Official Workout/Fitness Thread (Re-born)

[willbcocks]

20:00 is fast! You should probably listen to those who actually know what they're talking about instead of me, but I would recommend maybe doing fewer days per week but going harder at it (or do the 1.5 every day but consider it a warm-up and do 2-3 taining days a week.

I got up to that pace (4800m in 19:00) in a couple months but was doing one long jog (6-8 k, plus a few more K's in warmup/cooldown) and one day of interval runs per week (3k warmup + 5-6K doing a rotation of 200m at 13k/h, 500m at 16 k/h, 100m at 13k/h, 200 m walk). And I think I'm younger and faster than dobro, so you won't have that advantage on me!

Dobro: So half-rest is literally half the rest? That's what I feared. My problem is that I rest an arbitrary amount, so half that is, well, still arbitrary.

[verbal8]

My annual foray into the realm of triathlon is Sunday. We'll see
how this goes.

What triathlon are you doing?

[dobrojim]

Reston

this will be my 17th consecutive year of doing this race. It's a great
race with a lot of community spirit. Doing the tri the first time was
what got me launched into road running. It was all downhill from there.

[dobrojim]

willb

what I do is set my watch for what my 200 interval should be at the
beginning of the workout. Actually first I very slowly jog a mile (4 laps).
Then I set my countdown timer on the watch to my 200 interval (48 sec
right now, I'll need to adjust it faster soon). The timer counts down
repeatedly so it's constantly running. When I do the 200s, I do have to
do a stop, reset, to the 48 sec at or about 24 secs. But then when I
do a 400 or 800, it's simple. First of all, my watch beeps at me right
when I should be halfway around a given lap so I know if my pace is to fast/slow.
Then on a 400, it beeps when I finish. The next time it beeps, I have to start again.
On the 800s you obviously get 2 cycles of beeps before you have to run again.
Also on the 800s you get beeps again at that 200 m interval so you know
how you're doing.

The nice thing about the pyramid is that once you get past the
800s and start back on the shorter intervals, it all seems really easy.

The hardest thing about the method I'm using is the need to
re-measure your vVO2max periodically. Running as hard as you
can for 6 minutes is painful. But doing regular intervals will
definitely improve your running economy and your vVO2max.
As it improves, you gotta downward adjust those interval times.

I need to add some hill repeats to my regimen. Marine Corp starts
with a long uphill from Rosslyn to Spout Run, then another hill up
from Canal Rd around the reservoir back to G'town. After that there
is precious little in the way of real vertical to overcome. Fortunately
Reston has a number of possible hills on which to practice repeats.

Tri this weekend
Probably the Wilson Br half marathon next weekend.
a 50k Big Schloss (great party!) in WV the weekend after that
a 10k (tuneup race) Boo Run for Life down on Hains Pt Oct 10.
Then Marine Corp 3 weeks after that.
Then either Richmond Marathon Nov 11-12 or this new 50 miler in
upper Mont Co the weekend before T'giving.

[nate33]

Had a kick-ass run today at lunch:

1 mile (warm-up) at 8:01 pace
2:00 rest (stretched)

1 mile at 6:58 pace
2:00 rest (easy walk)

1 mile at 5:53 pace
2:00 rest (easy walk)

1 mile at 6:01 pace
2:00 rest (easy walk)

2 miles at 7:00 pace
cooldown

[dobrojim]

awesome

I doubt I could run a sub 6 mile right now. It might be close
but not quite there.

[nate33]

awesome

I doubt I could run a sub 6 mile right now. It might be close
but not quite there.

I really surprised myself. I hadn't run a timed mile race since high school. I wasn't in track or anything, but I took a physical training class one semester in which we ran twice a week. Back then, I ran a mile in 5:58.

I'm now faster than I was in high school. Based on my workout time, I figure I could probably run a mile in about 5:30 in race conditions.

[montestewart]

I've got to figure that the fastest I could ever run would be if someone was chasing me with a knife, and still, I couldn't come close to those times.

