The Troy Brown Thread

[nate33]

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?s=19

Who was the youngest pick? It's not Beal. Both Beal and Brown turned 19 in the summer before their NBA debut. Beal's birthday was June 28th. Brown's is July 28th.

It wasn't Kwame. Kwame turned 20 in March at the tail end of his rookie season.

Aaah. After a little research, I see it was Andray Blatche. He debuted as an 18 year-old and didn't turn 19 until November 10th, a few days after the season started.

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Who was the youngest pick? It's not Beal. Both Beal and Brown turned 19 in the summer before their NBA debut. Beal's birthday was June 28th. Brown's is July 28th.

It wasn't Kwame. Kwame turned 20 in March at the tail end of his rookie season.

Aaah. After a little research, I see it was Andray Blatche. He debuted as an 18 year-old and didn't turn 19 until November 10th, a few days after the season started.

Sanon is a couple months younger than Brown. What a terrible article.

[nate33]

Sanon is a couple months younger than Brown. What a terrible article.

Sanon hasn't technically made the roster and has no contract. I don't think it's disingenuous not to include him.

[closg00]

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

Well, his last six first-round picks have been before Troy Brown: Oubre, Porter, Beal, Vesely, Singleton, Wall. Not awful, not good in 2011 obviously. I can understand not being optimistic about his history but also to have an open mind about this kid. I don't know about playing hard. ...

Just noticed this. Of course we should have an open mind about Troy Brown Jr.

But those were not his last R1 picks. For one thing you're leaving out Seraphin & Booker. For another, you prefer to ignore having traded our 2017 R1 pick to bandaid over his own error, having traded our 2016 R1 pick (a lottery pick) for an unproductive journeyman (Kieff), & having traded our 2014 R1 pick for an expiring contract (!) to make up for having no plan B when Okafor was injured.

Admittedly, those are not indicators of how well he picks, but they do indicate what value he puts on R1 picks.

Moreover -- & this is important -- calling his picks "not awful" b/c they included Wall, Beal & Porter is something I can't agree with. It's just not nearly as hard to pick at those spots as it is to find talent elsewhere in the draft.

So, if you leave out the #1 & #3s you get a very different picture. His mid-round 1 picks in the last 9 drafts have been: Seraphin, Booker, Singleton, Oubre & Brown. Oubre/Brown are open questions. He got nothing -- zip, zero -- for the other three. Let them all walk.

His R2 record is worse if anything; not just the picks but the value he places on them. Shelvin Mack (waived: "we don't have time to develop him"), Satoransky (leaving Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton & Will Barton on the board), no one (@ #46 in 2012 -- pick thrown away), Glen Rice III (giving another R2 pick for the privilege; waived), no one (sold for cash), Aaron White (non-NBA player), no one (wasted in a trade to jettison a previous mistake), no one (traded for a rent-a-player), & Issuf Sanon.

That's 9 picks out of whom we have gotten one player -- but not until he played 4 more European seasons.

Is there a worse drafting record in the league? I doubt it.

[payitforward]

Sanon is a couple months younger than Brown. What a terrible article.

Sanon hasn't technically made the roster and has no contract. I don't think it's disingenuous not to include him.

But, the article wasn't about the roster; the article was about draft picks -- Sanon was a draft pick. At first, I thought it might be about R1 picks, but Blatche proves that wasn't the case.

[nate33]

Sanon is a couple months younger than Brown. What a terrible article.

Sanon hasn't technically made the roster and has no contract. I don't think it's disingenuous not to include him.

But, the article wasn't about the roster; the article was about draft picks -- Sanon was a draft pick. At first, I thought it might be about R1 picks, but Blatche proves that wasn't the case.

I hear you. You can argue that the statement that Brown was the 2nd youngest pick ever is factually incorrect from a purely semantic point of view. I'm just saying that the spirit of the statement doesn't seem disingenuous or negligently false. Brown is the 2nd youngest pick of players who actually made a roster. I wouldn't characterize the article as "terrible" because of that minor detail.

[payitforward]

Back to Troy Brown Jr.

Summer League is over -- anyone want to give him a grade?

[DC old guy]

Very disappointed in this thread. Brown just played four games in Summer League and nobody seems to have watched him or commented until this last post. I watched several games and Brown looks like he has great potential. Passed well, hit the jump shot, and played good, disruptive defense. In his last game v. Dallas, he scored 25 points, and hit 2/6 threes. Very smooth player. He did disappear a couple of halfs, but then came back with a lot of activity.

