Wiz vs DET Game Thread 2/27/13 7PM - fake dagger game

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^
Wait, your initials aren't CCJ?

monte, I would never buy stationery. It should say US Govt. Those must be a bosses or somebody in personnel's inits.

[DCZards]

He deflected blame. Dude did a Flip Saunders. John should have known he sucked and should have manned up to at least admit he had a bad night.

If I were his teammate he would want me off the team after tonight because I would flat out tell him he needs to take ownership. He sucked. He better not say they were good passes. He played like crap and he's a HUGE REASON THEY LOSE TO DETROIT.

I don't think he's hard on himself. I think he lacks insight and he is not the sharpest guy. Wall just said he thought they didn't play as a team. Say what? So, this is on Seraphin? Ariza? Who, John Wall? Beal?

That guy is NOT a leader.

C'mon, ccj, we know you've never liked Wall but your comments are just as inappropriate and over the top as you claim Wall's were. Wall's comments were a poor choice of words by a frustrated young man after a difficult loss. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop trying to make something out of them that is simply not there.

And try showing the kid some love instead of your all-too-familiar hate.

[SizzlinSimms]

I still don't think Wall is in shape. I don't think he could do much activity when he was resting his knee. I mean, the picture from early in the season when he had the added chub, yet the past couple seasons he was a lean guy. I think cardio and fitness is a weakness right now for him. He's technically playing himself into shape right now.

I'll admit I'd love to see more out of Wall, a lot more consistency at least. The shooting problem likely will never be corrected, and I can live with that, as long as he's surrounded by talented shooters and players that can score. Okafor, Nene, Beal, Webster, Ariza at times can all hit open Js. We know that he's a talented young player, however it's all raw potential right now and isn't translating into product. As of right now if all PGs were healthy I don't think he'd crack the top ten (no order): CP3, Irving, Parker, Rose, Rondo, Curry, Westbrook, Holiday, Lilard, with DWill, Kemba, and Lawson at about the same level as Wall. Wall's inconsistency is killing him. Maybe it's a mental thing and he comes too flustered? I dunno.

I'm not writing him off yet and I don't see the point of trading him cause there really isn't a point. You wouldn't get back as much you'd hope or think you would. It's possibly SVG was right about Wall. He might not ever develop into the true star we hoped and wanted for the Wizards, hopefully Beal will be that blessing in disguise.

What Wall needs is not one good game, but to rattle off a consecutive number of games where he's performing well. Doesn't have to great. All he needs is a performance that is well enough where he makes a positive impact instead of a negative one with all the turnovers. I'm hoping that's soon.

[Kanyewest]

Pistons' announcers missed it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1FYMHmUauI

[GhostsOfGil]

How did Wall feel about Jordan Crawford? How does Wall feel with Beal suddenly succeeding and improving? Who crowds around Wall's locker after Wizard games now? Wall had to learn about what David Falk said and Mike Lee quoted verbatim. That was much more crushing than what SVG said a while back.

The real problem with Wall is I don't see how he figures it out and improves. He is what he is.

Everybody goes through hard times. The question is how Wall responds. Does he sulk and never improve or does this light a fire in him to do whatever needs to be done to get better? I'm not ready to write the guy off yet.

IDK his first two seasons were hard times. We're seeing his response now.. and he's sulking, taking shots at his teammates, and NOT improving. Very disappointing night for Wizards fans.

[dandridge 10]

I wouldn't say that CCJ's comments were inappropriate. Maybe a little harsh, but John should not have said what he said, particularly since it was false. Maybe only 1 or 2 of his turnovers were his teammates fault. The rest was squarely on his shoulders and he should have acknowledged that. Wall was horrible tonight and he should have accepted responsibility.

