Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[prime1time]

This is typical hyperbole. When a team loses fans need someone to scapegoat. Yes Simmons has shooting around him, but the truth is that he cannot co-exist with Embiid. There will always be tension. All of the other stuff you wrote has nothing to actually do with the topic at hand. Simmons needs a center like Brook Lopez and he needs to improve his shooting. He doesn't have to become an average shooter, he just can't be an abject disaster. The contract is tough but I'd take a chance on him. They are only so many elite talented players in the NBA. If he's on the block I trade for him and then try to turn him around. Beal/Simmons is a good starting point.

Ben not being able to co-exist with Embiid has been the narrative but I'm no longer buying it. It's deeper than that and it goes to Simmons shortcomings as a shooter and has less and less to do with Embiid's presence on the court.

We've been saying for years that Ben "needs to improve his shooting." And from what I've read and seen he works hard during the offseason to do just that. But I'm beginning to believe that Ben's shooting is never going to get much better...which at this point is downright awful. I hope I'm wrong because I like Ben.

Ben's shooting seems to not have improved one iota during his 4 plus years in the NBA. In fact, he's totally stopped trying to shoot outside of 4-5 feet of the basket. That's a problem...a big problem.

This has been my point all along when people talked about Simmons value vis a vis Beal.

You can't just ignore Simmons limitations and pretend project that his jumper is going come around eventually.

Beal is a far more valuable player.

At the end of the day getting stops is overrated. You have to be able to dig down and get buckets when the grind is on and you're not going to get away with consistently playing 4 on 5 on one end of the floor.

Simmons might be that dude one day, but you have to essentially build around him like he's non-floor spacing big and round out the roster with shooters.

Even then, it's not like he's got the elite ball handling to just run the offense as a PG in sets, can you really be successful with a player that's so limited offensively?

I have my doubts, and I'd categorically reject an even swap for Beal on the basis that this is a bailout move for the 76ers.

I'd want picks and I'd want Maxey and I might make the 76ers eat Bertans contract too.

We are not trading Beal, we are trading for Simmons so we can pair him with Beal. Beal/Simmons. No one is ignoring Simmons limitations via shooting. We are saying the Wizards are a better team if Ben Simmons is on it. And getting stops is not overrated. If Huerter hadn't stepped up, people would be crucifying Trae Young for coming up short in the biggest game in his career. SImmons legit shut him down. Simmons is the best wing defender in the league, period. WIll SImmons ever be an average shooter? Probably not. But that's not the question. Can he just get good enough to where hack-a-Simmons is not a viable option and he can be aggressive. Simmons on your roster gives you a chance to nullify the opponents elite star.

Watch on YouTube

Whether it be Doncic, Mitchell, Booker, Young, Tatum etc etc. Beal and Simmons is a pretty good starting point. Also, if his jumper is ever going to get improve it is going to be now. It's the lowest point of his career. Tbh, if I'm not giving up Beal, I'd be willing to give up almost anything to get Simmons to DC.

[doclinkin]

Ben Simmons is available for not much. I think he stinks, but I bet Tommy sees him as a “big swing”.

I’m enjoying PHX and ATL, they built the right way, had faith in Booker and Young and built wisely around them.

How does Simmons stink? His jumper is non-existent, but he's the same size of Daniel Gafford, can guard 1-5, is a great passer, defensive POY candidate. You give Simmons shooting and he can be a very effective player.

Absolutely!

I really don't understand this. You think Morey is going to trade Simmons for bottlecaps, b/c they lost to Atlanta? You're dreaming.

When your star and coach are casting doubt on a guy, there are going to be locker room and chemistry issues. Morey also has not had to deal with a rabid Philadelphia fanbase. Simmons is going to be incinerated by the Philly fan ire. Weak will and mental fortitude are not something they will stand for. The guy won't be able to step out of a car without Philly fan being a jackass and shouting something. For a guy accused of lacking toughness, well, if true it is unlikely to be improved by having to hide in his house during the season. Morey isn't stupid but he will likely have to explore all trade options, less under pressure from the media/fans in his case, and more from internal pressures. If Ben wants out or Embiid doesn't want to play with the guy, there will be a trade. He's been forced to trade before (chemistry issues with Harden/CP3)

Given Simmons' massive contract (5TH most guaranteed $ in the league) any offers they receive will surely be unbalanced. Morey will likely try to rehab Simmons' value by playing him a few good games in the regular season. But if chem problems are evident he may be forced to take the best of the worst and move on.

