cover power forwards. The guy is 6'8, 250 right now. He's gained alot of bad weight since the end of the college basketball season. Quite frankly, I think Marcus Morris can be the same type of player DWill is -- except MM will come without sacrificing any assets. Hell, you can get MM and and extra pick from lets say, the Bobcats, and I think that would be a MUCH more effective use of our assets.

And for anyone who thinks DWill is that much better of a player than MM -- there's measurements are similar.

They both are the same height, although MM is a solid 230, and Williams is a jiggly 250. DWill has a better wingspan and standing reach (slightly) but both faired the same in the no step vert. DWill pressed more reps, but was slower in the sprint. I honestly don't see why the tweener label has been attached to MM yet no one knows what DWill's actual position is.

[tontoz]

Ftr, I don't think Ted would agree on a trade of so much for 1 pick. His philosophy seems to go the opposite way. Accumulate as many picks as possible - because in volume, more of them will pan out.

Yeah, but in a draft like this, I'd rather have a shot at one star player rather than 3 "quality" guys.With all the moves these teams are making, Miami, New York, you need at least two stars on your team or two really good players and surround them with talent...Wall/Williams is a good start, Young/Crawford are nice pieces as well.

That is the way i see it. One star player > 3 role players. A Wall/DWill combo would look better to a high profile free agent than Wall/McGee/Leonard/whatever.

DWill shot 60% from the field and 57% from 3. That is just ridiculous.

[Dark Faze]

I think the 'too slow' to cover smalls argument is a bit weak. First of all Jamison in his day was athletic enough to cover most 3's...he just wasn't that great of a defender and with Caron on the team he was pretty much forced to play the 4. He was definitely a tweener but he sucked at the 3 because he couldn't create a jumpshot or hit one for ****...something that Williams excels at.

Personally I really like Williams.

Javale for the #2 straight up I'd do in an instant...I'd include the 2nd round pick with that at the very most...certainly not the 18th or 6th.

[hands11]

Tristan Thompson, would a good comparison be a slightly less athletic Josh Smith?

I think a bigger and smarter Tyrus Thomas is a better comparison

He measured in at all of one quarter inch taller and 10 lbs heavier in the DX measurements database - and Thomas is/was the better athlete of the 2.

Can't go with that. A Tristan ? Come on. Sounds like a chicks name.