Jan Vesely

[Illuminaire]

Caveat: I was very low on Vesely before the draft. I've come around, mostly because everyone I actually wanted was taken before our pick.

Main Point: Vesely is very weak at certain things we can pick up on easily in box scores or while watching games. This makes him easy to criticize and to whine about. HOWEVER, Vesely appears to also be an impact player in many areas of the game that are more difficult, or merely more time consuming, to similarly define.

He listens to his coach and fills the role assigned to him. He goes hard all the time without stopping. He sets his teammates up without concern for his own stats. He plays extremely effective defense. I feel like that needs to be said twice. Vesely is an extremely effective defender.

That's where I think we may be overlooking his impact. We all wanted a sexier player with the 6th pick, someone who makes all-star teams and drops forty on a whim. Vesely will never be that guy. But he could be our Shane Battier, the glue guy who never quits and contributes on both ends of the court - considering this draft class, that sounds pretty good.

[W. Unseld]

Any rumors about Vesely playing in Europe this season? Given the circumstances I don't see what it would hurt. Then we just beg the coach to have Vesely work on free throws and shooting 24/7 and maybe we get an improved product.

[verbal8]

Caveat: I was very low on Vesely before the draft. I've come around, mostly because everyone I actually wanted was taken before our pick.

I agree the beginning of the draft pretty much went the worst possible way it could for the Wizards.

I mainly have used the Jared Jeffries comparison as a pessimistic outlook on his potential as an NBA player. However if the comparison looks at what Jeffries could have been, it looks a lot better.

However Vesely is still not fully developed as a basketball player, so he has a chance to develop into what Jeffries could have been. For example Jeffries seemed to be developing a 3 point shot in college(71 threes @ 38%), however it was never effective in the pros(70 in his career @ 25%). He also seemed to be a rebounder in college(he may have been playing more in the post). Rebounding wasn't a strong point, which is disappointing for a guy who is 6-11". Vesley may not get 15+ rebounds a game, but he might be a guy who keeps the other team off the boards and makes rebounds easier for his teammates.

Also like Jeffries he was likely the best option in a week draft. It would have been hard to argue that Prince, Boozer or Salmons should have been picked that early. Those are the only guys drafted later to play more minutes.

[Ruzious]

Caveat: I was very low on Vesely before the draft. I've come around, mostly because everyone I actually wanted was taken before our pick.

Main Point: Vesely is very weak at certain things we can pick up on easily in box scores or while watching games. This makes him easy to criticize and to whine about. HOWEVER, Vesely appears to also be an impact player in many areas of the game that are more difficult, or merely more time consuming, to similarly define.

He listens to his coach and fills the role assigned to him. He goes hard all the time without stopping. He sets his teammates up without concern for his own stats. He plays extremely effective defense. I feel like that needs to be said twice. Vesely is an extremely effective defender.

That's where I think we may be overlooking his impact. We all wanted a sexier player with the 6th pick, someone who makes all-star teams and drops forty on a whim. Vesely will never be that guy. But he could be our Shane Battier, the glue guy who never quits and contributes on both ends of the court - considering this draft class, that sounds pretty good.

Why is it that you say he plays extremely effective defense? I've watched instances where he clearly can't stay with Euro wing players who aren't talented enough to play in the NBA, and I've read scouting reports saying opposing teams single him out to isolate him 1 on 1 to take advantage of his poor defense. With Battier - you see him for 1 quarter of pretty much any game he's ever played, and it's obvious to pretty much anyone that he's a great defender. Help me out - give me a reason to believe Vesely is a good defender - much less "an extremely effective defender".

[montestewart]

^

I've typed what Rick Carlisle told me years ago when he was still coaching Detroit, but it's worth repeating. He said, "Anyone can be a good defender in our system if he follows our rules and plays with effort."

In the right system, Vesely has tools (length, speed, athleticism) to contribute to a good defense. Whether he has the bbiq and willingness and whether the Wizards install a successful system is another story. I still know very little about him, but I haven't heard much praise for his defense thus far.

[Zonkerbl]

Why is it that you say he plays extremely effective defense? I've watched instances where he clearly can't stay with Euro wing players who aren't talented enough to play in the NBA, and I've read scouting reports saying opposing teams single him out to isolate him 1 on 1 to take advantage of his poor defense. With Battier - you see him for 1 quarter of pretty much any game he's ever played, and it's obvious to pretty much anyone that he's a great defender. Help me out - give me a reason to believe Vesely is a good defender - much less "an extremely effective defender".

Team defense. They play him one on one because he's so effective on help defense. Play him straight up and he can't come over and help.

Something like that. Dude, we won't know until we see him play year after next. Chillax.

[The Consiglieri]

Well, good grief! Is there anything that Vesely can do well? We've already concluded that he can't shoot, finish, catch, rebound, stay with perimeter players, or bang with post players.

Convince GM's and scouts around the league that he's infinitely better than posters on the wizards realgm forum think.

[Illuminaire]

Help me out - give me a reason to believe Vesely is a good defender - much less "an extremely effective defender".