Pretty impressive to me what you all do.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

monte, my strategy was since I can't run far (but like most brother's I have "get out out the club, cuz they shoot'n" speed) I better try and learn to fight like hell.

Just the other day, a pastor friend from a local church I haven't visited in a while was sitting in Starbucks. I thought he was really busy or didn't like me any more for whatever reason, because I thought he saw me and didn't speak. After a few minutes I went and spoke with him enthusiastically as I always do. Funny thing is he thought it might be me but said to himself, "I don't want to go up to him and have that guy beat me up." (The Starbucks is by the local gym I go to--he's probably used to seeing me in church clothes, and a bit heavier). We got a good laugh about that.

CCJ fitness update: Since losing 14 pounds in August, I've lost 6 pounds the first 10 days of September. Lost 20 pounds in six weeks, and right on schedule.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've been working out heavily for 3 years straight now, here is a good routine which will completeyl transform you. I was never completely out of shape, but definitely had lost some of my physical appeal. This will get it back for you.......this is real world advice that actually helps. I have actually been offered personal assistant jobs in french gyms (ha). Of course they have no idea I would be horrible at it, but it is testament to the fact that this works....

STARTING OFF
--------------------
1. Join a gym with weights (machines are just as good as free weights) and a pool, and elliptical machines..........
2. Start off with a serious weight training regimen. As you are starting off, don't buy into the hype of taking days off to give your muscles rest. The first week you'll be in pain, so do take a few days off in you're too sore, otherwise the first 2 months you can lift weights every day. You won't be doing a heavy pound level which will hurt you. This is really just for some toning and preparation for serious weight training.
3. Eat 1500 calories or less daily for the first 2 months (men). Start ignoring the fat content more, and pay attention to the CALORIES. If you want to get in shape, calories are the key. Ignore the low fat stuff, it will blow you up just as quick if not quicker than the normal stuff.
4. Don't eat breads, pasta and rice.......period. Pasta and bread especially. And don't think brown rice has less calories, it doesn't.
5. If you must eat bread, get the 100 calorie breads (they are thin, 50 calories per slice) they have in groceries these days and just make a sandwich using one half of the slice. Put on some fat free bologna and half a slice of low cal cheese and a sandwich will be under 100 calories. Just don't eat 5 of them or it's the same damn thing as a normal fattening sandwich.
6. Eat slower......much slower.
7. Make 1-2 days a week juice fasts. Put the juice in a blender with ice and eat it with a spoon. Makes it seem more like a meal.

First 6 weeks at the gym:
-----------------------------------
1. Focus on full body workouts. Don't rotate muscle groups the first two months. Hit everything. Try doing two types of exercise per muscle. Start off at one set, then move up to two sets after the first two weeks when you feel good and not so sore.

Biceps:
Standard curl machine 2 sets 10x/8x
Concentration curl with light dumbbells 10x/8x
Triceps:
Machine pulldown 2 sets 10/8x
Back: Machine Lat pulldown 2 sets 10x/8x
Chest:
Chest machine 2 sets 10x/8x
Shoulders:
Machine Shoulder press 2 sets 10x/8x
Legs:
Leg extension 2 sets 10x/8x
Leg press 2 sets 10x/8x
Calf press using leg press 2 sets 10x/8x/
Abs:
Hanging leg raises 2 sets 5x (will be hard at first but will get you the strongest fastest down there.
Cross body cable pulls: (use cable machine, set cable at a bit less than shoulder height, grip with hand closest to machine and put other hand on top of gripped hand, pull across body keeping arms straight around shoulder level. This will really strengthen your side abs. Do both sides. Avoid crunches until you build up enough muscle and lose enough fat to make it worthwhile. In the beginning I'd just focus on building core strength, there's no definition to be had down there with crunches until you are in shape regardless.

General Stuff
------------------
Keep the weights light the first month, and after your soreness is gone you can move up steadily. Once you reach a decent amount of weight, you'll begin to be sore doing full body workouts the next day after 6 weeks. At that point you can do what I do, intense full body workouts, with a day rest in between, or rotate muscle groups. Personally I prefer full body workouts with the days off, but to each their own.

