The 2025 Rookie Class

[closg00]

So many pretend GM's on this board. I was the only one screaming to draft him at 6 over Tre and I can't recall one of you long term GM's backing that move. Now everyone is trying to cover their tracks and pretend they aren't horrible pretend GMs. I wish we had someone here post some of your comments before the draft.

Look them up.

Link to the last pre-draft thread, keying on Queen. CCJ and AFM were big boosters, I liked Queen, but chickened-out on taking him at 6 and instead advocated for Fears with Bailey gone.
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=Queen+Draft&fid%5B%5D=35&start=80

[Dat2U]

Queen is still a statue on defense. That's kind of an issue. Also Queen is strictly a C IMO and Sarr's best position is C. Prior to the draft I thought the thought the two could complement but with Sarr's development around the basket, I think the fit might have been awkward.

Queen can average 30 & 10 a night but unless he starts moving his feet on defense... it's cool to look at but won't amount to much team success.

[nate33]

I called him the next Demarcus Cousins. I stand by that assessment. I think he will post massive numbers in points and rebounds, but with so-so efficiency and bad defense such that his team won't be very good.

I just don't think you can win with that type of player in the pick-and-roll era. If your center can't defend the pick and roll either by switching or by being long enough and athletic enough to defend both the ball handler and the roller while dropping, then you will not advance in the playoffs against good teams.

The one exception is Jokic, and that's because he is the best offensive player of all time.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ and I were talking about Queen for months. Where do you think Derik Queen pockets fatter than Dairy Queen turns the low post to a scary scene came from bruh

Thank you.

Literally for months. Both of us.

I've been And1 all pro Derrick Queen posts for months!

The three of us. True.

[pcbothwel]

I called him the next Demarcus Cousins. I stand by that assessment. I think he will post massive numbers in points and rebounds, but with so-so efficiency and bad defense such that his team won't be very good.

I just don't think you can win with that type of player in the pick-and-roll era. If your center can't defend the pick and roll either by switching or by being long enough and athletic enough to defend both the ball handler and the roller while dropping, then you will not advance in the playoffs against good teams.

The one exception is Jokic, and that's because he is the best offensive player of all time.

Also, If you are a defensive statue as a big...you need to be BIG.
Jokic is 6'11+ barefoot with a 7'3 wingspan and ~280 lbs easy.
Queen is 2 inches shorter and has a 7'0 wingspan at 250lbs.
Its the difference between Trayce Jackson-Davis and Steven Adams

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My only concern with Queen was conditioning and defense. I don't think anyone questioned his offensive skills but if you're a turnstile on defense, your ceiling is a Jalen Smith type where you get 18-20 minutes off the bench.

Queen is still a statue on defense. That's kind of an issue. Also Queen is strictly a C IMO and Sarr's best position is C. Prior to the draft I thought the thought the two could complement but with Sarr's development around the basket, I think the fit might have been awkward.

Queen can average 30 & 10 a night but unless he starts moving his feet on defense... it's cool to look at but won't amount to much team success.

I called him the next Demarcus Cousins. I stand by that assessment. I think he will post massive numbers in points and rebounds, but with so-so efficiency and bad defense such that his team won't be very good.

I just don't think you can win with that type of player in the pick-and-roll era. If your center can't defend the pick and roll either by switching or by being long enough and athletic enough to defend both the ball handler and the roller while dropping, then you will not advance in the playoffs against good teams.

The one exception is Jokic, and that's because he is the best offensive player of all time.

Great! I love this. Just double down on wrong, all of you.

Jalen Smith is exactly who this Wizards team needs to play with Alex Sarr.

If Derrick Queen was putting up 30 and 10 and his teammate was Jalen Duren, your team could win a championship. Queen has more offensive tools than Vlade Divac. What he lacks is an athletic finisher who crushes the boards like Chris Webber. Derrick is a problem from the high post. Eddie Jordan would have loved running the Princeton offense through DQ. This idea of what a C must be is ridiculous.

Queen is nowhere near as strong as Demarcus Cousins. I do not expect he will approach Cousins' rebound rate. Queen is one thousand times smarter in basketball IQ. He handles like a guard and facilitates. Time will tell if his teams will win. I know a lot of people like Queen now a lot more than they did draft night.

[dckingsfan]

I called him the next Demarcus Cousins. I stand by that assessment. I think he will post massive numbers in points and rebounds, but with so-so efficiency and bad defense such that his team won't be very good.

