Yi to the Wizards for Ross

[nate33]

Having Arenas be guarded against young full time in practice should really help arenas push nick young. I think before it was harder for Arenas to mentor Young since Arenas was technically a point guard and why is a point guard--pretend shooting guard training another shooting guard but the acquisition of hinrich allows for wall to battle hinrich in practice every day instead of dueling with arenas.

That should be an interesting dynamic. I remember when Young was a rookie, Arenas laughed at Young's defensive ineptitude. Young is an infinitely better one-on-one defender now. Arenas is really going to have to work to score on him. Hopefully, Young will also get a chance to work on exploiting his size against a shorter player. For too long, Young was a 6-7 guard who played like a 6-3 guard. Maybe now he'll work more on posting up or simply rising over Arenas for the jumper.

[Severn Hoos]

TPE's are irrelevant to us because we're under the cap. The only reason we used TPE a not raw cap space is because the trade took place prior to July 1st. Technically, the trade happened under last season's salary structure (when we didn't actually have any cap space) so a TPE was necessary.

Either way, as it stands now, instead of having $9.5M in cap room and no Yi, we have $6.5M in cap room and Yi on the roster. If, at the Trade Deadline, somebody wants to dump a $9M contract, we can no longer accommodate them. We could only give them Yi's $4M expiring contract plus $5M in cap room. If they're over the luxtax this year, that won't help them as much.

So here's where I'm confused. First question - do you have to renounce all exceptions en masse, or can you selectively renounce them? Because it seems to me the strategy/timeline might be like this:

At 12:01 AM on July 1, the Wiz could have something like $18M in cap space (with Yi, but not including Hinrich & Seraphin yet since the trade won't happen until July 8, and not including Hamady as a 2nd rounder until he signs his contract).

One TPE is already used in the Yi trade, but the other is still in place. If we renounce the MLE & LLE, but not the $6M TPE, we should still have $12M in cap space and the TPE, no?

Then we make the trade for Hinrich/Seraphin, and cap space is mostly used up. But we still have the TPE to add a significant piece by trade. The problem with renouncing the TPE and keeping the equivalent in cap space is that we still have to fill out the roster. So no matter what min-level FAs we sign, each signing eats a little more into the remaining cap space, making it harder to facilitate a mid-season trade. This way, we have the $6M TPE to facilitate the trade at the deadline while filling out the roster with low-level vet signings & undrafted FAs.

Is this a feasible scenario? And would it actually be beneficial?

[rockymac52]

^now that you mention it, I always imagine Young as short for a SG, probably more like 6'5" in my mind, and that's definitely all because of the way he plays the game. Interesting.

[nate33]

So here's where I'm confused. First question - do you have to renounce all exceptions en masse, or can you selectively renounce them? Because it seems to me the strategy/timeline might be like this:

At 12:01 AM on July 1, the Wiz could have something like $18M in cap space (with Yi, but not including Hinrich & Seraphin yet since the trade won't happen until July 8, and not including Hamady as a 2nd rounder until he signs his contract).

One TPE is already used in the Yi trade, but the other is still in place. If we renounce the MLE & LLE, but not the $6M TPE, we should still have $12M in cap space and the TPE, no?

Then we make the trade for Hinrich/Seraphin, and cap space is mostly used up. But we still have the TPE to add a significant piece by trade.

I think you have the timeline down right so far.

At this point, all transactions are complete at we have a $6M TPE and our payroll would be $7M below the salary cap limit. We would have 10 players on our roster: Arenas, Hinrich, Wall, Young, Thornton, Booker, Seraphin, Blatche, Yi and McGee.

The question is, how much difference does the TPE make? We would probably add N'Diaye and Cartier Martin to vet minimum contracts and leave us with a $6M TPE and about $6.1M under the cap. The only way the TPE becomes a factor is if we signed more vet minimum free agents. If we signed one more vet min guy, we'd have just $5.6M in cap space but still have the $6M TPE - giving us just slightly more flexibility.