Regardless, you need to do 45 minutes of cardio 5-6 days a week. I suggest swimming, it is a weight traning and cardio exercise at once. You will see major differences doing 20-30 minutes of swimming 5 times a week vs 30-45 minute elliptical or jogging sessions. Your goal is to get fit and lean, not just lose weight and be flabby like a lot of initial joggers or elliptical types you see out there. Weights/swimming/low calories is the key here.

Also, TAKE A GOOD MULTIVITAMIN DAILY! I can't stress the importance of this, been taking a multivitamin daily with nary a day missed for 5 years. If I do miss a day I feel like crap!

This is an extremely enjoyable workout and makes you feel like a million bucks if you stick with it........join a nice gym and just have fun. At home workouts even if they work are temporary, P90X included. You need to make it part of your lifestyle instead of trying to integrate it into your home life.

I typed that extremely quickly, but anyone from 190 pounds looking to become muscular, to someone 250 looking to get down to 180 and muscular will succeed on the above plan.

For anyone out there already more advanced and want a more hardcore weight traning/cardio plan lemme know happy to share mine.

Induveca, this post has been on my mind a while and I wanted to repost it because it's sound strategy.

Just like you've had a lot of success in the business world, you definitely know what you're talking about in terms of fitness. (And other things ...)

My plan is progressing nicely so far. Lose some weight...... Next comes boost it with (temporary fix) P90X to lose more weight, radically reshape, and tone up everywhere. Last, follow a modified lifelong strategy from what Induve laid out above.

Weight training all the time for cardio and strength, with plenty of flexibility and yoga training worked in. Lots of hoops, too, achilles permitting, in time. THANKS, INDUVECA!

And now, my joke of the day.:

Don't you just hate religious freaks who get on their pious trips and lose touch with reality? Everything is them and God and how they're all this and everybody else is going straight to hell.

[Induveca]

CCJ first off, thanks for the compliment. Was hoping that post helped some people!

It's just logical stuff that can kind of get lost in the mix with all the get in shape fast crap out there. From what you posted I'd only have two concerns:

1. Cardio wise, hoops is fun, but if you want to negate the risk of derailing your entire rejuvenation plan.......try to stay away from running and competitive sports where the risk is high at this stage. Getting into shape/rescuing your body is far more important. Once you reach where you want to be, it will be fun to get out there and compete again. Stick with swimming and elliptical until you are in really good shape. They both work a lot more muscles than running. Besides, do your best to get in shape, but STRONG, don't fall into the cardio/runner vibe of getting in shape. Running makes you lose weight, but generally leaves you with a pretty unappealing physique for the ladies.

Again, if you get 40% to where you want to be and break your ankle or tear your achilles.....you're done. The ROI wouldn't be there for me personally.

2. Very careful with the P90X approach, I'd say 80% of people I know who have gone that route burn out and give up completely. It's not something you maintain throughout life, it's a quick fix that fails long term.

If you want any other advice, especially on weight lifting let me know. I know some really great routines, and ways to not injure yourself as you are moving up in weight.

[w dumseld]

I've been hating on some Nate lately. Not because of his determination to always be objective in the face of Grunfeld's mediocrity. No, its because earlier in this thread someone skinny complained about not being able to put on weight and Nate suggested doing P90x and drinking a protein shake afterwards and they would no longer be a beanpole. Being 6'4" and only weighing 165lb, I thought I would give it a try. I've always been a so-called hard gainer. Never weighed more than 170lb no matter how hard I worked out or seemed to eat. Well I'm now on day 49 of P90x and have put on 15lbs so far and feel great. The increase in muscle in obvious and I'm only a little over half way through. 180 was always my goal but I've also discovered that 6'4" 180lbs is still really skinny. Slim pickens but a whole lot better than 165lb. Plus I'm a lot more flexible and my wind is much better.