I just don't think you can win with that type of player in the pick-and-roll era. If your center can't defend the pick and roll either by switching or by being long enough and athletic enough to defend both the ball handler and the roller while dropping, then you will not advance in the playoffs against good teams.

The one exception is Jokic, and that's because he is the best offensive player of all time.

Not sure if I agree with this if:

1) Queen continues to improve offensively
2) Queen develops a consistent 3 point shot (currently shooting .111)
He is already better than I had expected, but if he keeps getting better...

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

[tontoz]

I just watched a bit of the game on LP. It started in the 4th quarter with a couple of Queen defensive gems. The first was Queen trying to guard a Deni pick and roll which inevitably ended with an uncontested layup for Deni.

Then Queen was guarding Clingan underneath. Deni drove and Queen made maybe one step toward him with his hands down and watched Deni throw the alley up dunk for Clingan while Queen stood there watching in no man's land.

I only watched a few minutes but Antonio Daniels was on the call complaining about the teams defense.

[nate33]

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

People keep saying this, but I don't think it's true. The problem isn't that Queen needs a rim protector. (That's a problem, but not THE problem.) The problem is that, regardless of who plays alongside him, Queen is going to be forced to defend the pick and roll. Sarr won't be able to help if he is stuck in the corner guarding a power forward who can shoot corner 3's.

[dckingsfan]

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

People keep saying this, but I don't think it's true. The problem isn't that Queen needs a rim protector. (That's a problem, but not THE problem.) The problem is that, regardless of who plays alongside him, Queen is going to be forced to defend the pick and roll. Sarr won't be able to help if he is stuck in the corner guarding a power forward who can shoot corner 3's.

Well, that goes for the worst defender on every team. And he does have his pluses on D, namely he is a pretty good defensive rebounder now (and he will get better) and he has those really quick strong hands.

I fully believe (oh man, that oft gets one in trouble) that a team could create a defensive scheme where his offensive abilities will out weigh the defensive issues.

BTW, I wasn't of this mind before the draft. I didn't think that he would be able to rebound at this level. I thought he would be a hot mess as a rookie.

Also, I would still take the combo of Coward and Kalkbrenner in 20/20 hindsight over Queen and whomever. But I thought Coward would go lower and we could trade down - silly me.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just watched a bit of the game on LP. It started in the 4th quarter with a couple of Queen defensive gems. The first was Queen trying to guard a Deni pick and roll which inevitably ended with an uncontested layup for Deni.

Then Queen was guarding Clingan underneath. Deni drove and Queen made maybe one step toward him with his hands down and watched Deni throw the alley up dunk for Clingan while Queen stood there watching in no man's land.

I only watched a few minutes but Antonio Daniels was on the call complaining about the teams defense.

You conveniently missed the first quarter when Queen had 12 points.

You missed the first half when Queen had 16 points and New Orleans led 52-50.

New Orleans lost by 8, and they were -8 with Queen on the bench.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

People keep saying this, but I don't think it's true. The problem isn't that Queen needs a rim protector. (That's a problem, but not THE problem.) The problem is that, regardless of who plays alongside him, Queen is going to be forced to defend the pick and roll. Sarr won't be able to help if he is stuck in the corner guarding a power forward who can shoot corner 3's.

It works both ways. Whoever covers Queen is going to have to defend the pick and roll.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

People keep saying this, but I don't think it's true. The problem isn't that Queen needs a rim protector. (That's a problem, but not THE problem.) The problem is that, regardless of who plays alongside him, Queen is going to be forced to defend the pick and roll. Sarr won't be able to help if he is stuck in the corner guarding a power forward who can shoot corner 3's.

Well, that goes for the worst defender on every team. And he does have his pluses on D, namely he is a pretty good defensive rebounder now (and he will get better) and he has those really quick strong hands.

I fully believe (oh man, that oft gets one in trouble) that a team could create a defensive scheme where his offensive abilities will out weigh the defensive issues.

BTW, I wasn't of this mind before the draft. I didn't think that he would be able to rebound at this level. I thought he would be a hot mess as a rookie.

Also, I would still take the combo of Coward and Kalkbrenner in 20/20 hindsight over Queen and whomever. But I thought Coward would go lower and we could trade down - silly me.

Charlotte won the draft.

(Coward, Kalkbrenner, AND Knueppel. Good grief.) See edit.

