Bradley Beal

[DMVleGeND]

Beal is not the one to do too much. He's the antithesis of Jordan Crawford -- doesn't overdribble, doesn't force many shots, just a much more economical player, but he's not a dynamic player at all. With Beal, you get a player that's smart and does everything at a solid level, but doesn't do anything great.

[Zonkerbl]

Like Joe Dumars?

Wow, they're even the same height.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He looks like he is going to be one of those crafty types who is good with the ball fakes right out of the gate. Looks like he will be efficient in his movement. Someone who plays under control and who won't force things but who is savvy enough to move the defender to set up his shot. Already working on step backs and counter moves. Lots of work with his left hand. What didn't he show in that video. That was amazing.

Kind of the opposite of who Wall was when he got here. Wall was all about his speed which was one speed. Go really fast.

Beal seems to be working on a vet game right out of the gate. It my not be eye popping or maybe it will be but I think it will be efficient. I don't think he will be driving as a core part of his game like Harden, but I see everything else in his game.

^
I kinda have the opposite take. Seeing Beal work on having a complete game is exciting, but I also think he might try to do too much shot creation as a rookie and end up being relatively inefficient. Don't get me wrong, in the long run, it'll be good for him. But in the short run, not so much. It's easier for a rookie to be an effective catch-and-shoot role player (like Landry Fields or Kawhi Leonard) than it is for him to be a dynamic scorer and creator.

That isn't the opposite take. Not sure why you think it is. I get the sense you actually look for things to disagree with me about even when there is nothing there.

Give Nate more credit. He's not trying to find reasons to disagree. He simply reads your posts, which is something you apparently don't do.

Me, I'm just looking for things to disagree with.

Fortunately, I'm not in a public place, like I was when I came across Chocolate Salty Balls, monte.

No embarrassing, laughing-out-loud outburst possible in the privacy of my own home. My neighbors already know and they seem to understand.

FWIW, I will say I think I see where nate is coming from in being concerned Beal will force things. I think that could happen, particularly if there is no other volume scorer on the court. He is the SG who will be required to … shoot. If Wall is not an outside threat, and if Ariza/Webster/Singleton are not go to guys, Beal when in games could be forced to shoot more than he would like.

OTOH, hands, I see Beal as a modest player. I don't see him having the Jordan Crawford gene at all. Beal will probably error on the side of passivity and not forcing offense. I think if he's not efficient it won't be because he is forcing things. NBA defenders are longer, quicker, and better than what Bradley Beal faced in the NCAAs. He could struggle, especially early on.

My hope is that Beal is a strong kid with a good to excellent handle for a SG. I think he's going to be able to penetrate and I think with a step back move and also the crossover dribble, he's not going to have much trouble getting his shot off.

No way he's as inefficient as Crawford. IMO Beal is going to be a better NBA player than John Wall. Give it 2-3 years, but I think Beal will be a stud player.

[Ruzious]

Beal is not the one to do too much. He's the antithesis of Jordan Crawford -- doesn't overdribble, doesn't force many shots, just a much more economical player, but he's not a dynamic player at all. With Beal, you get a player that's smart and does everything at a solid level, but doesn't do anything great.

I'm worried that he'll try to emulate Crawford. Crawford - likely being in front of him on the depth chart - might end up being a mentor of sorts for him - and that's probably not a good thing. He's going to see Crawford's poor decision-making has been rewarded with a starting job. That's a bad lesson for Beal.

[DCZards]

I don't see there being much of chance of Beal emulating Crawford's bad habits. Bradley comes across as a mature, high bball IQ kid. I suspect that he'll pay far more attention to what his coaches and vets like Nene and Okafor have to say than he will to what Crawford does or does not do.

ccj, as far as Beal being better than Wall. As a Zards fan it really doesn't matter to me which one is better. What matters is how well they play as a tandem. I think they have the potential to someday be a very special backcourt duo.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Maybe you are correct, DCZ. I hope so.

I believe it is a safe bet to say Wall and Beal have the potential to be special together. This was the first draft I can remember in a while where I didn't have any bad feelings at all about the top pick. I thought they might have selected Lillard, but that would have necessitated moving Wall, which wasn't going to happen. I feel Lamb might be a better scorer than Beal, but Beal is a strong player in other areas, as well as being mentally tougher by far.

