2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[NatP4]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

[prime1time]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

[nate33]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

I wish Oklahoma State didn't play so much zone. I'd like to see Cunningham's man-to-man defense. One thing about Cunningham is that he is 6-8 with a 7-2 wingspan. That's really long for a wing. Guys like that provide so much flexibility for a team's defense because he can switch 1-4 and disrupt passing lanes.

The big knock on Cunningham is his high turnover rate suggests that he might not be the point guard that he is trying to be in college. That's still not that big of problem. He can just as easily be a scoring forward with secondary playmaking skills. He may be more of a Paul George than a Luka Doncic. There's nothing wrong with that.

[nate33]

I still think Evan Mobley is the prize in this draft.

[Ruzious]

I still think Evan Mobley is the prize in this draft.

I think he's the biggest difference maker - even though he plays the position that's most downgraded - though I think he'd be fine at PF. There are lots of PGs that are excellent players. There aren't many bigs who excel defensively as well as offensively.

[NatP4]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

[NatP4]

I still think Evan Mobley is the prize in this draft.

I actually have changed my opinion on this as of late. I think Mobley has the most upside, but Suggs is the best player. Mobley’s motor can run a little bit cold at times and he’s prone to watching other people rebound instead of going after the ball. His offensive game is awesome, great passer, great post hook, good shooter, great finisher on lobs and around the basket. I just don’t think he plays hard all the time and has that competitive edge.

Do they have a March madness tournament this year? It would be great to see Mobley in big games against competition on the big stage to see how competitive he really is.

Right now, I would go:

1. Suggs (lower upside, better player)
2. Mobley (higher upside, average motor)
3. Cunningham

[Ruzious]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

That was a very bad game by Suggs - except for his few highlight plays. Thing is - how do teammates affect their performances? Suggs is playing with a near perfect college team. Cade is playing with players with relatively low skill levels. Personally, I think they're about even - with Cade having a slightly higher ceiling and Suggs having a clearly higher floor. Suggs can't miss being at least a very good NBA player. I can't say that for sure about Cade - even though he's got potentially more tools because of his size/length.

[prime1time]

I think Butler and Suggs are the two best players in college basketball. If I were GM, I would be making every effort to acquire both of those guys.

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

Yes, Gonzaga is one of the best teams in the country. And Cunningham struggled and came through in the clutch vs Texas. Read my post, other than one outlier game when he went 7/10, Suggs is 15/50 from 3 and 71% from the ft line for the season. Why is it assumed that he is a good shooter?there is no guarantee he can come in and be a knock down high volume 3-point shooter. And if he can’t be that he shouldn’t be included with the elite prospects.

[prime1time]

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

That was a very bad game by Suggs - except for his few highlight plays. Thing is - how do teammates affect their performances? Suggs is playing with a near perfect college team. Cade is playing with players with relatively low skill levels. Personally, I think they're about even - with Cade having a slightly higher ceiling and Suggs having a clearly higher floor. Suggs can't miss being at least a very good NBA player. I can't say that for sure about Cade - even though he's got potentially more tools because of his size/length.

Why does Suggs have a higher ceilings what does that mean? 6’8, 7’2 pg, who’s a knockdown shooter. Cunningham is an elite shooter right now. Cunningham is Tatum with playmaking. What is Suggs ceiling? Cunningham projects as an effective excu1-4 defender. And he was looked at as a distributor before the season but now he has to create everything because he has no one to pass to. Who’s the last elite wing that shot the ball as well as Cunningham?

[NatP4]

What's the argument for either of those guys being better than Cunningham? 42.3% from 3, 84% from the ft line in an NBA that's valuing shooting more and more. Suggs gets defined by one good shooting game. But what is his percentage if you take that one game away? 15/50 = 30% and at 71% from the ft line. There's no guarantee that Suggs can become a knockdown shooter at the next level. For comparison, Wall shot 32.5% from 3 and 75% from the ft line.

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

Yes, Gonzaga is one of the best teams in the country. And Cunningham struggled and came through in the clutch vs Texas. Read my post, other than one outlier game when he went 7/10, Suggs is 15/50 from 3 and 71% from the ft line for the season. Why is it assumed that he is a good shooter?there is no guarantee he can come in and be a knock down high volume 3-point shooter. And if he can’t be that he shouldn’t be included with the elite prospects.

Why would you discount one of the best performances of the season against a top 10 team? Do we discount the one performance in which Cunningham recorded more than 5 assists against.........Oakland?

3pt:
Suggs: 22/60
Cunningham 30/71

That’s the hill you’re gonna die on? Cunningham is now down to 39% shooting in conference play, 52% TS. 3.3 assists and 4.7 turnovers per40. We won’t get into the defensive stuff, where Cunningham is average at best.

[Ruzious]

Get Mobley, and I'll settle for Butler and Mitchell of Baylor - and forget about Suggs and Cade, so we don't have to worry about which one's better.

Sucks that Baylor's not scheduled to play again until the 20th - we can't see our future backcourt. They're only 6'3 and 6'2, but they will both pester the heck out of the opposing backcourt. Hey, they're no smaller than Portland's great backcourt.

[prime1time]

Huh? Suggs is 22/60 from 3, just below 37%. 72% from the free throw line.

I’m curious, have you actually watched full games? Cunningham will shoot 5-22 and totally shoot his team in the foot, then make one 3 in double overtime and it’s the highlight on sports center all day. I’m not trying to be attacking, I’m genuinely curious. Have you watched multiple full Oklahoma state and Gonzaga games ?

