Political Roundtable Part XXII

[Jamaaliver]

jobs are back! revenue revenue is growing (with tax cuts)! UE at historic lows! Manufacturing is coming back!

seriously, the victorious Trump economy for most is a myth.

Trump’s Promises to ‘Forgotten Man’ Undercut by Wage Stagnation

Real wages have remained mostly stagnant despite an expanding economy, record stock prices, soaring corporate profits and a giant deficit-fueled stimulus from Trump’s tax cuts that took effect Jan. 1. The Trump administration claimed its policies would immediately boost wages, with its tax overhaul ultimately increasing average pay by $4,000 to $9,000.

Once the impact of inflation is included, ordinary Americans’ hourly earnings are lower than they were a year ago.

A majority of voters believes their personal financial situation has remained the same or gotten worse over the past two years, said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University poll.

By a margin of 58 percent to 38 percent, U.S. voters believe the Trump administration isn’t doing enough to help middle-class Americans, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released Aug. 14.

At the same time, many Americans received a boost in take-home pay from the tax cuts, though some ended up paying more in taxes. About 65 percent of taxpayers will receive a tax cut in 2018, averaging $2,200 from the new law’s individual provisions, while 6 percent will receive an increase of about $2,800...

Trump has been telling voters that wages already are rising at historic rates, though economic data don’t show it. In various recent speeches, he has falsely claimed that wages are going up for the first time in 18 years, 19 years, 20 years, 21 years and 22 years.

“People that depend on wages -- and that’s essentially almost everyone except higher-income or higher-wealth individuals -- are not seeing as much benefit from this economy,” said Gregory Daco, head of U.S. macroeconomics at Oxford Economics in New York. “People at the lower end of the income spectrum are actually more constrained.”

Bloomberg Economic News

[TGW]

jobs are back! revenue revenue is growing (with tax cuts)! UE at historic lows! Manufacturing is coming back!

seriously, the victorious Trump economy for most is a myth.

Trump’s Promises to ‘Forgotten Man’ Undercut by Wage Stagnation

Real wages have remained mostly stagnant despite an expanding economy, record stock prices, soaring corporate profits and a giant deficit-fueled stimulus from Trump’s tax cuts that took effect Jan. 1. The Trump administration claimed its policies would immediately boost wages, with its tax overhaul ultimately increasing average pay by $4,000 to $9,000.

Once the impact of inflation is included, ordinary Americans’ hourly earnings are lower than they were a year ago.

A majority of voters believes their personal financial situation has remained the same or gotten worse over the past two years, said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University poll.

By a margin of 58 percent to 38 percent, U.S. voters believe the Trump administration isn’t doing enough to help middle-class Americans, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released Aug. 14.

At the same time, many Americans received a boost in take-home pay from the tax cuts, though some ended up paying more in taxes. About 65 percent of taxpayers will receive a tax cut in 2018, averaging $2,200 from the new law’s individual provisions, while 6 percent will receive an increase of about $2,800...

Trump has been telling voters that wages already are rising at historic rates, though economic data don’t show it. In various recent speeches, he has falsely claimed that wages are going up for the first time in 18 years, 19 years, 20 years, 21 years and 22 years.

“People that depend on wages -- and that’s essentially almost everyone except higher-income or higher-wealth individuals -- are not seeing as much benefit from this economy,” said Gregory Daco, head of U.S. macroeconomics at Oxford Economics in New York. “People at the lower end of the income spectrum are actually more constrained.”

Bloomberg Economic News

THANK YOU.

Wages are completely stagnant, and inflation is up due to terrible economic policies. Just because there are a ton of **** jobs doesn't make it a good economy. Too bad the democrats don't want to run on that because they don't want to be held to a higher standard either. Both parties are happy to keep wages low and corporations rich.

[Jamaaliver]

seriously, the victorious Trump economy for most is a myth.

THANK YOU.

Wages are completely stagnant, and inflation is up due to terrible economic policies. Just because there are a ton of **** jobs doesn't make it a good economy. Too bad the democrats don't want to run on that because they don't want to be held to a higher standard either. Both parties are happy to keep wages low and corporations rich.

A hard truth.

And the ever expanding socialist wing of the progressive movement is extremely unrealistic of what they can offer and how it will be funded.

The truth is there is no single economic policy that will benefit all Americans.

But too often we defer to what is good for Corporations and watch as they pass on those savings/profits to the small minority of folks who are shareholders.

While the middle class suffers.

