"Linning" at The Great Wall Of China Town 2/8/12 7pm NBATV

[JonathanJoseph]

The parts of the game that John Wall doesn't have are not things you learn. This is what I mean about Lin, said by others.

Mike D’Antoni said Jeremy Lin has an innate ability to control the flow of the game.

“He has a pace to his game,” D’Antoni said. “First of all, he has real good speed, he gets in the lane, he gets by people, he has a sense of setting the guy up, a sense of where the openings are. It’s hard to teach. Some guys have it.”

Steve Novak, who played for the Spurs last season, compared Lin to Tony Parker.

Novak said, “Getting the defense on its heels and at a disadvantage is what he does best. I played with Tony Parker last year and he had the same skill, creating chaos on defense. It’s where all the open shots come from.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1lreFj5r1

+1000

And most importantly, I'll repost this part for emphasis.

The parts of the game that John Wall doesn't have are not things you learn

And that is the unfortunate bottom line for me. I wish it weren't so and believing that doesn't have anything to do with an agenda or Gilbert Arenas or any other conspiracy theory.

It's D'antoni and Novak's comments that put a serious hole in the "John Wall needs better talent" argument. They said, quite clearly, that Lin is getting better looks for the same players and that it's something you cannot teach.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

JJ might still be holding the flame for Arenas, I don't want to address that.

Dat2U, I vividly remember posting that the Wizards were taking serious risks resigning an injured Arenas. I said let him and Jamison walk because Arenas was a medical risk, and neither he nor Jamison played good defense. You and nate and the vast majority told me the Wizards couldn't do what I said they should do. I don't know if you specifically said Gil would be healthy (I know nate did say Gil would be healthy), but I do know you said the Wizards had to have Gilbert.

I liked Gil's game when he was healthy, but I saw he CHOSE to opt out and HE, UNFORTUNATELY WAS INJURED. Not his fault. I was ostracized, criticized, and ridiculed for pointing out that Gil basically came back right before the playoffs and hurt the team in the playoffs. EJ rode him 40 mins like he was healthy, just ignoring team chemistry.

When all was said and done, I thought the guy just came back because he was in a contract year and it was really selfish of him to do that, and then demand the Wizards resign him and Jamison.

I only wanted Gilbert for less than $105M. Sorry for the rant, but Dat2U, you and almost everybody else loved Gil. I saw the business side and figured his body was breaking down and he was trying to make bank.

I was right.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall can have all the talent in the world.

Lin can be a better PG because he can do things Wall cannot do ... yet.

Personally, I look forward to the next few years of their head-to-head matchups. Lin is going to make Wall better, because Wall is fired up to beat Lin.

[JonathanJoseph]

JJ might still be holding the flame for Arenas, I don't want to address that.

I still don't have any idea how that would have any impact on the current discussion.

If I were to convince everyone on Realgm/wizards that Wall is a bust is that going to heal Arenas' knee and repair his reputation? What does one have to do with the other? I really have no idea.

If there is substantive opposition to my opinion, great. Say so. But y'all should probably check the bizarre conspiracy theory at the door already.

[montestewart]

I also agree that if Wall can be a Gary Payton quality player, that's pretty darned good. It's a step short of what people think of as a franchise player or a superstar, but GP was a great player on some great teams. You can go to war with a GP, and I think we can go to war with John Wall.

I don't know what the superstar cutoff is, but if Wall turns out to be on the level of Payton, that was a great pick. Over a ten year stretch, Payton averaged over 11 WS per year, was all-defense 1st team 9 times, all NBA 1st or second team nine times, an all-star nine times, and top-ten in MVP voting eight times. Based on that, he was a top-ten player for ten years, and at the tail end of that stretch (at age 34), he was considered valuable enough to get a prime Ray Allen in trade. If only Wall could fall short of expectations like that.

PS: Lin is a pretty exciting player. Maybe the buzz dies down a little after the league figures him out, but he'll still be good. He has a mature game, and without Stoudemire and Anthony, his strengths lend themselves to the smart role players on the Knicks roster (Chandler, Fields) and D'Antoni's system gives Novak and Shumpert opportunities they wouldn't have were the superstars in there. I plan on trying to catch more Knicks games to see if this is a real turnaround for them. No particular shame for Wall, because Lin is good. Wall better come prepared next time, but he played quite well for much of the game.

[ErikChowbay023]

I distinctly remember two years ago Darren Collison breaking out when Chris Paul got hurt. Collison started I think 37 games that year and was putting up crazy numbers. All the talk started, "Hornets are better without Paul", "The Hornets need to trade Paul for talent" so on and so forth. Darren Collison is a solid player, who had a great stretch of games in a great system, with some pretty good talent, but to have ever thought that he was a better player than Chris Paul is crazy. Collison is now with the Pacers and you can now see, the hype and production has died down a bit. So much of a players success is predicated on the system they play in and talent that surrounds them.