[queridiculo]

@primet1me you are joking if you think that any asset outside of Beal is going land us Simmons.

I find it interesting that you bring up Young's struggles in the same sentence as you mention Huerter to counter my argument about the value of shot making.

Hello?

[nate33]

Bill Simmons said on his podcast last night, with certainty, that Ben Simmons will not be on the Sixers next year.

[nate33]

@primet1me you are joking if you think that any asset outside of Beal is going land us Simmons.

I really don't believe Simmons' trade value is all that high any more. Nobody wants to pay a max contract to a guy they're not quite sure can stay on the floor in crunch time of a playoff game.

I don't want to go too far and say that Simmons is a negative value contract or anything, but I really don't think the Sixers can expect to get a Beal-level player in return. They're going to have to aim lower. And they're going to have to move him this summer with the way his coach and teammates have openly called him out in post-game interviews.

Simmons is done in Philly. He is ripe for a lowball offer.

Westbrook and stuff might be one of the better offers on the table. We shall see. They're going to want a guy who can create off the bounce and set other players up. The best option for Philly is probably Simmons for McCollum, but it is far from certain that Portland will pull the trigger on that. After that, they're looking at guys like D'Angelo Russell or Kemba Walker, at which point Westbrook starts looking pretty good.

[mhd]

@primet1me you are joking if you think that any asset outside of Beal is going land us Simmons.

I really don't believe Simmons' trade value is all that high any more. Nobody wants to pay a max contract to a guy they're not quite sure can stay on the floor in crunch time of a playoff game.

I don't want to go too far and say that Simmons is a negative value contract or anything, but I really don't think the Sixers can expect to get a Beal-level player in return. They're going to have to aim lower. And they're going to have to move him this summer with the way his coach and teammates have openly called him out in post-game interviews.

Simmons is done in Philly. He is ripe for a lowball offer.

Westbrook and stuff might be one of the better offers on the table. We shall see. They're going to want a guy who can create off the bounce and set other players up. The best option for Philly is probably Simmons for McCollum, but it is far from certain that Portland will pull the trigger on that. After that, they're looking at guys like D'Angelo Russell or Kemba Walker, at which point Westbrook starts looking pretty good.

IMO, Philly would have to add value in a Westbrook swap. At least Russ expires two years sooner. Simmons is mentally scared. What's stopping every team from hacking him constantly to get him out of the game? No matter how good he is on defense, he's unplayable (as we saw in the 4th quarters) in the playoffs. We lacked the size to defend him (Brooks kept his idiotic 3 PG lineup).

Philly should consider Wall, and I'm not joking. Wall is an elite passer who can run an offense. Its a gamble, but it probably the one deal that wouldn't require them to send out value.

[nate33]

@primet1me you are joking if you think that any asset outside of Beal is going land us Simmons.

I really don't believe Simmons' trade value is all that high any more. Nobody wants to pay a max contract to a guy they're not quite sure can stay on the floor in crunch time of a playoff game.

I don't want to go too far and say that Simmons is a negative value contract or anything, but I really don't think the Sixers can expect to get a Beal-level player in return. They're going to have to aim lower. And they're going to have to move him this summer with the way his coach and teammates have openly called him out in post-game interviews.

Simmons is done in Philly. He is ripe for a lowball offer.

Westbrook and stuff might be one of the better offers on the table. We shall see. They're going to want a guy who can create off the bounce and set other players up. The best option for Philly is probably Simmons for McCollum, but it is far from certain that Portland will pull the trigger on that. After that, they're looking at guys like D'Angelo Russell or Kemba Walker, at which point Westbrook starts looking pretty good.

IMO, Philly would have to add value in a Westbrook swap. At least Russ expires two years sooner. Simmons is mentally scared. What's stopping every team from hacking him constantly to get him out of the game? No matter how good he is on defense, he's unplayable (as we saw in the 4th quarters) in the playoffs. We lacked the size to defend him (Brooks kept his idiotic 3 PG lineup).