Two other players also played quite well. Thomas Bryant is the big man that the Wiz have been looking to develop. He is 6'10" and looks strong and quick. Rebounded and passed well. Also fast, and has a three point shot. Scored 22 against Dallas on 10 for 13 shooting (several put backs). Devin Robinson was outstanding -- fast, tremendous jumping ability, good jump shot. Also scored in 20s in several of the games.

Yusef Sanon is very young but showed potential -- fast, very aggressive on defense, good three point shot (3-5 v. Dallas). He will need time in Europe to develop. The other three really have good chance of helping Wizards (except roster is quite full).

[NatP4]

Very disappointed in this thread. Brown just played four games in Summer League and nobody seems to have watched him or commented until this last post. I watched several games and Brown looks like he has great potential. Passed well, hit the jump shot, and played good, disruptive defense. In his last game v. Dallas, he scored 25 points, and hit 2/6 threes. Very smooth player. He did disappear a couple of halfs, but then came back with a lot of activity.

Two other players also played quite well. Thomas Bryant is the big man that the Wiz have been looking to develop. He is 6'10" and looks strong and quick. Rebounded and passed well. Also fast, and has a three point shot. Scored 22 against Dallas on 10 for 13 shooting (several put backs). Devin Robinson was outstanding -- fast, tremendous jumping ability, good jump shot. Also scored in 20s in several of the games.

Yusef Sanon is very young but showed potential -- fast, very aggressive on defense, good three point shot (3-5 v. Dallas). He will need time in Europe to develop. The other three really have good chance of helping Wizards (except roster is quite full).

Well, people have been posting about this in the summer league thread. It’s tough because posting something like “Troy Brown looked good today” is usually met by a 350 word essay about true shooting and how Ernie could’ve OBVIOUSLY traded back and received an extra asset at the draft. Gets brutal

[nate33]

Very disappointed in this thread. Brown just played four games in Summer League and nobody seems to have watched him or commented until this last post. I watched several games and Brown looks like he has great potential. Passed well, hit the jump shot, and played good, disruptive defense. In his last game v. Dallas, he scored 25 points, and hit 2/6 threes. Very smooth player. He did disappear a couple of halfs, but then came back with a lot of activity.

Two other players also played quite well. Thomas Bryant is the big man that the Wiz have been looking to develop. He is 6'10" and looks strong and quick. Rebounded and passed well. Also fast, and has a three point shot. Scored 22 against Dallas on 10 for 13 shooting (several put backs). Devin Robinson was outstanding -- fast, tremendous jumping ability, good jump shot. Also scored in 20s in several of the games.

Yusef Sanon is very young but showed potential -- fast, very aggressive on defense, good three point shot (3-5 v. Dallas). He will need time in Europe to develop. The other three really have good chance of helping Wizards (except roster is quite full).

There's lots of Troy Brown praise in the Summer League thread. Nobody seemed to bother to bump this thread, but there was lots of praise out there.

I thought Brown was solid. He's a little right hand dominant, and I'm not quite sure if his slashes to the basket will be quite as effective against NBA level athleticism and preparation, but there is certainly reason for optimism so far. He has good court awareness, a good handle, he defends and he rebounds. Basically, he's a pretty complete player except his outside shot is poor. I'm not sure how much he is going to be able to help us in his rookie season until he improves his 3-point shot. You can't play non-shooting wings these days. But I think he'll be a contributing player by next year.

Devin Robinson looked bigger and faster than most of his competition, but it's worth noting that he's 23 years old. He's a pretty good shooter, but I was unimpressed with his rebounding. In one game, he played 33 minutes and had 0 rebounds. In another he played 30 minutes and pulled down just 2 boards. He's definitely worth keeping for another season on a 2-way contract to see what happens, but I'm not certain he'll make it in the league.