Anyway, I'd never heard of P90x until Nate mentioned it and have been hating on him because the workout has been kicking my skinny ass virtually every day. The first 30 days were really rough. For better or for worse, I'm in an industry where I have to work 80 hour weeks and competing with the Japanese and now Chinese keeps my crazy busy. So any free time goes to the family. So I started P90x pretty much out of shape. But I'm ecstatic about the results and love the program. Even though doing the Ab Ripper X on the days after working legs and back I feel like I've lost the will to live. I've never sweat like that in my life. If you are 20 its one thing, but for an out of shape 40 year old its a butt whooping good time. TH keeps it real in YogaX also. By the time I get through twisting half moon, am really really feeling it.

My only suggestion would be to be careful with the plyometrics. I now skip the 180 jump turns. Tweaked my knee on that exercise and its just not worth it. Again, that stuff is fine if you are 20, but as Shaq said - 39 ain't 29 bro. Otherwise an awesome workout.

Induveca, I'm feeling your comments. I think you are a highly disciplined and organized person, plus you know a lot about working out. so you can set up and keep a sophisticated and synergystic workout program. But for the average person, P90x adds a lot of structure and guidance that really helps them to stick to a good workout and to learn how to work out properly and to discover where their limits really are. But I can see why 80% of the people you know give up. You've really got to be motivated and have a goal in mind to get through it. Some will power is required more or less. The changes are dramatic, but I see your point that longer term you need a regular workout program. And I think CCJ wrote that he's just using P90x as a stepping stone of sorts. But I'd be really interested in learning your lessons on increasing weight without getting hurt. Injuries are the one setback I fear the most.

If there are any other hard gainers out there, I've learned some tricks for putting on weight that really work so happy to share them. I'm sure most of the rest of you have no problem at all putting on weight...

[willbcocks]

Major brain fart at the gym today. I tried doing the pyramid run but I must have been in a fog because I remembered it as: 2x200, 2x400, 2x600, 2x800, 2x600, 2x400, 2x200. I remember thinking "god, that seems like an awful lot" before starting, but went on anyway.

Needless to say, after finishing the 2 consecutive 600s I realized this was hopeless and decided to go down the pyramid. After the 3 and 4th 400s, I nearly **** myself (literally) and couldn't even finish the last 2 200's. I think in the end I did the same distance I was supposed to, but felt a lot worse for it. Pace was 18k/h.

6'4 165 and can't gain weight? Yeah that might be a little skinny, but I think a lot of people, myself included, would be jealous of the ability to eat anything you want and dunk a basketball (?). Also, since you lived in Tokyo and now Hong Kong(?), it's not like being thin hurts with the ladies...

[w dumseld]

I could dunk but those days are over. As that Desidarata poem says, we need to gently let go of the things of youth. As you suggested, was way too skinny for American women. But in Asia its a virtue. Probably one of the main reasons I came out here. They used to tell me in Japan that I had a face like a little bird, which would drive me crazy cause I thought they were joning, but turned out its a compliment. One tip is to tell a Japanese girl she is mabushii. It means to be bright like the morning sun, and works like a charm. I'm sure you don't need any help, but as an experiment just try it out. Mabushii ne, omae wa!

I also read about your studying Chinese all summer for some short phone interview. Don't worry about that. You study so you can get better at communicating with the Chinese, that is all that matters. I passed HSK level 10 and not too many Laowai's could claim that back in 1998, but that and 50 cents can get me a cup of coffee. On the other hand, through all that studying I got fluent in Mandarin, and that has made all the difference in the world.

[willbcocks]

Bird face eh? I'm assuming they mean a slender one, not an owl.

I'm not interested in the HSK (10 is ridiculous, no?), nor tests in general, but the one I just took was immensely important. I've got a "tentative offer of employment" from the US Foreign Service, placing me on list of job candidates ranked according to score. The bonus points that passing the Chinese test would give me will almost certainly make-or-break my chances. If I failed this time (which I doubt, I'll find out in a couple days), I can take it again in 6/12 months, but I'll have to pass it eventually.

