Political Roundtable Part XV

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah I've seen a lot of discussion about whether we really should be celebrating Christopher Columbus.

He brought over a lot of European diseases that wiped out 95% of the native American population. Then the settlers arrived and more or less finished them off. Pretty horrible stuff, I think you could make a good argument to take down the Christopher Columbus statue.

But to go "nyah nyah if you take down my precious confederate statues I'll take down Christopher Columbus, so there!" is pretty childish. I don't know if that's what's going on - isn't De Blasio a democrat? I think he's just trying to be fair.

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

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I would not be at all surprised if this turned out to all be fake.

Sadly, I also would not be terribly surprised if it turned out to be true.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

I would not be at all surprised if this turned out to all be fake.

Sadly, I also would not be terribly surprised if it turned out to be true.

Agreed.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I would not be at all surprised if this turned out to all be fake.

Sadly, I also would not be terribly surprised if it turned out to be true.

The cripplingly depressing part of all this is that, if it actually does turn out to be true, I suspect it would stand a higher likely degree of having Trump out on an island by himself than anything else he could possibly do, like start a war with North Korea, kill someone, be involved in a massive corruption scandal, collude with Russians, collude with Nazis, or anything else of the sort. It might not sink him, and I'm not saying any of those things I've listed are true or not, but it's the reality of politics that sex scandals carry far more weight than anything else. Well, that and admitting you're wrong about something, even if you are. If there's anything about the world that has me pessimistic about humanity's future, it's that reality. In fact, it's been pretty clear from the beginning that Trump and his team understood this reality, too, because they've been waaaay out in front of it with those stories of his womanizing early on and all the fake news stuff. At least now he can try to brush it off as just Trump being Trump, or fake news, or both, which I'm sure he would, were it actually to be true, which I wouldn't be surprised either way, honestly.

[gtn130]

As well, I don't think he's said black people are "genetically inferior;" he has certainly claimed that black people are less intelligent than white people -- a silly idea, to be sure, but it's not the same as claiming black people are "inferior" in a generalized sense.

I remember he specifically shared this article. The 'funny' thing about that article is the writer had to follow up with an apology because he accidentally used source material from white nationalists lol.

Not gonna bother looking up old posts, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't his first or last foray into the topic of race and intelligence.

LOL. Saletan didn't retract his article or state it was inaccurate. He merely said that he failed to highlight that one of his sources was Philippe Rushton. Rushton does believe that there are differences in races, but that doesn't make his research invalid.

Nate, you're talking about the absolute most reputable source you've ever referenced on this subject and it required a 'regrets' followup because the author mistakenly cited a white nationalist.

And yet you remain fervently committed to your views on race.

[gtn130]

I'm tired, I'm sore and the smell of mold seems permanently seared into my nostrils. But mostly I'm sad.

Rows and rows of houses with sheet rock, insulation, furniture, flooring and pictures line the streets blocking the sidewalks.

I am staying at a B&B and the owner is an avid runner. She is a node - she knows everyone and is an organizer. At breakfast she assigns different runners (their club is ~ 100) to various houses. I eat breakfast and then head out.

Today's house had their watermark at 4 feet. You identify streets by their watermark. Our group of 10 goes in and pulls sheet rock and insulation out to 4 feet. The smell is more difficult to sustain than the work. We finished the first house in under 3 hours.

I am sent down to talk to a man down the street (I don't know why I am selected - I guess I am older) to see if he needs help. His wife has PLS (like ALS) and this is his third water event. They group is worried he won't take help. I ask how it is going - I didn't know how to read the blank stare. Thirty seconds of silence - I ask him if he would like some help. He nods and maybe a tear or two, the group descends on his house.

I stay with him we talk about strategies of where to put what he has saved. We decide to box everything (yep, we brought lots of boxes) and stage them in the garage. The remaining seven begin the process of pulling out the destroyed furniture, ripping out the dry wall and bring anything that is salvaged on the driveway. I moved everything out of the garage then swept the floors. He has a fish tank that has filled with water. He laughed. And he laughed again when he told me that the flooring I was throwing away for him had a life-time guarantee. He tells me stories, asks where I am from, tells me about other water events while we are doing the cleaning - it seems to distract him.

A pair of kids show up outside the house. They ask if we would like some food and water. They give us sack lunches and water bottles. I tell the kid to thank his parents for their generosity. His brother was clearly insulted - "my brother bought the bread, peanut butter, jelly and all the water bottles with his own money." The man I was helping saves me, "then you are truly Texans, don’t worry - he isn't from here". A smile sweeps their faces.

Good stuff

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

Pretty sure Trump just delivered Texas to the Dems in 2020 today

[JWizmentality]

Morons Are Governing America #MAGA

[gtn130]

Pretty sure Trump just delivered Texas to the Dems in 2020 today

Doubt it

-2020 is a long ways away
-Identity politics > everything
-There's always good ol' gerrymandering to fall back on

[payitforward]

As well, I don't think he's said black people are "genetically inferior;" he has certainly claimed that black people are less intelligent than white people -- a silly idea, to be sure, but it's not the same as claiming black people are "inferior" in a generalized sense.

I remember he specifically shared this article. The 'funny' thing about that article is the writer had to follow up with an apology because he accidentally used source material from white nationalists lol.

Not gonna bother looking up old posts, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't his first or last foray into the topic of race and intelligence.

Yes, that's what I said. He has claimed that blacks are genetically less "intelligent" than whites. That is not the same as saying they are genetically "inferior." Genes control a zillion characteristics. Even were the claim of less intelligence true, blacks might still wind up superior to whites on other measures.