I'm not writing off Wall either, but I have huge concerns. I can accept the poor shooting. What I can't accept is the poor decisionmaking. I think Falk has a point regarding Wall not having a good feel for the game. It seems like everything he does is predetermined, as opposed to creating depending on what the defense gives him. He probably leads the league in getting up in the air without anywhere to go. Its because he just makes up his mind that he is going to do something before he does it, instead of just taking what the defense gives him. For example, I get the sense that sometimes he comes up the court and just says to himself, "I'm going to drive to the basket and dish it off" notwithstanding the the paint is already well covered. It seems that most of Wall's assists come off of fast break attempts where he can push the ball up and then kick it out to an open shooter. Anybody can do that, especially with his speed. I would be more impressed if he got more assists in the half court offense, simply by probing the defense and taking what the defense gives him. That is what real good point guards do. However, it must be a little hard to do that when opposing teams just pack the lane daring wall to shoot.

I don't know. I'm not completely giving up on him. But, I am starting to believe that while he may turn into a pretty good player, he will not be a superstar or probably even a star. I would not give him away in a trade. However, I certainly would be open to entertaining offers for him if it involved a high pick and another young asset.

[GhostsOfGil]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Washington Wizards point guard John Wall hardly took the high road when asked whether his slow start affected him the rest of the way in a seven-turnover, four-assist performance Wednesday night.
''I think it was great passes. I just think some of my teammates (didn't) catch them, and some of them got tipped away,'' Wall said, ''so just got to deal with it.''

First paragraph of the post game recap. I was kinda hoping this would stay quiet.

Then theres this:
Comments from Randy

"Tonight, we got what we deserved. We didn't deserve to win that game," Wittman said.

"We were more caught up in ourselves as individuals than the team," he added later. "That's the bottom line. We got guys that haven't been in the rotation complaining. The older guys try to help them; they won't listen. That just tells me, 'I'm just worried about myself. I'm not worried about winning this game.'"

Wittman was talking about the team generally. He was later asked about Wall specifically and quickly pivoted again to talking about the team.

"Whether it's a game, a stretch, two weeks, 10 days, you've got to fight through it. You can't succumb to it. You can't feel sorry for yourself. Not only John. We feel sorry for ourselves sometimes," he said.

[SizzlinSimms]

I wish/hope Sam Cassell would sit Wall down and have a long talk with him about his future and what he needs to develop. I saw previously Wall reached out to Gary Payton, which is great, another player who struggled early in his career as a jump shooter (I'm basing this off my dad watching him in Washington, right outside Seattle). Even if Wall develops into a decent jump shooter, as long as he corrects himself in decisions, plays lockdown defense, etc. I'd be very pleased. I think John needs to just slow down. He's going way too fast. Let the game come to him instead of trying to force everything or going a million miles per hour. We get it, you're fast. That doesn't mean anything until you can translate it to some sort of product. I'm hoping he learns soon. I'd wish Wall would reach out to Westbrook, Irving, D-Rose in the offseason. D-Rose was not a great shooter early in his career however each season he improved and improved. I'd hope Wall does the same instead of trying to be flashy and showtime.

[GhostsOfGil]

I'd also like to point out how valuable Nene is to this team. Detroit had 48 points in the pain. For the season Washington is holding opponents to 38.

[AFM]

Sometimes when I'm bored/horny, I like to imagine Wall with an amazing jumper. Hitting stepback jumpers in the defender's face, then running back downcourt doing the DeShawn Stevenson "I can't feel my face" move.

[dcPress]

I think Wall had high hopes of leading his team to the playoffs, and it's now becoming clear that it's not going to happen. I'd be sulking too if I were him.

Taking a shot at his team is troubling, since it implies there isn't a good relationship there.

[doclinkin]

Bah, with Nene out I expect a blow out: poor spacing on offense and no interior defense. Calderon read the situation perfectly and spoonfed Greg Monroe. Witt stayed small all game and the squad was overmatched. I swore that was a win when the ball was in the air, but oh well, gutty comeback, I won't dwell on this one too much.

[truwizfan4evr]

I actually think wall gets along with his teammates but in the nba or any sports you should never put your teammate under the bus the media will pick that up and make you look bad. I think Randy Needs to be hard on Wall like he was on Kevin bench him just teach him a lesson and Sam Cassel needs to get on his case as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He deflected blame. Dude did a Flip Saunders. John should have known he sucked and should have manned up to at least admit he had a bad night.