I thought Thomas Bryant looked very promising. He could score inside and out. He was active defensively and usually in the right place to challenge a shot. His length was definitely a deterrent at the rim, though his lack of hops was also noticeable. He's a physical player with a bit of a mean streak and didn't take kindly to people pushing him around or grabbing him. He might get goaded into some techs if he's not careful. My biggest complaint is that I didn't think his conditioning was all that great. He was often late to get back on D, but it seemed to be fatigue, not laziness. He might actually be better off if he lost about 10 pounds. I think the extra quickness, elevation and endurance from carrying less weight would be more valuable then the strength he might lose. It's worth noting that he is still pretty young, turning 21 in 2 weeks. His ceiling is higher.

[WallToWall]

Watch on YouTube

Troy Brown highlights from summer league.

He has some moves, and he plays smart. I like his potential. I also like that half-hook shot that he seems to go to, as it is almost impossible to block.

[prime1time]

I don't really issue grades for summer league. We draft him, now we coach him up. I was a little caught off guard by his lack of explosiveness. I've seen highlights here and there of him dunking, but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to be explosive on the floor. As far as how I evaluate players I think Brown shows tremendous potential. People might play down versatility and being a jack of all trades but it's where the NBA is going. Troy projects to be able to shoot from 3, finish at the hoop, create for others, attack the hoop and play solid D. Do I ever see him being an elite scorer? No. But can he be good enough to attack mismatches? Most definitely. I look forward to his body filling out and maturing. I think he should watch some tape of Tatum and see how to rely on his length of improve his ability to finish.

In terms of comps I like a Livingston comp and he should focus on ground bound shooters who were successful like Manu. I don't ever see Brown being a primary or secondary scorer on championship team, but I think he definitely fits the mold of what you look for in terms of a championship caliber role player. Looking at the roster, he's probably going to struggle to get on the court much this year but 2 to 3 years I see him being a vital piece to the puzzle.

Another thing I loved about the game is no bad shots. There were a lot of bad turnovers, but no forcing shots. I can live with turnovers because it means he's trying to create. And much better to have young players try to create and fail, than not to try at all.

For some potential concerns. #1 would be his shooting. His form looks good, but until it goes in, and goes in consistently, It will be a concern. The current NBA demand shooting. Another concern would be his inability to finish above the rim. He was able to get by with it in summer league, but the NBA is a different issue. A 3rd concern would be his young age, and being in DC.

But I'm curious. What are other people's concerns regarding Troy? Is it just shooting and lack of explosiveness/athleticism?

[NatP4]

My only concern is the jumpshot. It’s just tough to be a plus player if you can’t be efficient. You aren’t getting to the NBA and driving right every time like he did in summer league. Worried a little bit about the vision/playmaking, didn’t see much of it. He has everything else, IQ, unselfishness, quality ball handling with actual dribble moves, elite defense (I mean really good, didn’t see him get beat much at all) rebounding, solid passing ability. If he ends up being a good shooter, like Satoransky became in his 2nd season, he could be really really good, I mean like star upside.

His shot did look good, he has nice form, he made a bunch of jumpers actually.

I think he has Evan Turner to Paul Pierce variability.

[payitforward]

Very disappointed in this thread. Brown just played four games in Summer League and nobody seems to have watched him or commented until this last post. I watched several games and Brown looks like he has great potential. Passed well, hit the jump shot, and played good, disruptive defense. In his last game v. Dallas, he scored 25 points, and hit 2/6 threes. Very smooth player. He did disappear a couple of halfs, but then came back with a lot of activity.

Two other players also played quite well. Thomas Bryant is the big man that the Wiz have been looking to develop. He is 6'10" and looks strong and quick. Rebounded and passed well. Also fast, and has a three point shot. Scored 22 against Dallas on 10 for 13 shooting (several put backs). Devin Robinson was outstanding -- fast, tremendous jumping ability, good jump shot. Also scored in 20s in several of the games.

Yusef Sanon is very young but showed potential -- fast, very aggressive on defense, good three point shot (3-5 v. Dallas). He will need time in Europe to develop. The other three really have good chance of helping Wizards (except roster is quite full).

Well, people have been posting about this in the summer league thread. It’s tough because posting something like “Troy Brown looked good today” is usually met by a 350 word essay about true shooting and how Ernie could’ve OBVIOUSLY traded back and received an extra asset at the draft. Gets brutal

Ok, I tried. Don't know why, but you seem intent on turning yourself into a complete a**hole. You're back on ignore.