And sadly, too many middle class individuals are so uneducated about what is happening from only consuming news from one place -- they literally lineup and cheer to give more of the economic power to the top 1%.

Because, you know...it'll trickle back down eventually.

[stilldropin20]

seriously, the victorious Trump economy for most is a myth.

THANK YOU.

Wages are completely stagnant, and inflation is up due to terrible economic policies. Just because there are a ton of **** jobs doesn't make it a good economy. Too bad the democrats don't want to run on that because they don't want to be held to a higher standard either. Both parties are happy to keep wages low and corporations rich.

A hard truth.

And the ever expanding socialist wing of the progressive movement is extremely unrealistic of what they can offer and how it will be funded.

The truth is there is no single economic policy that will benefit all Americans.

But too often we defer to what is good for Corporations and watch as they pass on those savings/profits to the small minority of folks who are shareholders.

While the middle class suffers.

And sadly, too many middle class individuals are so uneducated about what is happening from only consuming news from one place -- they literally lineup and cheer to give more of the economic power to the top 1%.

Because, you know...it'll trickle back down eventually.

Trump and Mexico reached the agreement to renegotiating NAFTA with mexico yesterday. Canada next.

1. wage growth and jobs growth and holding on to our intellectual property are the biggest proponents. Ink is not dry nor is it ratified in congress. but mexico is prepared to go bi lateral with the deal so this is going to happen. We wont see the effects of it until 2019 though.

right now 38.5% of our car parts are made in China and then shipped to either the US, mexico, or canada to be manufactured. the deal brings that down to 25%

the deal also calls for significant increases of the raw material to be sourced in north america (USA).

[Jamaaliver]

Trump and Mexico reached the agreement to renegotiating NAFTA with mexico yesterday. Canada next.1. wage growth and jobs growth and holding on to our intellectual property are the biggest proponents. Ink is not dry nor is it ratified in congress. but mexico is prepared to go bi lateral with the deal so this is going to happen. We wont see the effects of it until 2019 though.right now 38.5% of our car parts are made in canada. the deal brings that down to 25%the deal also calls for significant portion of the raw material to be sourced in north america (USA).

We'll see, STD.
I'm an independent voter and will give credit where it's due. But' I'm withholding judgment until I see concrete results.

I was told months ago that North Korea was denuclearizing and Trump was in line to win the Nobel Peace Prize...


Still waiting on that to come to fruition.


NOTE: But giving credit to the administration, they did manage to get a number of American prisoners returned from North Korea.

[stilldropin20]

Trump and Mexico reached the agreement to renegotiating NAFTA with mexico yesterday. Canada next.1. wage growth and jobs growth and holding on to our intellectual property are the biggest proponents. Ink is not dry nor is it ratified in congress. but mexico is prepared to go bi lateral with the deal so this is going to happen. We wont see the effects of it until 2019 though.right now 38.5% of our car parts are made in canada. the deal brings that down to 25%the deal also calls for significant portion of the raw material to be sourced in north america (USA).

We'll see, STD.
I'm an independent voter and will give credit where it's due. But' I'm withholding judgment until I see concrete results.

I was told months ago that North Korea was denuclearizing and Trump was in line to win the Nobel Peace Prize...


Still waiting on that to come to fruition.


NOTE: But giving credit to the administration, they did manage to get a number of American prisoners returned from North Korea.

this is fair criticism. But if Trump is negotiating these things now...NAFTA...to help the american middle class...wouldn't it help if more american were behind him? For example, if Reagan had a 44% approval rating in the late 80's do you think he would have been able to say "tear down this wall?"

You dont have to vote for trump in 2020. but the vitriol against him right now is only hurting middle america. So why are the democrats so against trump? Why is liberal media pushing so hard every day to make trump look bad. They have made up russian collusion and gnawed on that bone for 2 years. It was a lie. worse. it was set up.

But the damage has been done. middle class dems hate trump. but trump is the only president in 40 years to fight to lower taxes and to fight to bring jobs back and sourcing back from the US. Why fight this? Why resist? Who cares who he slept with and who he paid off and for that matter who cares if russians helped him win? Seriously!! If trump is the guy that brings back manufactiring and other jobs which leads to increased wages then who cares!!!

Imagine If trump had 65% approval rating right now...maybe this NAFTA deal would look even better for americans.

You guys are tearing down the only president of the USA that is trying to being jobs back to the USA since Gerald Ford. Every other president has been signing regulations into place to chase jobs oversees.