Philly should consider Wall, and I'm not joking. Wall is an elite passer who can run an offense. Its a gamble, but it probably the one deal that wouldn't require them to send out value.

You are overstating it. Simmons has lots of very valuable skills. His FT shooting late in games is a real concern, but he is not unplayable as long as he is the only non-shooter on the floor.

Philly definitely shouldn't trade him for Wall because Wall will forever be a shadow of his former self because of the injury. He won't stay healthy. They do need to trade him for a ball-handing guard who has some ability to generate easier shots for teammates. Westbrook actually makes some sense. He only has a couple of prime years left, but I don't think Philly is banking on Embiid being an elite player for the next decade. I think Embiid's days are numbered too, so the future is now for Philly.

Another trade I heard that makes some sense is Simmons for Gordon Hayward.

At any rate, I'd absolutely trade Westbrook for Simmons, and I'd include an asset. Preferably, that asset is Avdija, but I'd also consider Hachimura.

[Tyrone Messby]

Simmons hasn’t changed at all from his time with LSU. He is a mental midget. Having said that, if we could dump Westbrook for him I’d do it. But I’d rather we just tear it all down and build around Deni, Rui, Gafford, and Bryant.

[mhd]

I really don't believe Simmons' trade value is all that high any more. Nobody wants to pay a max contract to a guy they're not quite sure can stay on the floor in crunch time of a playoff game.

I don't want to go too far and say that Simmons is a negative value contract or anything, but I really don't think the Sixers can expect to get a Beal-level player in return. They're going to have to aim lower. And they're going to have to move him this summer with the way his coach and teammates have openly called him out in post-game interviews.

Simmons is done in Philly. He is ripe for a lowball offer.

Westbrook and stuff might be one of the better offers on the table. We shall see. They're going to want a guy who can create off the bounce and set other players up. The best option for Philly is probably Simmons for McCollum, but it is far from certain that Portland will pull the trigger on that. After that, they're looking at guys like D'Angelo Russell or Kemba Walker, at which point Westbrook starts looking pretty good.

IMO, Philly would have to add value in a Westbrook swap. At least Russ expires two years sooner. Simmons is mentally scared. What's stopping every team from hacking him constantly to get him out of the game? No matter how good he is on defense, he's unplayable (as we saw in the 4th quarters) in the playoffs. We lacked the size to defend him (Brooks kept his idiotic 3 PG lineup).

Philly should consider Wall, and I'm not joking. Wall is an elite passer who can run an offense. Its a gamble, but it probably the one deal that wouldn't require them to send out value.

You are overstating it. Simmons has lots of very valuable skills. His FT shooting late in games is a real concern, but he is not unplayable as long as he is the only non-shooter on the floor.

Philly definitely shouldn't trade him for Wall because Wall will forever be a shadow of his former self because of the injury. He won't stay healthy. They do need to trade him for a ball-handing guard who has some ability to generate easier shots for teammates. Westbrook actually makes some sense. He only has a couple of prime years left, but I don't think Philly is banking on Embiid being an elite player for the next decade. I think Embiid's days are numbered too, so the future is now for Philly.

Another trade I heard that makes some sense is Simmons for Gordon Hayward.

At any rate, I'd absolutely trade Westbrook for Simmons, and I'd include an asset. Preferably, that asset is Avdija, but I'd also consider Hachimura.

I don't know Nate. One thing you can't teach is work ethic. Simmons seems like the Anti-Arenas. He's been in the league 5+ years, and still hasn't developed a jumper (something everyone knew he needed). He wasn't even taking blame yesterday. Was so blah after the game. He's a GREAT defender (would help us tremendously on that end), but he can't help you win IMO with his passive nature in close games. In a Westbrook swap (it would have to include Hill for salary ballast), I'd want Philly's late first frankly. We're sending out value IMO and not them due to the mental state of Simmons and the current circumstances of Philly (where they have to trade him).

[Dat2U]

I'm ALL in on making a play for Ben. I think you can build something really good around Beal & Simmons and you can also extend the timeline beyond the 2 year window Russ has. Pairing an elite defender/passer with an elite scorer screams good synergy. Add a legit 2nd option beyond that and you got the makings of a contender. With Beal/Westbrook the window & path to contention seems narrow af and probably unlikely. This is a calculated risk worth taking if you can.