I've got few bad feelings about Beal, other than I think he's going to take about 2 1/2 years to hit his stride as a player.

Wall's future IMO is tied to the wins and losses of the Wizards. John is, IMO, ever-so-slightly better than average but no superstar. If this team loses far more than anticipated, I think he's the one who will rightfully catch heat. I do not see him having a 2 1/2 year window to impress. He's got to be good THIS season, or the Wizards are going to fail miserably

I am less confident in Wall than I am in Beal. Hopefully, I am wrong. This time I really could be. Wall might make the leap.

[hands11]

If you think he will try to do to much and be Crawfordish, present some evidence to support that. Nothing I see from his history or his personality supports that worry.

If you think Beal will be efficient and only shoot open shots, rebound and defend, then YOU support it...

The point is, neither of us can support any of our statements because Beal hasn't played a minute in the NBA. My "evidence" is in the training videos where I see him trying a lot of step-backs, ball fakes, spin moves, etc. which look to be the type of shots you attempt while being closely guarded. Obviously, that's not much to go on because it's just one video which is trying to capture the more interesting parts of his workout. A video of him shooting 500 catch-and-shoot jumpers from the corner wouldn't be very fun to watch.

My evidence is his history when added to his last team and all the interviews I have seen that say he is not that kind of person.

I am glad he is practicing everything. At some point in a game, all of that will come in handy. But it won't be his calling card out of the gate. This kid is 100% coachable, smart, mature and a team player.

[hands11]

Beal is not the one to do too much. He's the antithesis of Jordan Crawford -- doesn't overdribble, doesn't force many shots, just a much more economical player, but he's not a dynamic player at all. With Beal, you get a player that's smart and does everything at a solid level, but doesn't do anything great.

Sounds pretty much exactly like I was saying that someone disagreed with 100%. As in the exact opposite.

I have money I would put down that says we are right.

As for what I saw him practicing, it was the catch, pump fake, step back stuff and the endurance stuff that he will be using most this year. Yes, players are quicker and taller. That is where that stuff is going to come into play. That stuff he was practicing in the post is most likely no happening. Good stuff to practice so you have a feel around the rim but that is not were he is going to be living. He will be on the perimeter.

The endurance stuff will come into play when playing defense and on breaks. The kid has a motor. That dunk practice stuff was insane. He went for like 10-12 dunks in a row going from side to side. That takes a lot of endurance to do that. And I loved the work he put in ball handling with someone pushing on him or trying to disrupt his dribble. Good stuff. Ball handling needs to be second nature for him. I don't want him spending any time worrying about his handles. He should be looking at the court. I expect at some point he will help bring the ball up court.

It isn't often I get excited about a rookie. Few come in and play effectively. But I like Beals changes to do it. He is coming to a team where he doesn't have to do to much which is good. Randy will define his role and Beal will follow Randys instructions. You can count on that. If he can handle the basics well, Randy will ramp him up to the next level.

[verbal8]

Wall's future IMO is tied to the wins and losses of the Wizards. John is, IMO, ever-so-slightly better than average but no superstar. If this team loses far more than anticipated, I think he's the one who will rightfully catch heat. I do not see him having a 2 1/2 year window to impress. He's got to be good THIS season, or the Wizards are going to fail miserably

I am less confident in Wall than I am in Beal. Hopefully, I am wrong. This time I really could be. Wall might make the leap.

I think the Wizards are in for 2 years built around Wall. I think last season very slightly above average would be a good description of Wall. The only significant advantage of the moves this season are they should identify whether John Wall is on the path to be a legit star. If he is, he should be able to improve the team.

[Ruzious]

I don't see there being much of chance of Beal emulating Crawford's bad habits. Bradley comes across as a mature, high bball IQ kid. I suspect that he'll pay far more attention to what his coaches and vets like Nene and Okafor have to say than he will to what Crawford does or does not do.

ccj, as far as Beal being better than Wall. As a Zards fan it really doesn't matter to me which one is better. What matters is how well they play as a tandem. I think they have the potential to someday be a very special backcourt duo.

His coaches are the ones likely playing him behind Crawford. If they start him over Crawford, that'll be a different story, and hopefully that happens quickly. As far as what veteran centers say vs what the guy in front of him actually does, words don't speak louder than actions - especially words from players who play a completely different position. It doesn't make sense to believe that veteran centers are going to mentor a shooting guard.