It all becomes moot the moment we sign anybody for more than the vet minimum exemption (Singleton might cost a bit more). We would have to renounce (or use) the TPE to do so.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Having Arenas be guarded against young full time in practice should really help arenas push nick young. I think before it was harder for Arenas to mentor Young since Arenas was technically a point guard and why is a point guard--pretend shooting guard training another shooting guard but the acquisition of hinrich allows for wall to battle hinrich in practice every day instead of dueling with arenas.

That should be an interesting dynamic. I remember when Young was a rookie, Arenas laughed at Young's defensive ineptitude. Young is an infinitely better one-on-one defender now. Arenas is really going to have to work to score on him. Hopefully, Young will also get a chance to work on exploiting his size against a shorter player. For too long, Young was a 6-7 guard who played like a 6-3 guard. Maybe now he'll work more on posting up or simply rising over Arenas for the jumper.

That's an interesting dynamic. Young is going to make Arenas an even better score and force Arenas to step his D up. Also Hinrich is going to push John Wall and teach him some veteran tricks.

[Severn Hoos]

So here's where I'm confused. First question - do you have to renounce all exceptions en masse, or can you selectively renounce them? Because it seems to me the strategy/timeline might be like this:

At 12:01 AM on July 1, the Wiz could have something like $18M in cap space (with Yi, but not including Hinrich & Seraphin yet since the trade won't happen until July 8, and not including Hamady as a 2nd rounder until he signs his contract).

One TPE is already used in the Yi trade, but the other is still in place. If we renounce the MLE & LLE, but not the $6M TPE, we should still have $12M in cap space and the TPE, no?

Then we make the trade for Hinrich/Seraphin, and cap space is mostly used up. But we still have the TPE to add a significant piece by trade.

I think you have the timeline down right so far.

At this point, all transactions are complete at we have a $6M TPE and our payroll would be $7M below the salary cap limit. We would have 10 players on our roster: Arenas, Hinrich, Wall, Young, Thornton, Booker, Seraphin, Blatche, Yi and McGee.

The question is, how much difference does the TPE make? We would probably add N'Diaye and Cartier Martin to vet minimum contracts and leave us with a $6M TPE and about $6.1M under the cap. The only way the TPE becomes a factor is if we signed more vet minimum free agents. If we signed one more vet min guy, we'd have just $5.6M in cap space but still have the $6M TPE - giving us just slightly more flexibility.

It all becomes moot the moment we sign anybody for more than the vet minimum exemption (Singleton might cost a bit more). We would have to renounce (or use) the TPE to do so.

Thanks, nate. I knew it was close. Someone else posted that Singleton has a cap hold of $1.3M - not sure if that's correct, but if it is: Could we wait to sign N'Diaye and Martin, keep the cap hold for Singleton (in case his actual signing number is higher), then execute the trade to put us right at the cap line while holding the TPE & Singleton's rights? After the trade is made, we could go over the cap for N'Diaye, Martin, and Randle (or whoever) - and/or add a true vet who would be willing to play for the minimum? Then, sign Singleton to a reasonable (2-year) deal, and roll with:

Wall/Hinrich/Randle
Arenas/Young
Thornton/Martin/Booker
Blatche/Yi/Singleton
McGee/Seraphin/N'Diaye

Maybe add in a grizzled vet at the min ($1M for old-timers) to help out at C? Of course, if Seraphin doesn't come over, then there's a few more dollars out there to fill that slot.

But we'd have the $6M trade exemption to either snag a MLE-type player or combine for a bigger fish. I think I like that strategy, with an eye to 2012 as the big prize.

[nate33]

However we do it, I think you're on the right track. We'll probably end up with something slightly less than $6M in cap space, while maintaining the $6M TPE as a trade chip.

Maybe that's why EG pulled the trigger on the Yi deal. He figured that, even without the Yi trade, our cap room was going to get whittled down to about $7.5M or so once Singleton and all the vet minimum free agents were signed. But by clever manipulation of the cap rules, he pulled off the trade while mapping out our free agent signings so that we'd keep the $6M TPE.

Basically, instead of losing the full $3M in cap space in the Yi transaction, we actually lost only $1.5M or so.

[nate33]

Like in the Hinrich trade, when EG initially looks like he made a stupid move, further review shows that it wasn't so bad after all.