"According to Synergy Sports, Jan performed very well in iso possessions, where he held his opponents to 36.4% shooting and a third of the iso possessions end in a turnover. "

Help given.

[Ruzious]

Help me out - give me a reason to believe Vesely is a good defender - much less "an extremely effective defender".

"According to Synergy Sports, Jan performed very well in iso possessions, where he held his opponents to 36.4% shooting and a third of the iso possessions end in a turnover. "

Help given.

Much better answer than Zonk's. Thanks - that sounds encouraging.

[closg00]

It's just that for his described skill-set, Vesely was taken way too-high, plenty of guys drafted well after 6 could have given us 12-13PPG + rebounding and better shooting %. Like many, I am very eager to see what all the hype is about.

Well, EG wasn't taking Vesely off of a described skillset. They have been scouting this kid for years, and based on EG's record with Blatche, Young and McGee, who were all better than the choices immediately after them, I tend to trust EG on Vesely over other choices available at 6. Furthermore, the choice was roundly lauded by NBA pundits, and I can't remember a single, "expert", suggesting that another player would have been a better choice.

If we made a mistake, it was in not trading up.

So you are confident that Vesely will be better than the players taken after him? Biyombo, The Morris's, Walker, Jimmer, Knight, Leonard etc?

[DCZards]

So you are confident that Vesely will be better than the players taken after him? Biyombo, The Morris's, Walker, Jimmer, Knight, Leonard etc?

I don't think it matters that much whether or not Vesely will be a "better" player than guys like Walker, Knight and Jimmer. (All of whom who could turn to be very good guards.) The more important question is whether, as a forward, Jan will turn out to be a better fit for the needs of the Zards.

[closg00]

So you are confident that Vesely will be better than the forwards taken after him? Marcus Morris, Kawhi Leonard , Tobias Harris, Juan Johnson, and Jimmy Butler?

I don't think it matters that much whether or not Vesely will be a "better" player than guys like Walker, Knight and Jimmer. (All of whom who could turn to be very good guards.) The more important question is whether, as forward, Jan will turn out to be a better fit for the needs of the Zards.

Fixed

[Ruzious]

So you are confident that Vesely will be better than the forwards taken after him? Marcus Morris, Kawhi Leonard , Tobias Harris, Juan Johnson, and Jimmy Butler?

I don't think it matters that much whether or not Vesely will be a "better" player than guys like Walker, Knight and Jimmer. (All of whom who could turn to be very good guards.) The more important question is whether, as forward, Jan will turn out to be a better fit for the needs of the Zards.

Fixed

Fwiw, if I had stayed at 6 and picked a forward, Marcus Morris would have been my pick. He's a better player and a better fit. It would have been an easy decision.

[closg00]

Agree Ruz, MM is a tough competitor and has a winners mentality. I think he's under-rated.

[theboomking]

So you are confident that Vesely will be better than the players taken after him? Biyombo, The Morris's, Walker, Jimmer, Knight, Leonard etc?

Not as confident about Biyombo, Walker or Knight. Very confident about Markieff(pick 13), Marcus (pick 14), Leonard (pick 15), Jimmer (pick 10), Klay Thompson (pick 11), Jujuan Johnson (pick 27), Tobias Harris (pick 19), and Jimmy Butler (pick 30). Walker and Knight would have been redundant. Biyombo is a bit of a wild card, and also redundant. The Morrises are nothing special IMHO. There are players of their caliber that will be available every year, and ditto Johnson and Harris. Klay Thompson is the wilting flower of Pac 10 play, so no thank you there. Jimmer has great range, but I don't like him as an efficient offensive player, or as a 2 way player, or as a 4 year senior. How good would a lot of players look in college in their 4th year.

The fact of the matter is, and I really wanted us to move up instead of choosing Jan, that EG has scouted the kid for 2 years, and loved him last year as well. Other teams in the top 6 were also apparently high on him, as he was rumored to have worked out for multiple top 5 teams. There is a reason that so many of the other picks listed above fell. They just weren't that highly regarded, even in a very weak draft.

Vesely is not an overly skilled offensive player. He isn't a post player. He isn't a great shooter. Those were all things I wanted in our draft pick. Vesely is however a rare physical specimen, with center length at SF, and incredible leaping ability and speed. I wish we had a max vert reach for him, because I suspect it would be extraordinary. Vesely also seems to be a tough SOB, playing with teeth knocked out during in game fights, and very intense on the court. As much as I like any of those above characteristics, I really like that Vesely has been one of the top players on a team that has won multiple club championships in a league that is reported to be tougher than the NCAA.

Also, how many of us would have questioned the Blatche and Young and McGee picks at the time they were made. As much as those three players have been knuckleheads, for where they were chosen, they have been extraordinary values, and I think we would have been hard pressed to do better. Sure, we missed on DeJuan Blair. So did every other team with a first round pick in that draft. As much as Blair would have been a steal in the second round, I can't shed too many tears about missing on a guys with bone on bone knee arthritis in both knees and no ACL's. Blair was a good pick for a team with a chance of winning during Blair's rookie contract. By the time we are good, I doubt Blar will have anything significant left in his tank.