Although I don't know why I have to be writing for nate, since he can weigh in on his own, to my knowledge he has never made the generalized claim that overall blacks are "genetically inferior."

That said, I can't mention the claim of less "intelligence" b/c of genetic determinism w/o also pointing out that the claim fails from many different angles.

Just for starters, it is based on a fixed, uni-dimensional model of "intelligence" -- IQ test results. Actually, worse than that, it simply equates IQ test content with intelligence. I.e. it makes the claim that what an individual marks down on an IQ test is that person's intelligence.

This idea is so dumb in so many ways that I can't take the time to write out the half dozen or so that instantly leap to mind. All the same, one place to start might be to remember that the guy who invented the IQ test said explicitly that it did not test for innate intelligence.

& that's just for starters.

[montestewart]

I would not be at all surprised if this turned out to all be fake.

Sadly, I also would not be terribly surprised if it turned out to be true.

The cripplingly depressing part of all this is that, if it actually does turn out to be true, I suspect it would stand a higher likely degree of having Trump out on an island by himself than anything else he could possibly do, like start a war with North Korea, kill someone, be involved in a massive corruption scandal, collude with Russians, collude with Nazis, or anything else of the sort. It might not sink him, and I'm not saying any of those things I've listed are true or not, but it's the reality of politics that sex scandals carry far more weight than anything else. Well, that and admitting you're wrong about something, even if you are. If there's anything about the world that has me pessimistic about humanity's future, it's that reality. In fact, it's been pretty clear from the beginning that Trump and his team understood this reality, too, because they've been waaaay out in front of it with those stories of his womanizing early on and all the fake news stuff. At least now he can try to brush it off as just Trump being Trump, or fake news, or both, which I'm sure he would, were it actually to be true, which I wouldn't be surprised either way, honestly.

Just as long as it's women doing the urinating, I think he'll be okay.

[Pointgod]

Pretty sure Trump just delivered Texas to the Dems in 2020 today

Never under estimate the ability of voters to go against their own interests as long as it screws over others.

[gtn130]

As well, I don't think he's said black people are "genetically inferior;" he has certainly claimed that black people are less intelligent than white people -- a silly idea, to be sure, but it's not the same as claiming black people are "inferior" in a generalized sense.

I remember he specifically shared this article. The 'funny' thing about that article is the writer had to follow up with an apology because he accidentally used source material from white nationalists lol.

Not gonna bother looking up old posts, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't his first or last foray into the topic of race and intelligence.

Yes, that's what I said. He has claimed that blacks are genetically less "intelligent" than whites. That is not the same as saying they are genetically "inferior." Genes control a zillion characteristics. Even were the claim of less intelligence true, blacks might still wind up superior to whites on other measures.

Although I don't know why I have to be writing for nate, since he can weigh in on his own, to my knowledge he has never made the generalized claim that overall blacks are "genetically inferior."

That said, I can't mention the claim of less "intelligence" b/c of genetic determinism w/o also pointing out that the claim fails from many different angles.

Just for starters, it is based on a fixed, uni-dimensional model of "intelligence" -- IQ test results. Actually, worse than that, it simply equates IQ test content with intelligence. I.e. it makes the claim that what an individual marks down on an IQ test is that person's intelligence.

This idea is so dumb in so many ways that I can't take the time to write out the half dozen or so that instantly leap to mind. All the same, one place to start might be to remember that the guy who invented the IQ test said explicitly that it did not test for innate intelligence.

& that's just for starters.

I'm not sure why this distinction matters in the context of Nate's racist posts.

To what end do you think Nate is posting about race/intelligence/genetics? Why do you think he's done so much research on this topic and is armed with his [highly questionable] sources? Do you think he, an avid Breitbart reader, just has some innocent curiosity about this subject?

I know we're all very worried about offending racists here, but I have a pro tip: racists don't typically come out with declarative statements like 'I am racist' or 'I hate all immigrants because they look different' - you don't need to give them the benefit of the doubt until they fully 100% spell it out for you that they are in fact racist.

[gtn130]

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Oh, look! This is that publication that the alt-right reads! I bet they aren't racist.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Pretty sure that's definitive proof that the genetics of skin color are all we need to know in order to judge people.

[dckingsfan]

So, Daca is now done and Trump has thrown it back to the legislature that has never been able to get legislation through.

The clock is now ticking - 6 months to get it done. Let's see if they step-up.

[Pointgod]

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Oh, look! This is that publication that the alt-right reads! I bet they aren't racist.

This is hilarious for a few reasons.

1. Anyone that understands basic math is that 2500 out of 800000 people is less than .5% of Daca recipients. Which I'm willing to bet is lower % than the number of white Americans.
2. Daca recipients can't have a criminal record so the Breitbart column is certainly lying or wildly distorting the truth.

This is why I bristle at the idea that Breitbart and Fox News are the same as MSNBC and CNN. The amount of lies and distortions of the truth that come from those two sources are absolutely disgusting. Also the reason why I never take anyone that uses Breitbart as a source seriously.

[Pointgod]

So, Daca is now done and Trump has thrown it back to the legislature that has never been able to get legislation through.

The clock is now ticking - 6 months to get it done. Let's see if they step-up.

Congress has had years to pass immigration reform and they haven't managed to do it. They're not going to do this in 6 months and Trump is using them as cover for when this eventually fails. Republicans are already talking a out using this as a bargaining chip for border security.