And again...if the price of consumables goes up, who cares!! So long as wages increase!!!! The working Poor can get by with 4 shirts, 4 pairs of pants and 2-3 pairs of shoes. We dont need walk in closets full of "stuff" nor 4000sf homes with another 1500sf in the fully finished "basement."

The more scarce the labor and the greater the availablity of jobs allows labor to organize...unionize and negotiate better wages.

And immigration control is huge part of this as well. something else trump is fighting to reduce. as well as reducing the illicit drugs through the souther border.

From Obama:

Read on Twitter

This is NOT rocket science. But it is a political land mine. and Trump is the only president willing to walk the land mine and step on a few along the way...all so the american middle class can eventually benefit.

But its not one single thing that will bring wages up. look at your charts above. Wages dropped off of the face of the earth in 1998-as Bill Clinton signed us into the WTO and shipped millions of jobs oversees to china.

1. We've got to bring those jobs back from china
2. we've got to limit the supply of low end labor.
3. Which keeps labor scarce and makes corps fight for its labor.
4. keep taxes low to help corps come back and lesson the burden of taxes on the american worker.
5. We've got to force manufacturers to source more and more raw materials and here in the US.

Trump is addressing all of this. It takes time. The dems have him fighting for his political life...and why??? So we can keep these jobs back in china??? So China's economy and revenue out grows ours? So China can grow its infrastructure and modernize? makes no sense. none at all.

[Jamaaliver]

You're pushing quite a bit of inaccurate information.

So, I will respectfully leave this debate before it goes downhill.

[payitforward]

Speaking of the Podesta's, I wonder when they're going to be investigated? They're consulting firm is as corrupt as Manefort-Davis.

They work for Ukrainian dictators? They're involved with Russia or any foreign country in an attempt to influence the result of our Presidential election?

Actually... what exactly have the Podestas done that strikes you as "corrupt?"

Quick answer? Yes and yes. As a matter of fact, they were a part of mueller’s Investigation and have ties to Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs. For probably political reasons, Mueller has not gone after them.

http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/357962-Manafort-Podesta-Group-highlight-DC-swamp-culture

Perhaps you should reread the article? In fact, it appears that Manafort hired them to lobby on behalf of an organization called The European Centre for Modern Ukraine, which turns out to be a shell created by Manafort's Ukrainian dictator client. They were paid by Manafort, not that shell organization & not Manafort's Ukrainian client.

For that reason they registered the relationship with Congress rather than the Justice Department. Now, should they have known they were working for Yanukovych? Maybe. Probably, if you like. But, here's the thing: once it became clear that they were, they registered appropriately w/ Justice. Nor are they still working for him.

This is quite different from Manafort, isn't it? Manafort was explicitly working for Yanukovych -- one can imagine that the ECMU shell was his idea.

So the first of your "Yes and yes" response appears to be incorrect -- "No" would be the more appropriate answer.

The second part of your "Yes and yes" seems kind of ridiculous, don't you think? The involvement with a "foreign country in an attempt to influence the result of our Presidential election" was an attempt to swing the election to Trump. John Podesta headed up Clinton's campaign.

The next part of your claim -- "For probably political reasons, Mueller has not gone after them." -- is false on the face of it. In fact, it would have been appropriate for Mueller to investigate them -- essentially to figure out if they had known who they were working for from the get-go -- & he did exactly that.

Your overall thesis, which lumps the Podestas with Manafort as equally corrupt is obviously senseless. No one questions whether Manafort knew whom he worked for.

If you paint with a broad enough brush, & with sufficient inattention, everything gets painted the same color. There's plenty to analyze & subject to critique in a Washington culture centered on power, but a POV that equalizes Manafort & the Podestas doesn't contribute to that analysis. It's just more of the "tsk tsk, what a swamp DC is" stuff.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[gtn130]

in before TGW blocks PIF

[montestewart]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Especially that most marginalized of minorities: billionaires

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19



In 2006, Mr. Ohr was part of a group of government officials who revoked the visa of Oleg Deripaska, a Russian billionaire and aluminum magnate. Officials were concerned that Mr. Deripaska might try to come to the United States to launder illicit profits through real estate, a former law enforcement official said.



Mr. Deripaska, a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, has been tied to the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was convicted last week of tax and bank fraud. In 2016, Mr. Manafort offered private campaign briefings to Mr. Deripaska, raising concerns about the prospect of Russians wielding influence inside the White House.

[Pointgod]

They work for Ukrainian dictators? They're involved with Russia or any foreign country in an attempt to influence the result of our Presidential election?