[payitforward]

Very disappointed in this thread. Brown just played four games in Summer League and nobody seems to have watched him or commented until this last post. I watched several games and Brown looks like he has great potential. Passed well, hit the jump shot, and played good, disruptive defense. In his last game v. Dallas, he scored 25 points, and hit 2/6 threes. Very smooth player. He did disappear a couple of halfs, but then came back with a lot of activity.

Two other players also played quite well. Thomas Bryant is the big man that the Wiz have been looking to develop. He is 6'10" and looks strong and quick. Rebounded and passed well. Also fast, and has a three point shot. Scored 22 against Dallas on 10 for 13 shooting (several put backs). Devin Robinson was outstanding -- fast, tremendous jumping ability, good jump shot. Also scored in 20s in several of the games.

Yusef Sanon is very young but showed potential -- fast, very aggressive on defense, good three point shot (3-5 v. Dallas). He will need time in Europe to develop. The other three really have good chance of helping Wizards (except roster is quite full).

I think it was 5 games, in fact. I watched them all, & it's my impression that everyone here -- or almost everyone -- also did.

Troy Brown does look like a promising kid. He hasn't even turned 19 yet, so it might not be best to expect too much too early. In fact, he didn't shoot particularly well, & he showed some other problems as well (drives right but doesn't really seem able to drive left, isn't particularly quick for an NBA 3, & a few other things). But every player has limitations one way or another, & this is a really young rookie so there's reason to hope he'll be a good NBA player.

Like you I'm a fan of Thomas Bryant. & both he & Brown have guaranteed contracts, so no roster problem as far as they are concerned. Devin Robinson is another matter. We're at 14, & who knows whether Ernie will carry 15 guys -- if not, Robinson will be a 2-way player again (unless some other team makes him an offer).

One thing is that with Meeks suspended for the first 18 games, we may see Robinson get some PT. That would be great. SL play really doesn't mean anything; I'd love to see Devin Robinson playing vs. NBA players.

[NatP4]

Has anyone else watched his high school highlights? he looks like a NBA veteran lol. What high school kid plays like that?

Watch on YouTube

[trast66]

I don't really issue grades for summer league. We draft him, now we coach him up. I was a little caught off guard by his lack of explosiveness. I've seen highlights here and there of him dunking, but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to be explosive on the floor. As far as how I evaluate players I think Brown shows tremendous potential. People might play down versatility and being a jack of all trades but it's where the NBA is going. Troy projects to be able to shoot from 3, finish at the hoop, create for others, attack the hoop and play solid D. Do I ever see him being an elite scorer? No. But can he be good enough to attack mismatches? Most definitely. I look forward to his body filling out and maturing. I think he should watch some tape of Tatum and see how to rely on his length of improve his ability to finish.

In terms of comps I like a Livingston comp and he should focus on ground bound shooters who were successful like Manu. I don't ever see Brown being a primary or secondary scorer on championship team, but I think he definitely fits the mold of what you look for in terms of a championship caliber role player. Looking at the roster, he's probably going to struggle to get on the court much this year but 2 to 3 years I see him being a vital piece to the puzzle.

Another thing I loved about the game is no bad shots. There were a lot of bad turnovers, but no forcing shots. I can live with turnovers because it means he's trying to create. And much better to have young players try to create and fail, than not to try at all.

For some potential concerns. #1 would be his shooting. His form looks good, but until it goes in, and goes in consistently, It will be a concern. The current NBA demand shooting. Another concern would be his inability to finish above the rim. He was able to get by with it in summer league, but the NBA is a different issue. A 3rd concern would be his young age, and being in DC.

But I'm curious. What are other people's concerns regarding Troy? Is it just shooting and lack of explosiveness/athleticism?

Co sign on this analysis. If he can develop a jumshot with range it will open up his ability to create plays. He does not look as athletic as that high a draft pick should be (he’s only 18 so still may still be developing strength). He seemed mature beyond his years, not at all intimidated, and a hard worker. He looked better this SL than Josh Jackson, the 4th pick in last years draft.

I wanted Z. Smith, so I will always compare Brown and Smith during their careers. Neither is ready to contribute this year. I certainly feel better about the Brown pick than I did on draft night, mostly because he looked the part of a NBA player and appears to be the type to work on improving.

[NatP4]

Soooooo, Troy Brown?

[payitforward]

Yeah... Troy Brown?

Anyone want to give him a grade? & say why he deserves it (good or bad)?