Yes, Gonzaga is one of the best teams in the country. And Cunningham struggled and came through in the clutch vs Texas. Read my post, other than one outlier game when he went 7/10, Suggs is 15/50 from 3 and 71% from the ft line for the season. Why is it assumed that he is a good shooter?there is no guarantee he can come in and be a knock down high volume 3-point shooter. And if he can’t be that he shouldn’t be included with the elite prospects.

Why would you discount one of the best performances of the season against a top 10 team? Do we discount the one performance in which Cunningham recorded more than 5 assists against.........Oakland?

3pt:
Suggs: 22/60
Cunningham 30/71

That’s the hill you’re gonna die on? Cunningham is now down to 39% shooting in conference play, 52% TS. 3.3 assists and 4.7 turnovers per40. We won’t get into the defensive stuff, where Cunningham is average at best.

If a game is a statistical outlier, it should be discounted. Now, if he was consistently shooting high 30s every game, it would be another story. There are legitimate concerns about Suggs ability to shoot the ball. And if he can't shoot, he won't be a good propsect. Cunningham has 11 games of shooting 40% or more from 3. You can discount the assists from Oakland, but that's not the point. The point is can Cunningham create for others. All statistics are indicative of is that ability. Suggs, can be a great shooter in the NBA. The challenge is that we have to project him. For the vast majority of his games, Suggs has not shot well. That's the point. And an outlier performance should be discounted when evaluating for future ability.

If you're going to argue for Suggs, you need to explain why this should be overlooked. As far as Cunningham's assist totals go, it doesn't change how I evaluate him. His teammates are terrible. Assists aren't just a reflection of a player's ability, it's also a reflection of their teammate's ability compared to their opponents. Oakland was overmatched and it showed in Cunningham's assist totals. Against top-level teams, it's tough because his teammates are clearly worse.

The conference play digs at Cunningham are silly. He's the best player on the team and he's playing against highly ranked opponents. Switch Cunningham with Suggs. Let Cunningham play on a consensus top 3 team and Suggs play with lackluster talent. Let Cunningham play against the WAC and Suggs play against the Big 12. How do you think that would affect their stats? Regardless, this is not about Cunningham. It's about whether or not Suggs can be an elite shooter in the NBA. Because if he can't be, then he will not be a great pg. And he is overhyped.

[NatP4]

I never attempted to make the case that Suggs is an “elite” shooter, whatever that means. I am only interested in which one of Cunningham/Suggs is going to be the better NBA player.

I disagree with the premise that a player has to be an elite shooter to be an elite prospect. I also think 60-70 3pt attempts is far too small of a sample size to project anything.

[NatP4]

Get Mobley, and I'll settle for Butler and Mitchell of Baylor - and forget about Suggs and Cade, so we don't have to worry about which one's better.

Sucks that Baylor's not scheduled to play again until the 20th - we can't see our future backcourt. They're only 6'3 and 6'2, but they will both pester the heck out of the opposing backcourt. Hey, they're no smaller than Portland's great backcourt.

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Best guard duo in college basketball.

[Ruzious]

Get Mobley, and I'll settle for Butler and Mitchell of Baylor - and forget about Suggs and Cade, so we don't have to worry about which one's better.

Sucks that Baylor's not scheduled to play again until the 20th - we can't see our future backcourt. They're only 6'3 and 6'2, but they will both pester the heck out of the opposing backcourt. Hey, they're no smaller than Portland's great backcourt.

Read on Twitter

Best guard duo in college basketball.

Unfortunately, there are no secrets left by the time the draft comes. Mitchell seems to play with a controlled fury on both offense and defense. You can see he enjoys attacking the rim where he uses his explosive athleticism, but he's still developed a good 3 point shot.

[NatP4]

Get Mobley, and I'll settle for Butler and Mitchell of Baylor - and forget about Suggs and Cade, so we don't have to worry about which one's better.

Sucks that Baylor's not scheduled to play again until the 20th - we can't see our future backcourt. They're only 6'3 and 6'2, but they will both pester the heck out of the opposing backcourt. Hey, they're no smaller than Portland's great backcourt.

Read on Twitter

Best guard duo in college basketball.

Unfortunately, there are no secrets left by the time the draft comes. Mitchell seems to play with a controlled fury on both offense and defense. You can see he enjoys attacking the rim where he uses his explosive athleticism, but he's still developed a good 3 point shot.

How about: 37.1 points 7.3 rebounds 13.3 assists 6.4 steals between the two of them (per36)

Butler: 61.7% TS
Mitchell: 67.6% TS

[NatP4]

Daishen Nix is totally dominating this first G league ignite game. No one can keep him out of the paint. Has been the topic of the entire telecast so far

[NatP4]

First half observations:

Nix: unstoppable, got a little carried away hunting for his own shot after he got hot, but he basically bullied NBA caliber guards to the basket over and over. 11 points on 6 shots in the 1st half, made some nice passes, took care of the ball.

Green: awful. Total liability on defense, couldn’t guard anyone. Offensively he just puts his head down and drives right everytime. Looks like a high school player out there. Had to get pulled early in the 2nd quarter/rest of half for poor play.

Kuminga: by far the best player on the court. Man amongst boys. This dude is jacked. No one could really guard him. He got into the paint with ease and finished at the basket, made jumpshots, was dominant. It’s only been one half, but I was wrong on Kuminga. He’s legit

[NatP4]

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