The fact that Wall can produce what he does, on a team like this, shows how much talent he has. Put him in D`Antoni`s system, or a system similar to the Celtics and there is no doubt in my mind that he would average 13 or 14 assists per game. I pray that we somehow land Sloan in the off-season,then we would see Wall really flourish. Now, Wall does have his flaws, don`t get me wrong, he has to continue to work on his jumper and his handle, but we have yet to really see how good his p&r game is. We really have never run it since he has been here, so until that time, I suggest we back off on the "he doesn`t have that wiggle to his game" statements, because until we put him in a system that allows him to wiggle we can`t fairly judge him.

So much of the Wizards and Wall`s problems are based on the system they play in. I mean our offense has no sense of direction or cohesion. I never seen a team run a top of the key pick and roll with a wing player free throw line extended, putting his defender in perfect help position , so that when the PG attempts to turn the corner, all he can do, is turn back and swing the ball in the opposite direction. This is how 90% of our sets turn out. It`s frustrating like hell to watch. I just wish we could play some basic 101 basketball for a change. Everything looks so complex and discombobulated for no reason at all, with absolutely no purpose. To sum it up, our roster + the system, is liking trying to fit a hexagon peg into a round hole.

[ErikChowbay023]

Oh and about Lin, he played against the Wizards tonight, who play the worst p&r defense I have ever seen.

Simply, Lin is thriving because of the system he plays in, but once the scouting report is out on him, and Stat and Melo come back, I think the production and the hype will die down tremendously. Lin has flaws in his game, teams didn`t cut him for no reason at all. They will start to show soon, and once they do, he will be lumped into the same category Rubio is in now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

JJ might still be holding the flame for Arenas, I don't want to address that.

I still don't have any idea how that would have any impact on the current discussion.

If I were to convince everyone on Realgm/wizards that Wall is a bust is that going to heal Arenas' knee and repair his reputation? What does one have to do with the other? I really have no idea.

If there is substantive opposition to my opinion, great. Say so. But y'all should probably check the bizarre conspiracy theory at the door already.

Sorry I went there, JJ.

I miss Gilbert's shooting ability. I am sorry that Gilbert went out the way he did. i find it ironic he is auditioning for jobs, when he'd be the ideal SG for Wall if Gilbert were healthy enough.

Gilbert's actions didn't have to be handled the way they were. Too bad he did not do well in Orlando. I hope he succeeds in his next endeavor.

[JonathanJoseph]

I distinctly remember two years ago Darren Collison breaking out when Chris Paul got hurt. Collison started I think 37 games that year and was putting up crazy numbers. All the talk started, "Hornets are better without Paul", "The Hornets need to trade Paul for talent" so on and so forth. Darren Collison is a solid player, who had a great stretch of games in a great system, with some pretty good talent, but to have ever thought that he was a better player than Chris Paul is crazy. Collison is now with the Pacers and you can now see, the hype and production has died down a bit. So much of a players success is predicated on the system they play in and talent that surrounds them.

The fact that Wall can produce what he does, on a team like this, shows how much talent he has. Put him in D`Antoni`s system, or a system similar to the Celtics and there is no doubt in my mind that he would average 13 or 14 assists per game. I pray that we somehow land Sloan in the off-season,then we would see Wall really flourish. Now, Wall does have his flaws, don`t get me wrong, he has to continue to work on his jumper and his handle, but we have yet to really see how good his p&r game is. We really have never run it since he has been here, so until that time, I suggest we back off on the "he doesn`t have that wiggle to his game" statements, because until we put him in a system that allows him to wiggle we can`t fairly judge him.

So much of the Wizards and Wall`s problems are based on the system they play in. I mean our offense has no sense of direction or cohesion. I never seen a team run a top of the key pick and roll with a wing player free throw line extended, putting his defender in perfect help position , so that when the PG attempts to turn the corner, all he can do, is turn back and swing the ball in the opposite direction. This is how 90% of our sets turn out. It`s frustrating like hell to watch. I just wish we could play some basic 101 basketball for a change. Everything looks so complex and discombobulated for no reason at all, with absolutely no purpose. To sum it up, our roster + the system, is liking trying to fit a hexagon peg into a round hole.

All I'm suggesting is that maybe it's not the system, it's the player(s) running the system. Flip Saunders has made plenty of NBA players look good in his system and Randy Whitman has been running dead simple PnR's and simplified the offense considerably.

The Knicks looked awfully incoherent on offense (and lost 11 of 13) until Lin took over.

[JonathanJoseph]

JJ might still be holding the flame for Arenas, I don't want to address that.