[Zonkerbl]

huh! you mean EG might actually know more about being an NBA GM than we do? Perish the thought!

It was clever to create those TPEs in the first place, glad to see he's still using his GM trickery.

[Zonkerbl]

Like in the Hinrich trade, when EG initially looks like he made a stupid move, further review shows that it wasn't so bad after all.

So what do you like about the Heinrich trade now?

[Rafael122]

Honestly, does it matter? It's not like we got some scrub at the end of his career. Hinrich is a dog, and you need that on a team, and he's a solid player. He is overpaid, yes, but so are 95% of the players out there.

We had to use the cap space one way or another, we had to field a team. We're not world beaters, and we're probably not going to make the playoffs, but it could have been a lot worse. The one thing we have that maybe a handful of teams have is a franchise player. It all starts with Wall.

[nate33]

Like in the Hinrich trade, when EG initially looks like he made a stupid move, further review shows that it wasn't so bad after all.

So what do you like about the Heinrich trade now?

I always liked the Hinrich trade.

I didn't like the Yi trade but now I'm seeing that it might not be as bad as I initially perceived. (I still don't like it much, but if the damage is just $1.5M in cap room rather than $3M, I'll get over it easier.)

[Zonkerbl]

argh, Nate, I'm genuinely curious about your views on the Heinrich trade.

Fine, I'll wade through 37 pages of the Heinrich thread. Hmph.

[Rafael122]

Here's what Chad Ford had to say about the trade in his chat:

Yi - worth a flyer or a waste of a trade exception? I didn't see him play much last year.
Tuesday June 29, 2010 6:20 Dan
6:20 Chad Ford, ESPN Insider: Definitely worth a chance, especially with the Nets essentially paying his salary next year. There were moments when he looked like he could be really good and the Nets essentially gave him away for nothing.

[nate33]

argh, Nate, I'm genuinely curious about your views on the Heinrich trade.

Fine, I'll wade through 37 pages of the Heinrich thread. Hmph.

In a nutshell, I think Hinrich is movable if we so desire. We could trade him to the Lakers for Vujacic and Shannon Brown (both expiring) right now. So when I evaluate the cost of the trade, I don't consider the 2nd year of Hinrich's salary because we don't have to pay it if we don't want to.

Therefore, we spent $9M in cap space, got back $6M in cash and the #17 pick. Effectively, we bought the #17 pick for $3M while getting to rent Hinrich services for free for 4 months until we move him at the Trade Deadline for expirings. That's a great deal.

It's almost like we have a team option on the last year of Hinrich's salary.

[Zonkerbl]

So is it confirmed we got $6 mil in cash and not $3?

[nate33]

So is it confirmed we got $6 mil in cash and not $3?

No. Not confirmed. Even without it, I'm still happy with the deal.

[WizKids]

This question may already be answered somewhere in 20 pages of thread but im not willing to scroll though.

Yi trade is already a done deal. How come the Kirk and Kevin trade has to wait to be official until July 8th?

[nate33]

This question may already be answered somewhere in 20 pages of thread but im not willing to scroll though.

Yi trade is already a done deal. How come the Kirk and Kevin trade has to wait to be official until July 8th?

Technically, the new season hasn't started yet. Until July 1st, we are using last year's salaries and last year's cap room to make transactions. We don't actually have any cap space yet, but we do have two TPE's (worth $4.5M and $6.0M respectively). We used the $4.5M TPE in the Yi trade. We don't have a TPE large enough to facilitate the Hinrich trade so we haven't actually made the deal yet. After July 1st, the 2010/11 salaries will take effect and we will have enough raw cap space to absorb Hinrich's salary.

[jholmbe1]

To all the idiots so quick to roast Ernie for trading Ross for Yi instead of Beasley, you might be wise to not rush to judgment. As has been the case this off season Ernie's moves have looked much better after the dust has settled. The Heat had no interest in dealing the Wizards Beasley because they are shipping him to Toronto as part of a sign and trade. Give these deals at least 48 hours to settle before you all claim that the sky is falling and Ernie is terrible.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl- ... 1207.story