If I were his teammate he would want me off the team after tonight because I would flat out tell him he needs to take ownership. He sucked. He better not say they were good passes. He played like crap and he's a HUGE REASON THEY LOSE TO DETROIT.

I don't think he's hard on himself. I think he lacks insight and he is not the sharpest guy. Wall just said he thought they didn't play as a team. Say what? So, this is on Seraphin? Ariza? Who, John Wall? Beal?

That guy is NOT a leader.

C'mon, ccj, we know you've never liked Wall but your comments are just as inappropriate and over the top as you claim Wall's were. Wall's comments were a poor choice of words by a frustrated young man after a difficult loss. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop trying to make something out of them that is simply not there.

And try showing the kid some love instead of your all-too-familiar hate.

I just searched with my son for about 20 minutes for a lost backpack after his basketball practice. DCZ, I didn't not raise my voice, I kept encouraging he would find it. He did.

If John knew me personally and wasn't a guy I'm hating from a distance I doubt very seriously he would think I am a hater. I'm closer to Boys Town's Father Flanagan.

(PS-- I don't endorse or financially support the actual Boys Town. I just thought this was more appropriate than 12 seconds of Spencer Tracy hugging a kid. I do support their cause of healing and hope to promote success in life.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeL9rHApcjU[/youtube]

Here's the clip that espouses that kids are not innately bad for no reason.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_rfcO729Y[/youtube]

DCZ, I'm not unsympathetic to Wall's struggles. We are all flawed.

[nuposse04]

I think that quote is more indicative of how Wall isn't the best interviewee in the world, he doesn't seem like the type of personality that WANTs to throw anyone under the bus, just a brain fart..then again you don't attend SEC schools because you're an academic phenom. Still that's more frustration he ought to let out.

[Upper Decker]

IIRC, RG3 never threw his teammates under the bus during post game interviews and he had plenty of chances to do so. The pittsburgh game with 9 dropped passes comes to mind.

I'm beginning to loathe john wall. Not because his comments, but because his play is just terrible.

[hands11]

But no way Randy can do that will Wall on the roster. One game wouldnt be worth having to deal with the after math.

You are right about this. Part of me wants Randy to stick with his meritocracy philosophy and play the player who deserved to be in the game (Price); but Randy has to be careful about playing too many mind games. Wall's confidence is waning fast, and Randy probably doesn't want to make it worse.

I wish I knew what was going on in practice and in the locker room. Is Wall's piss poor body language and demeanor a sign that his overall attitude is bad? Has he been lazy or insubordinate? If so, then bench his ass next time. But if Wall is dutifully working on his game and is merely in a slump, then Randy should probably be lenient and continue to play his "star" in the important minutes.

Here is a question to consider. Does Randy have that kind of power yet ?

Its one thing to bench Singleton, Ves or Kevin. Its entirely different to bench Wall who was brought in as the franchise savior #1. Would Ted/EG support the idea of Randy handling things like that ? If not, Randy isn't big enough to go over their heads.

And this make me hark back to posts I made back when they did this. I thought it was a bad way to introduce him to the league and the team at the time. He had done nothing in the NBA yet. You don't make him the captain of the team right out of the gate before he earned it. I would rather the team have no captain.

Hell, Beal could clearly be a team captain right now. I still wouldn't do it. So glad we have players like Nene and Webster who are mature vets captain types. For Beal, even as good as he is, I hope they wait till year 3 to make him a captain.

You either get it or you don't. Beal gets it. Lillard get its. Its clean when player do. Wall doesn't get it. He learning is more on trade with Kevin and McGee then it is Beal and Lillard.

That leads me to believe it not if they need to trade him, only when.

[hands11]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnUy3pz3U0w[/youtube]

Watch Wall. This is what I posted about earlier.

Best seat in the house.