I still don't have any idea how that would have any impact on the current discussion.

If I were to convince everyone on Realgm/wizards that Wall is a bust is that going to heal Arenas' knee and repair his reputation? What does one have to do with the other? I really have no idea.

If there is substantive opposition to my opinion, great. Say so. But y'all should probably check the bizarre conspiracy theory at the door already.

Sorry I went there, JJ.

I miss Gilbert's shooting ability. I am sorry that Gilbert went out the way he did. i find it ironic he is auditioning for jobs, when he'd be the ideal SG for Wall if Gilbert were healthy enough.

Gilbert's actions didn't have to be handled the way they were. Too bad he did not do well in Orlando. I hope he succeeds in his next endeavor.

That's ok. I don't mind any comments that aren't blatant name calling or something similar.

[closg00]

The Knicks looked awfully incoherent on offense (and lost 11 of 13) until Lin took over.

+1 Lin probably saved the Knicks season.

[McGully Culkin]

The Knicks looked awfully incoherent on offense (and lost 11 of 13) until Lin took over.

+1 Lin probably saved the Knicks season.

No joke, the cohesion will probably be all messed up once Melo returns. I think between him and STAT, he's the guy that the Knicks should explore moving.

I've given up on Javale. I've defended him till I was blue in the face, but I can't do it anymore. Ever since his mom popped off at the mouth and he didn't get his extension, something has been off with him. I mean, he started the year off with so much promise but dude just looks COMPLETELY inept out there. Inexcusably inept. You give a guy like Wall someone at the 5 who is 1/2 way competent in defending/executing the PnR, things would improve drastically. Until that happens, it's going to be more of the same.

I'm disgusted by the roster make up. That falls on EG. Just look at the bodies that we have. Outside of Wall (possibly Booker), there is NO ONE that should be on this team in the 2012-13 season. Yes, there are athletes, but there is a severe lack of b-ball IQ or anyone on this team who has even tasted success on an NBA roster. THAT'S a problem. EG needs to do something now to shake things up. I'm worried about two things:

1) Losing even more fans. Folks aren't dumb. They're not going to sit through a "rebuild" if they don't have faith in the direction of the team. Right now, it's extremely bleak.

2) Losing Wall. Dude has been a winner on every level. If things don't improve, he'll probably be as good as gone when the time comes for his rookie deal to expire. I wouldn't be mad at all if he chooses to do so. We have a very small window of opportunity with Wall here on the roster. That window closes little by little with each day.

Again, EG needs to shake things up right now. Explore any sort of trade opportunity that can potentially give this team and the fanbase a shot in the arm. Give people a reason to be excited about Wizards basketball going forward. Right now, it's a sad situation.

*Also...Steve Nash never averaged 13/14 assists in a Mike D'Antoni system but if John Wall was in it, he would? C'mon now....SMH. Putting the cart before the horse.

[Ruzious]

I'm still not understanding how all you pysch majors are figuring this all out.

When everyone except you has figured it out, maybe it's time to do what Michael Jackson said and look at the man in the mirror.

[ST21]

wow they are hyping lin and this game up like crazy on espn this morning.

amazing how such a mediocre player is getting this much hype. dude had 23 & 10 and they are acting like he scored 40 and 10

[closg00]

After Lin finished with 23 points and a career-high 10 assists, Wizards Coach Randy Wittman had to absorb an equally painful text message from his son, Ryan, who played against Lin for four years in the Ivy League at Cornell.

“He told me that they did a much better job guarding him than we did tonight,” Wittman said with an uncomfortable chuckle. “Makes Dad feel good.”

Ouch

[McGully Culkin]

wow they are hyping lin and this game up like crazy on espn this morning.

amazing how such a mediocre player is getting this much hype. dude had 23 & 10 and they are acting like he scored 40 and 10

Well, he did have a good game. He's done a fantastic job as a starter and deserves the praise (as of now). No need to go over his story, because it's been talked about ad-nauseum, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that credit isn't due for Lin. He's been excellent at the helm as a starter. I'll be curious to see how he performs vs. a Mike Brown defense on Friday vs. the Lakers.

[Ruzious]

[q
But go ahead, continue to ignore all the red flags, and enjoy Cousins' moment in the sun.

My question is how long does it last?

And again, it doesn't surprise me you like Lin more than Wall after 3 games and he's suddenly a natural born leader to you. Is it bias? Is it being caught up in the moment? Probably a little bit of both. But Like I told sfam two weeks ago after Vesely's masterful 6 & 6 performance in 19 minutes, don't start saying I told you so just yet because the book isn't finished yet. Your on chapter 3 of a War & Peace sized novel so there's so much more of the story that is yet to unfold.