[DCZards]

^^^^I have confidence in Beal's judgement and coachability, as well as his ability to decide which teammates to listen to and emulate, regardless of the position they play.

[fishercob]

I don't see there being much of chance of Beal emulating Crawford's bad habits. Bradley comes across as a mature, high bball IQ kid. I suspect that he'll pay far more attention to what his coaches and vets like Nene and Okafor have to say than he will to what Crawford does or does not do.

ccj, as far as Beal being better than Wall. As a Zards fan it really doesn't matter to me which one is better. What matters is how well they play as a tandem. I think they have the potential to someday be a very special backcourt duo.

His coaches are the ones likely playing him behind Crawford. If they start him over Crawford, that'll be a different story, and hopefully that happens quickly. As far as what veteran centers say vs what the guy in front of him actually does, words don't speak louder than actions - especially words from players who play a completely different position. It doesn't make sense to believe that veteran centers are going to mentor a shooting guard.

This touches on a bizarre conventional wisdom about sports mentors. I really can't think of many examples of players who were mentored by guys playing in front of them. WHomever the starter is focuses on his own performance. He's not a coach. Tom Brady didn;t become great because Drew Bledsoe mentored him. Playing behind MJ didn't make Pete Myers an MJ-like player, even within his own talent level. I just think this whole meme is mostly myth.

Anyone can be a mentor from the standpoint of teaching a guy how to be a hard worker, good teammate, overall professional etc. Things like taking care of one's body, body work, film work, etc. That can be taught by example to the extent that it want s to be learned; it all depends on what the mentee is open to.

[Ruzious]

I don't see there being much of chance of Beal emulating Crawford's bad habits. Bradley comes across as a mature, high bball IQ kid. I suspect that he'll pay far more attention to what his coaches and vets like Nene and Okafor have to say than he will to what Crawford does or does not do.

ccj, as far as Beal being better than Wall. As a Zards fan it really doesn't matter to me which one is better. What matters is how well they play as a tandem. I think they have the potential to someday be a very special backcourt duo.

His coaches are the ones likely playing him behind Crawford. If they start him over Crawford, that'll be a different story, and hopefully that happens quickly. As far as what veteran centers say vs what the guy in front of him actually does, words don't speak louder than actions - especially words from players who play a completely different position. It doesn't make sense to believe that veteran centers are going to mentor a shooting guard.

This touches on a bizarre conventional wisdom about sports mentors. I really can't think of many examples of players who were mentored by guys playing in front of them. WHomever the starter is focuses on his own performance. He's not a coach. Tom Brady didn;t become great because Drew Bledsoe mentored him. Playing behind MJ didn't make Pete Myers an MJ-like player, even within his own talent level. I just think this whole meme is mostly myth.

Anyone can be a mentor from the standpoint of teaching a guy how to be a hard worker, good teammate, overall professional etc. Things like taking care of one's body, body work, film work, etc. That can be taught by example to the extent that it want s to be learned; it all depends on what the mentee is open to.

Bizarre conventional wisdom? You honestly don't think players learn from the players in front of them? When I'm talking about mentoring in this case, I'm talking about who they learn how to play from - not who they learn workout skills, taking care of one's body, etc. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should have spelled it out more. He's a 19 year old unfinished product who's going to be affected by his teammates - one way or another.

Bringing up all-time greats like Brady and MJ... I'm guessing they'd probably develop no matter who's in front of them and came into their leagues a bit older, but considereing Brady was a 6th round pick, maybe Bledsoe had a major effect - I'm not going to pretend I know... We're not talking about players who are arguably the greatest of all time in their sport. We were talking about Beal.

[verbal8]

Bringing up all-time greats like Brady and MJ... I'm guessing they'd probably develop no matter who's in front of them and came into their leagues a bit older, but considereing Brady was a 6th round pick, maybe Bledsoe had a major effect - I'm not going to pretend I know... We're not talking about players who are arguably the greatest of all time in their sport. We were talking about Beal.

I think he was saying it is the other way around. That the all time greats don't seem to have great "protegees".