[Dat2U]

@primet1me you are joking if you think that any asset outside of Beal is going land us Simmons.

I really don't believe Simmons' trade value is all that high any more. Nobody wants to pay a max contract to a guy they're not quite sure can stay on the floor in crunch time of a playoff game.

I don't want to go too far and say that Simmons is a negative value contract or anything, but I really don't think the Sixers can expect to get a Beal-level player in return. They're going to have to aim lower. And they're going to have to move him this summer with the way his coach and teammates have openly called him out in post-game interviews.

Simmons is done in Philly. He is ripe for a lowball offer.

Westbrook and stuff might be one of the better offers on the table. We shall see. They're going to want a guy who can create off the bounce and set other players up. The best option for Philly is probably Simmons for McCollum, but it is far from certain that Portland will pull the trigger on that. After that, they're looking at guys like D'Angelo Russell or Kemba Walker, at which point Westbrook starts looking pretty good.

IMO, Philly would have to add value in a Westbrook swap. At least Russ expires two years sooner. Simmons is mentally scared. What's stopping every team from hacking him constantly to get him out of the game? No matter how good he is on defense, he's unplayable (as we saw in the 4th quarters) in the playoffs. We lacked the size to defend him (Brooks kept his idiotic 3 PG lineup).

Philly should consider Wall, and I'm not joking. Wall is an elite passer who can run an offense. Its a gamble, but it probably the one deal that wouldn't require them to send out value.

Simmons is 24 and a yearly DPOY candidate with elite passing skills. He also can rebound at a high level. Yes his value has taken a hit ... but I seriously doubt Philly would have to trade assets to move him.

I'd happily give up Russ for him and I wouldn't let Deni or Rui be the reason I didn't make the deal.

[payitforward]

How does Simmons stink? His jumper is non-existent, but he's the same size of Daniel Gafford, can guard 1-5, is a great passer, defensive POY candidate. You give Simmons shooting and he can be a very effective player.

Simmons had Embiid and a roster full of shooters and he still couldn’t help his team beat a 5th seed at home in game 7 in the conference semis. Simmons is not an awful player in theory but he’s basically a worse shooting Draymond Green without having the added benefit of having Steph Curry, and to a lesser extent Klay Thompson, to play with. And he makes max money so you and everyone else around here that wants him are high.die I mention he has an ego and dates the likes of the Kardashians. Red **** alert on bad judgement.

This is typical hyperbole. When a team loses fans need someone to scapegoat. Yes Simmons has shooting around him, but the truth is that he cannot co-exist with Embiid. There will always be tension. All of the other stuff you wrote has nothing to actually do with the topic at hand. Simmons needs a center like Brook Lopez and he needs to improve his shooting. He doesn't have to become an average shooter, he just can't be an abject disaster. The contract is tough but I'd take a chance on him. They are only so many elite talented players in the NBA. If he's on the block I trade for him and then try to turn him around. Beal/Simmons is a good starting point.

Prime is 100% right.

Anyway, the issue is not "shooter" -- it's "scorer." Basketball isn't archery. Simmons posted a .586 TS% this year, comfortably above average for a PG. The rest of what he does, esp. rebounding, is hyper-elite.

Nor did he have anything to do with the loss to Atlanta! Embiid turned the ball over 8 times. Harris went 8-24, & Philly's bench went 5-15. So much for their "roster full of shooters." Meanwhile, Collins finally had a big game, & Huerter did too.

Philly turned the ball over 7 more times than Atlanta, & they put Atlanta on the line an extra 7 times as well. End of story.

[payitforward]

Simmons is 24 and a yearly DPOY candidate with elite passing skills. He also can rebound at a high level. Yes his value has taken a hit ... but I seriously doubt Philly would have to trade assets to move him.

I'd happily give up Russ for him and I wouldn't let Deni or Rui be the reason I didn't make the deal.

Absolutely! But Daryl Morey isn't making that trade.

Morey didn't want to trade for Westbrook in Houston last year. The owner insisted on the deal. He's not giving up Simmons to get him this year! & I don't think Rui or Deni would make him more interested.

[prime1time]

Simmons was literally refusing to take a layup/dunk. With 4 years on his max contract and the need money to build a very particular team around him I’d question what his trade value is. Whatever it was before that series it is much lower now. I don’t know why they want him, but I’m not giving up Beal and if they are demanding too much I move on. The whole idea is you’re buying low. The key question is how much do they want.