[FAH1223]

if anything, Grunfeld should be fired for not putting a team like this out for John in his rookie season

[hands11]

Wall's postgame interview transcript, from BulletsForever:

REPORTER: John, another rough night. You've had a couple of them here. Is there anything consistent going through them.

WALL: Nope. Just not making shots. That's all I can say.

REPORTER: Where do you think the source of the turnovers is?

WALL: I don't know. I think you're seeing the same thing I'm seeing, so I can't really call it.

REPORTER: Jose Calderon came up to you after the game. What did he say to you

WALL: Just keep playing. [He told me] I'm a talented player and to just keep playing. Go forward with that.

REPORTER: Are you struggling with health at all? Are you 100 percent?

WALL: No health [problems] at all, just trying to play basketball and do my best to help my team win.

REPORTER: You got off to a bad start with your four turnovers in the first quarter. Was it hard to get on track after that tough start? Was that a part of it?

WALL: That wasn't it at all. They were great passes. It was just, some teammates couldn't catch them and some got tipped away. Just got to deal with it.

REPORTER: Randy [Wittman] was critical of some of the young players' attitudes today. Did you sense any of that?

WALL: Uh, I don't know. I didn't really see it. I just didn't think we played as a team like we usually do. It always happens when we play this team, and that's why we always get ourselves behind.

A couple of takeaways:

Wall isn't hurt. The knee isn't the issue. Rust may be, but he's not playing in pain so let's take that off the list of excuses.

Wall took a shot at his teammates. Whether true or not, a leader doesn't do that. At most, he can say, "we win and lose as a team so everyone bears some responsibility", but you don't say "they were great passes. It was just some teammates couldn't catch them".

Overall, this doesn't look good. You can dismiss undiplomatic comments out of a 20-year-old player in his first season after an emotional loss in a frustrating game, but a 3-year veteran who is supposed to be the face of the franchise needs to have better judgement.

They were not great passes. They were difficult passes made in the post, close distance, clogged lanes, to big men. When Price came in, those same player caught his passes and the pick and roll looked much more open and smoother.

What worries me so much about Wall is... if you don't get it, you don't get it. First things first. You have to understand and identify the right problem. His problem isn't that he can't shoot, its his decision making.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, he was interviewed and asked about his shooting vs driving, his answer was, my shooting is better then my driving. Wow.

1) If that is really true and his drives are worse then his J, we are in big trouble.
2) If he really doesn't get it at that level, we are in even bigger trouble.

Wall seems to live in his on little world were facts don't enter. It appear his ego won't allow it. He bought into the press clipping of his potential and what they really looks like on a basketball court.

It doesn't even pass the sniff test. He took more shots then Jose did and Jose can actually shoot. So why didn't Jose shoot more. Answer. He is a PG. He knows it doesn't matter if he scorer or his team scores. Its about getting it done efficiently. So instead of shooting, he team needed him to set them up last night, so he did that instead. 18 assists. Great game.

So while Jose was racking up 18 assist with only 6 shots in 36 min, Wall took 9 shots with only 4 assists n 7 turnovers ( should have been 8 turnovers because they blamed Okafor for one that was really on Wall )

Seems to be the same thing with Wall every year. He sucks. Then he trims his game back and gets better. Then he tries to do to much again and he sucks. Then he trims back his game and does better. Every time I think he finally gets it, he reverts to being clueless. Very frustrating and not trending in the right direction. He seems to be running in circles.

Thing is, people rarely change there mind set or approach to things. They may add some skills but they usually don't change their approach. I just don't trust Walls decision making and I don't see that changing. If it is problem now, imagine being in a big playoff game. There is just to much for him to learn mentally. Cut bait when you can. Find a better decision maker. He will be fun to watch over his career, but I don't see him as a winner that takes the team anywhere. The bigger the stage, the more he will force things.

Maybe he eventually gets it, but its not going to be here and its would take a min of 3 years for that level of eye opening to happen. Get some value for him while you can. I said the same thing about Gil. Its not the talent/skills, it the decision making and hero ball mentality.