EDITED: COWARD PLAYS FOR MEMPHIS

Sion James is not chopped liver.

[tontoz]

I just watched a bit of the game on LP. It started in the 4th quarter with a couple of Queen defensive gems. The first was Queen trying to guard a Deni pick and roll which inevitably ended with an uncontested layup for Deni.

Then Queen was guarding Clingan underneath. Deni drove and Queen made maybe one step toward him with his hands down and watched Deni throw the alley up dunk for Clingan while Queen stood there watching in no man's land.

I only watched a few minutes but Antonio Daniels was on the call complaining about the teams defense.

You conveniently missed the first quarter when Queen had 12 points.

You missed the first half when Queen had 16 points and New Orleans led 52-50.

New Orleans lost by 8, and they were -8 with Queen on the bench.

I just started watching the game while on lunch break. I plan on watching the whole thing.

And i don't care about what Queen does on offense. The center spot is the most important position on defense which is why i don't want a short, flow footed center with a 28" vertical.

[nate33]

3) Queen can play alongside another big that is a rim protector (Sarr for example)

Ideally the other big would be a 3&D guy. They don't really have that "guy" on the roster. So, Queen may end up failing just because of this FO (which is beyond bad).

People keep saying this, but I don't think it's true. The problem isn't that Queen needs a rim protector. (That's a problem, but not THE problem.) The problem is that, regardless of who plays alongside him, Queen is going to be forced to defend the pick and roll. Sarr won't be able to help if he is stuck in the corner guarding a power forward who can shoot corner 3's.

It works both ways. Whoever covers Queen is going to have to defend the pick and roll.

It doesn't work that way. ANY position can run pick and roll on offense. You don't need a gifted offensive center to run pick and roll. But you do need a gifted defensive center to defend pick and roll.

The fact that Queen can run pick and roll on offense is nice, but not particularly necessary. The fact that he can't defend it very well will be exploited relentlessly. Defense from the center position is more important than offense.

[dckingsfan]

Charlotte won the draft.

(Kalkbrenner, James, McNeeley AND Knueppel. Good grief.)

Sion James is not chopped liver.

FTFY

But yeah, they did really well.

[Kanyewest]

Looking back at Cousins stats is interesting. He averaged more turnovers than assists in each of his season's in Sacramento. Would have been nice to see a healthy Cousins on a different/better team for longer. Small sample size but Queen is averaging more assists than turnovers.

[dckingsfan]

Looking back at Cousins stats is interesting. He averaged more turnovers than assists in each of his season's in Sacramento. Would have been nice to see a healthy Cousins on a different/better team for longer. Small sample size but Queen is averaging more assists than turnovers.

They really are two different players (coming from a frustrated Kings fan).

[The Consiglieri]

The Joker’s dominance was mentioned in the NBA games thread, perfect segue to plug “Baby Jokic”, DQ, the kid that will turn the low-post into a scary scene as a man. Proud DQ Cult member.

Watch on YouTube

Starting at 16:17 he talks about the part that has surprised me...

Starting at 16:17 he talks about the part that has surprised me...

Yeah, completely counterintuitive from the narrative, but the sample size is small, he is going get worked by the more nimble Centers/PF until grows into his body, the Joker is not the best defender either.

The Wizards should have drafted Queen.

I said it then. I will say it now. He has unicorn skills. They have no one besides Sarr and Bagley up front. Just think of Queen lob passes to Sarr and Queen blocking shots alongside Sarr.

Two ball-handling bigs would be pretty formidable.

Yeah, no. Not at all. Zero chance they should have drafted Queen.

Feel free to posterize that if it's stupid, wouldn't be the first stupid thing I've said, but drafting Queen at 6 would have been the height of idiocy in my view.

[The Consiglieri]

My only concern with Queen was conditioning and defense. I don't think anyone questioned his offensive skills but if you're a turnstile on defense, your ceiling is a Jalen Smith type where you get 18-20 minutes off the bench.

And I don't think there's any evidence he's gonna be terribly helpful on defense, so, him being what he already was, isn't exactly a surprise right. He was supposed to be a gifted scorer, I saw the heartbreaker he did to, was it Colorado State? Forget who. Legit stud in terms of inside game. But still, not interested considering how the game is played these days, Centers that don't defend come quite cheap. It's probably the single most devalued asset of the last 25 years would be positional players like Queen. You need guys who can legit defend back there, and add competent offensive contributions, anything more is a plus. The opposite is a total disaster.