[TGW]

The trade board is discussing Simmons for McCollum + Covington. Sounds about right in value IMO.

[DCZards]

Prime is 100% right.

Anyway, the issue is not "shooter" -- it's "scorer." Basketball isn't archery. Simmons posted a .586 TS% this year, comfortably above average for a PG. The rest of what he does, esp. rebounding, is hyper-elite.

Nor did he have anything to do with the loss to Atlanta! Embiid turned the ball over 8 times. Harris went 8-24, & Philly's bench went 5-15. So much for their "roster full of shooters." Meanwhile, Collins finally had a big game, & Huerter did too.

Philly turned the ball over 7 more times than Atlanta, & they put Atlanta on the line an extra 7 times as well. End of story.

I'm not gonna blame the Sixers lost on Simmons...but it's crazy to suggest he did not have "anything to do with the loss."

When your allegedly second-best player (who makes max money) takes 4 shots (and scores 5pts) in a 7th game in your building that's a problem that you just can't whitewash and say had nothing to do with your team losing.

With the game on the line Philly was essentially forced to take the ball out of Ben's hands and give it to a rookie (Maxey). That speaks volumes.

I'd be on board for trading Russ for Simmons but I'm not so sure I'd be willing to add either Deni or Rui to that trade.

[DCZards]

The trade board is discussing Simmons for McCollum + Covington. Sounds about right in value IMO.

That's a good trade for Philly. You get a shooter in McCollum and a guy who is almost as good as Simmons on D in Covington. Plus Covington can make 3s which is something that Ben will never be able to do.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

How does Simmons stink? His jumper is non-existent, but he's the same size of Daniel Gafford, can guard 1-5, is a great passer, defensive POY candidate. You give Simmons shooting and he can be a very effective player.

Simmons had Embiid and a roster full of shooters and he still couldn’t help his team beat a 5th seed at home in game 7 in the conference semis. Simmons is not an awful player in theory but he’s basically a worse shooting Draymond Green without having the added benefit of having Steph Curry, and to a lesser extent Klay Thompson, to play with. And he makes max money so you and everyone else around here that wants him are high.die I mention he has an ego and dates the likes of the Kardashians. Red **** alert on bad judgement.

This is typical hyperbole. When a team loses fans need someone to scapegoat. Yes Simmons has shooting around him, but the truth is that he cannot co-exist with Embiid. There will always be tension. All of the other stuff you wrote has nothing to actually do with the topic at hand. Simmons needs a center like Brook Lopez and he needs to improve his shooting. He doesn't have to become an average shooter, he just can't be an abject disaster. The contract is tough but I'd take a chance on him. They are only so many elite talented players in the NBA. If he's on the block I trade for him and then try to turn him around. Beal/Simmons is a good starting point.

It is not hyperbole when he’s had the same issues for quite some time and hasn’t improved at all in those areas of need. I also think his ego is relevant in that he has been completely resistant to make even incremental improvements to his shooting. Dating a Kardashian to me further begets the ego point. And he needs a Brook Lopez instead of an Embiid? Someone who will clog the paint even more than Embiid? I assume you say that because a Lopez wouldn’t demand the touches but the notion on a whole seems a bit absurd that we would need to cater to him to that degree given that he’s “oozing with talent.”

But hey maybe I’m wrong about all of this, and a change of scenery to a team with less shooting and a world class big man would be better for Simmons.

[nate33]

The trade board is discussing Simmons for McCollum + Covington. Sounds about right in value IMO.

That's a good trade for Philly. You get a shooter in McCollum and a guy who is almost as good as Simmons on D in Covington. Plus Covington can make 3s which is something that Ben will never be able to do.

Yeah, I definitely would not do that from Portland's perspective. I'm not sure if Simmons is all that much of an upgrade over Covington. Certainly the difference between the two isn't worth McCollum.

If I'm Portland, I'd be angling for something like McCollum + Nassir Little for Simmons + Maxey

[Rafael122]

The issue I have with CJ for Simmons is that CJ is just a more expensive version of Seth Curry, and CJ doesn't play defense. So you're getting more offense, but you're taking a hit defensively.