For the Wizards, I think Vesely was a solid choice. We might have missed on Biyombo, but will only really regret that if Biyombo becomes better than McGee. I also think that we might have missed out on Faried, but I wouldn't have picked him at #6.


And, FWIW, I liked Singleton better than most of the players listed above, and think he may be better than Kawhi, and will be better than the Morris brothers.

[TGW]

I don't think it matters that much whether or not Vesely will be a "better" player than guys like Walker, Knight and Jimmer. (All of whom who could turn to be very good guards.) The more important question is whether, as forward, Jan will turn out to be a better fit for the needs of the Zards.

Fixed

Fwiw, if I had stayed at 6 and picked a forward, Marcus Morris would have been my pick. He's a better player and a better fit. It would have been an easy decision.

Same here. Although I would have traded down and got him in the 10-12 range.

The only bit of satisfaction I get out of the drafting of Vesely is that they are going to develop him as a power forward, so that means he's going to eventually put Blatche on the bench or in another uniform.

[nate33]

I still refuse to believe that Vesely can be so bad when many GM's, draft gurus and beat writers have such a high opinion of him. If you ask the people on this board, Vesely should have gone in the 15-20 range, yet nobody in the media batted an eye when the Wizards drafted him 6th. Heck, Chad Ford thought we had perhaps the best draft of all the teams in the league.

It is my understanding that Vesely was considered a very good player in his league, roughly on par with a veteran Josh Childress. If we drafted a guy as good as a veteran Josh Childress (while being just 21 and not yet filled out into his frame), then that's really a pretty good pick in this lousy draft.

[DCZards]

I still refuse to believe that Vesely can be so bad when many GM's, draft gurus and beat writers have such a high opinion of him. If you ask the people on this board, Vesely should have gone in the 15-20 range, yet nobody in the media batted an eye when the Wizards drafted him 6th. Heck, Chad Ford thought we had perhaps the best draft of all the teams in the league.

It is my understanding that Vesely was considered a very good player in his league, roughly on par with a veteran Josh Childress. If we drafted a guy as good as a veteran Josh Childress (while being just 21 and not yet filled out into his frame), then that's really a pretty good pick in this lousy draft.

+1

This skepticism about Jan and the second-guessing of EG for drafting him is coming from posters on this board who have never really seen him play--other than video highlights. And they have a right to their opinions.

Personally, I'm more inclined to embrace the opinion of EG and the Zards scout, who have actually seen him play upclose and personal, and the GMs, NBA writers and others who, I'm guessing, know far more about Jan--his strenghts and weaknesses--than those of us on this message board.

[TGW]

I still refuse to believe that Vesely can be so bad when many GM's, draft gurus and beat writers have such a high opinion of him. If you ask the people on this board, Vesely should have gone in the 15-20 range, yet nobody in the media batted an eye when the Wizards drafted him 6th. Heck, Chad Ford thought we had perhaps the best draft of all the teams in the league.

It is my understanding that Vesely was considered a very good player in his league, roughly on par with a veteran Josh Childress. If we drafted a guy as good as a veteran Josh Childress (while being just 21 and not yet filled out into his frame), then that's really a pretty good pick in this lousy draft.

+1

This skepticism about Jan and the second-guessing of EG for drafting him is coming from posters on this board who have never really seen him play--other than video highlights. And they have a right to their opinions.

Personally, I'm more inclined to embrace the opinion of EG and the Zards scout, who have actually seen him play upclose and personal, and the GMs, NBA writers and others who, I'm guessing, know far more about Jan--his strenghts and weaknesses--than those of us on this message board.

Oh please. This is the same GM/scouting department who saw Oleksey Pecherov up close and personal, and still drafted him. Due diligence doesn't mean jack if you don't know how to evaluate talent. EG is average at best when it comes to talent evaluation -- his track record proves that. In other words, I don't give a flying crap what analysts say...Vesely's performance these past 2 years have been underwhelming, and he clearly has several glaring weaknesses that he might never overcome.

[nate33]

To be fair, TGW, EG has only whiffed once in the first round of the draft: Pecherov. His track record picking for the Wizards follows:

2010
Wall (a no brainer)
Seraphin - jury is out, but nobody clearly better was taken later
Booker - ranks 5th in his draft class going by PER, despite being selected 29th

2009
Traded pick. (I'm not saying EG is smart at trades, just at picks)

2008
McGee - a great pick at #18. The only guy drafted later who is better is Ibaka.

2007
Young - a good pick at #16. A couple of decent players taken 8 or so picks later (Chandler, Brooks, Afflalo) but nobody clearly better, and certainly nobody better on the board near Nick's general draft range.

2006
Pecherov - Ugh. Though it was a terrible draft class with Rondo, Lowry, and Millsap as the only guys drafted later who panned out to be starters - and all were taken much later than Pecherov (meaning they were sleepers that most GM's missed).

2005
No pick (relic from Haywood trade). Our 2nd round pick was Blatche, who panned out to be better than every non-lotto pick except Granger, M.Ellis and David Lee (all taken before Blatche).

2004
Traded pick for Jamison