Actually... what exactly have the Podestas done that strikes you as "corrupt?"

Quick answer? Yes and yes. As a matter of fact, they were a part of mueller’s Investigation and have ties to Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs. For probably political reasons, Mueller has not gone after them.

http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/357962-Manafort-Podesta-Group-highlight-DC-swamp-culture

Perhaps you should reread the article? In fact, it appears that Manafort hired them to lobby on behalf of an organization called The European Centre for Modern Ukraine, which turns out to be a shell created by Manafort's Ukrainian dictator client. They were paid by Manafort, not that shell organization & not Manafort's Ukrainian client.

For that reason they registered the relationship with Congress rather than the Justice Department. Now, should they have known they were working for Yanukovych? Maybe. Probably, if you like. But, here's the thing: once it became clear that they were, they registered appropriately w/ Justice. Nor are they still working for him.

This is quite different from Manafort, isn't it? Manafort was explicitly working for Yanukovych -- one can imagine that the ECMU shell was his idea.

So the first of your "Yes and yes" response appears to be incorrect -- "No" would be the more appropriate answer.

The second part of your "Yes and yes" seems kind of ridiculous, don't you think? The involvement with a "foreign country in an attempt to influence the result of our Presidential election" was an attempt to swing the election to Trump. John Podesta headed up Clinton's campaign.

The next part of your claim -- "For probably political reasons, Mueller has not gone after them." -- is false on the face of it. In fact, it would have been appropriate for Mueller to investigate them -- essentially to figure out if they had known who they were working for from the get-go -- & he did exactly that.

Your overall thesis, which lumps the Podestas with Manafort as equally corrupt is obviously senseless. No one questions whether Manafort knew whom he worked for.

If you paint with a broad enough brush, & with sufficient inattention, everything gets painted the same color. There's plenty to analyze & subject to critique in a Washington culture centered on power, but a POV that equalizes Manafort & the Podestas doesn't contribute to that analysis. It's just more of the "tsk tsk, what a swamp DC is" stuff.

God damn TGW just got savaged. I sincerely hope he's a troll because if believes half the crap he spews and purposely misrepresents facts them that's just sad.

[Pointgod]

You're pushing quite a bit of inaccurate information.

So, I will respectfully leave this debate before it goes downhill.

That's SD20 in a nut shell. Not only is he a complete moron he's a disingenuous moron.

[payitforward]

in before TGW blocks PIF

Oh I don't think so (nor the other way either). We are talking about a real situation; the truth about it will be determined by real facts.

If TGW demonstrates something to me about the Podestas, then no problem I'll accept it.

My problem with his post, as I hope I made clear, is that there is an understandable tendency to lump everyone in the same ugly pool. But, in fact the Podestas are not like Manafort in the slightest.

[payitforward]

You're pushing quite a bit of inaccurate information.

So, I will respectfully leave this debate before it goes downhill.

That's SD20 in a nut shell. Not only is he a complete moron he's a disingenuous moron.

Reminds me of the bumper sticker I saw on the back of a Ford F150 the other day. It read:

Does this truck make my neck look red?

Actually, it doesn't particularly remind me of that. But, come on, that is a great bumper sticker, right?

[TGW]

in before TGW blocks PIF

Oh I don't think so (nor the other way either). We are talking about a real situation; the truth about it will be determined by real facts.

If TGW demonstrates something to me about the Podestas, then no problem I'll accept it.

My problem with his post, as I hope I made clear, is that there is an understandable tendency to lump everyone in the same ugly pool. But, in fact the Podestas are not like Manafort in the slightest.

Um yes they are. I’m on my phone so I’m not going to be able to post every article on the subject because I’m not that dedicated, but the podestas are every bit as corrupt as Manafor-Davis.

But once I’m in front of a computer I’ll be able to give you all the links buddy. But props to you pif; at least you’re able to respond like a man and not like a typical Hillary hoe.

*edit* so Mueller is literally lumping them into one pool:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-lobbying_us_5b75d040e4b0a5b1feb92453

https://nyti.ms/2OwqUOt

In other words, Pointgod and that other clown can kiss my ass.

[TGW]

Great night for progressives as Andrew Gillum beats corporate democrat scumbag Gwen Graham in Florida. Another awesome win for Bernie backed candidates.

[stilldropin20]

surprise surprise who woulda thunk it.

Read on Twitter

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[stilldropin20]

wait. trump was right again? it was china after all. "maybe it was china"

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

ah but..."banker" controlled reuters:

Read on Twitter

never change fake news! never change!