[DCZards]

Bizarre conventional wisdom? You honestly don't think players learn from the players in front of them? When I'm talking about mentoring in this case, I'm talking about who they learn how to play from - not who they learn workout skills, taking care of one's body, etc. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should have spelled it out more. He's a 19 year old unfinished product who's going to be affected by his teammates - one way or another.

A 19 year old who is immature and lacking in self-discipline and outside guidance may adopt some of the bad playing habits of someone like Crawford. However, based on what I've heard from Beal and read about him as well the family infrastructure he has around him, I don't see him fitting that description.

[Ruzious]

Bizarre conventional wisdom? You honestly don't think players learn from the players in front of them? When I'm talking about mentoring in this case, I'm talking about who they learn how to play from - not who they learn workout skills, taking care of one's body, etc. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should have spelled it out more. He's a 19 year old unfinished product who's going to be affected by his teammates - one way or another.

A 19 year old who is immature and lacking in self-discipline and outside guidance may adopt some of the bad playing habits of someone like Crawford. However, based on what I've heard from Beal and read about him as well the family infrastructure he has around him, I just don't see him fitting that description.

Again, I'm not talking about emotional maturity. I'm talking about a player who has not fully developed his basketball skills, because he's 19 years old and has very limited experience. This has nothing to do with his personality or discipline or anything like that. Someone with his lack of experience - playing as a backup - is likely going to be affected and influenced - on the court - by who plays in front of him. That's all.

[go'stags]

In what ways, Ruz? I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand exactly what you're saying.

I have a hard time envisioning Beal dribbling for 18 seconds before jacking a contested jumper or throwing up a wild floater.

[Ruzious]

In what ways, Ruz? I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand exactly what you're saying.

I have a hard time envisioning Beal dribbling for 18 seconds before jacking a contested jumper or throwing up a wild floater.

Ya know what, I need to take a break - if it takes this many posts to explain something this simple - not exactly productive or stimulating. My communications skills aren't working here. I'll see you guys in a month or so. It's a good time of the year to take a break, anyway.

[hands11]

Bizarre conventional wisdom? You honestly don't think players learn from the players in front of them? When I'm talking about mentoring in this case, I'm talking about who they learn how to play from - not who they learn workout skills, taking care of one's body, etc. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should have spelled it out more. He's a 19 year old unfinished product who's going to be affected by his teammates - one way or another.

A 19 year old who is immature and lacking in self-discipline and outside guidance may adopt some of the bad playing habits of someone like Crawford. However, based on what I've heard from Beal and read about him as well the family infrastructure he has around him, I don't see him fitting that description.

This is beyond absurd to even be talking about this. Only reason this conversation has lasted this long is because some people just can't admit they are dead wrong.

One of Beals biggest assets is he personality, maturity and coachability. He has plenty of coaches to teach him about how to approach the game as well as players like Nene. He doesn't need Crawford to teach him how to be SG or how to shoot. If there is something Crawford can add that is positive, I'm sure he will listen but there is no way Crawford is going to lead this kid in any direction. Beal was drafted because Crawford wasn't enough of sure thing at SG. Beal is his own person. He was taken 3rd in the draft. He has a very good head coach and several assistants. He has work out coaches. He has his family and his work ethic. He has his own mind and game film.

The very idea that Beals approach to the game is a topic for conversation and that Crawford is mentioned in the same sentence is absurd. Just more up is down and down is up logic. It makes zero sense.

[go'stags]

In what ways, Ruz? I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand exactly what you're saying.

I have a hard time envisioning Beal dribbling for 18 seconds before jacking a contested jumper or throwing up a wild floater.

Ya know what, I need to take a break - if it takes this many posts to explain something this simple - not exactly productive or stimulating. My communications skills aren't working here. I'll see you guys in a month or so. It's a good time of the year to take a break, anyway.

Well, in case you haven't left already, I was wondering in what specific ways Beal with will be influenced by Crawford on the court. ie over dribbling, bad shots, etc. When you say "Someone with his lack of experience - playing as a backup - is likely going to be affected and influenced - on the court - by who plays in front of him" I just wondered-and I realize this may seem like a ridiculous question---how? What part of Crawfords game will he emulate.

Overall this is a silly over-analytic conversation. But If this notion is so simple then I guess everyone above is nowhere near as smart as you. We probably all need a break.