Lets see how Lin is doing two weeks from now and then revisit.

Here is the thing, Dat. It was about ability with Cousins. He lost a lot of weight and came to camp in much better shape, and that is without team supervision during the lockout. I remember Cousins during the lockout saying how badly he needed to play to see if he improved. His shooting and rebounding have gotten much better. His rebounding improvement is unprecedented. A lot of people in this forum said he wouldn't do well in the NBA because he couldn't play a power game against physically stronger players. He doesn't have much athleticism. So, I say there were questions about his ability.

On how long it lasts, that is a great question, Dat. I think he is going to be high maintenance and will very likely have some serious outbursts during the course of his entire NBA career. I believe he is bipolar and I know how hard that is to manage. Unlike myself, I don't know what kind of core values that kid has. I don't know what regimen he uses to stay leveled off.

This is my answer, Dat: Just as there are divas in music who are high maintenance, they are pampered because they can sing. As long as DeMarcus is beasting and his team is competive, they will tolerate him. DeMarcus could get therapy and actually mellow out a great deal. If he has an outburst it depends who is around him. The right people can help the dude.

Dennis Rodman once had a gun to his head during his NBA career. Yet, he played through. Phil Jackson and his teammates were mature. They didn't care about that dudes hair, or his wedding dress, or his lifestyle. Ron Artest sure ended up saving the Lakers in their last championship.

A guy like DeMarcus can be worth it, but there are definitely risks involved.

What I KNOW is he's a reliably terrific rebounder. Cousins alone would ratchet up the intensity and rebounding of the Wizards and this team would be way better. How long will he last? I don't know.

I'll put it this way - I'm glad I have Cousins on my fantasy team, and I think the guy that just picked up Lin is going to end up cutting him before the season ends.

I gotta stay on CCJ's side with Cousins. People were down on his playing - not just his attitude. He was compared in this forum mainly to Blatche, and he's already a better player than Blatche ever was and really doesn't have the laziness issues that Blatche has/had. He's still not an outstanding player, but he's showing a lot of improvement that folks were doubtful about. Will he have future incidents of immaturity? Probably. But as long as he takes care of his body - which he has done - he'll be fine.

[Ruzious]

After Lin finished with 23 points and a career-high 10 assists, Wizards Coach Randy Wittman had to absorb an equally painful text message from his son, Ryan, who played against Lin for four years in the Ivy League at Cornell.

“He told me that they did a much better job guarding him than we did tonight,” Wittman said with an uncomfortable chuckle. “Makes Dad feel good.”

Ouch

Now Wittman has to look at the man in the mirror.

[fishercob]

After Lin finished with 23 points and a career-high 10 assists, Wizards Coach Randy Wittman had to absorb an equally painful text message from his son, Ryan, who played against Lin for four years in the Ivy League at Cornell.

“He told me that they did a much better job guarding him than we did tonight,” Wittman said with an uncomfortable chuckle. “Makes Dad feel good.”

Ouch

Now Wittman has to look at the man in the mirror.

Does he? Or should he look at the man upstairs (and I'm not talking about the Lawd)? The Wizards have been bad, really bad, or horrible defensively for Grunfeld's entire tenure. Ernie has failed to acquire players with either the requisite smarts or desire to play good NBA defense. From the "good old" days of Arenas and Jamison to McGee, Blatche, Young, Pecherov, Seraphin, et al, Ernie has ostensibly ignored defense or doesn't understand what makes a credible defensive player. For years in press conferences he's talked about "versatility" -- Miller, Foye, Vesely, Booker, etc -- and our personnel's ability to play and guard multiple spots on the floor. What good is being bad at multiple things?

[theboomking]

RealGM. The only place where a guy puts up 29 points, 6 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 1 rebound and one turnover on 12/21 shooting and is indicted based on the performance. You guys are F****** ridiculous.

Lin was great. He is playing great right now, and it is a good story, and I am rooting for him. He put up 23 points, 10 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, and 2 turnovers on 9/14 shooting. Great game. I'd love to have Lin on the Wizards, but if you guys think NY wouldn't trade Lin, picks and players for Wall, you're smoking.

Booker/Vesely/Evans/Young/Wall is just not a good lineup. What can you say? The one drive Lin had, where he waltzed uncontested into the lane, it looked like none of the wizards knew who was supposed to rotate.

That play was a GD embarassment. I only caught the highlights, but it looked to me like Evans saw Lin driving from the top of the key, started to rotate, and just stopped. The Wizards are the worst team in the league at protecting the paint. Just embarassing.

LOL at the people that think Lin is better than Wall. Wall would be able to dominate every game too if we ran the PNR as much as the Knicks.

Wall would average 40 a night against the Wizards, playing for D'Antoni.