Luckily, the test just tests your level of spoken Chinese fluency--there is no writing/reading component, no need to memorize 4 character phrases or poetry, etc--so all my study was fluency building. Good example of my studying: a conversation with my tutor about how love hotels would be immensely profitable in China if only the government allowed them. I'm sure you'd agree...

[nate33]

w dumsfeld,

Much respect for you doing the P90X. I've done a few of the workouts at my buddy's house, but I've never tried the entire program. I'm glad it's working for you. (I'm thinking of doing it after my marathon, but for now, marathon training plus P90X would mean certain death.)

I did my longest long run of my life yesterday, 20 miles. It actually seemed easier than the 17-mile run I did two weeks ago. I held a 7:59 pace overall and had the energy left to hold a 7:20 pace over the last 2 miles. My hip flexors and calves are a little sore today but no biggie. I'll be close to 100% by tomorrow.

The Columbus Marathon is in 5 weeks!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ first off, thanks for the compliment. Was hoping that post helped some people!

It's just logical stuff that can kind of get lost in the mix with all the get in shape fast crap out there. From what you posted I'd only have two concerns:

1. Cardio wise, hoops is fun, but if you want to negate the risk of derailing your entire rejuvenation plan.......try to stay away from running and competitive sports where the risk is high at this stage. Getting into shape/rescuing your body is far more important. Once you reach where you want to be, it will be fun to get out there and compete again. Stick with swimming and elliptical until you are in really good shape. They both work a lot more muscles than running. Besides, do your best to get in shape, but STRONG, don't fall into the cardio/runner vibe of getting in shape. Running makes you lose weight, but generally leaves you with a pretty unappealing physique for the ladies.

Again, if you get 40% to where you want to be and break your ankle or tear your achilles.....you're done. The ROI wouldn't be there for me personally.

2. Very careful with the P90X approach, I'd say 80% of people I know who have gone that route burn out and give up completely. It's not something you maintain throughout life, it's a quick fix that fails long term.

If you want any other advice, especially on weight lifting let me know. I know some really great routines, and ways to not injure yourself as you are moving up in weight.

Dude, it's like you're psychic!

Generally, in order to prevent injury I only shoot at the basket of my local gym when NOBODY is out there. Yesterday, I shot by myself a good 30-35 minutes hoisting up three-point-range shots and retrieving the ball without rest repeatedly to the point of mild exhaustion. Before I could head off the court a guy I recognized showed up and challenged me to a game. I explained I was done, but when he said how about a game of H-O-R-S-E? I said okay. (Really, I was tired enough that even that wasn't a great idea. You can roll an ankle, pull a hamstring or worse trying too hard!) Turned out okay after two games of that and I left. However ...

Years ago, I ruptured my achilles under eerily similar circumstances. I started off just shooting around by myself and had done that a long time when a friend came onto the court wanting to play. I'm tired, I need to lose a lot more weight before I started running games, and didn't want to play. But the friend insisted. So, I start playing 2 on 2. I surprised myself at how well I played at 5'8" and 240 going against folks who were in pretty decent shape and who played a lot. I hadn't played any competive ball at that point in years but was more than holding my own. At that realization, and after getting lost in the joy of playing, I really went for it and did some kind of explosive movement while going for a rebound. Big mistake. Next thing you know there's loud pop, pain, and I'm done with the achilles rupture.

Yesterday morning I only played two games of horse agaisnt a guy who told me his record for consecutive FTs was 78 in a row. Needless to say the old dude waxed me (but you know I worked and didn't want to go home and tried to keep him making deep shots). Next thing you know we're talking story and the guy's telling me he wants to know if I can meet him on the racquetball court (where I was competitive enough in the past to tear my rotator cuff years back.). Induveca, the guy is just too competitive for me not to hurt myself trying to beat him.

Once again, you're offering sage advice. I'm gonna smile and wave and immediately leave the court when I see him. I'm trying to attain a goal and not get hurt acting unwisely.

Yesterday, after showering and leaving the gym went and did something else later. Went on a power walk by the beach (only about 2 miles, but at a good pace). My other achilles gave me a tinge to where I slowed down and thought about it. After that, I did a recreational, very short swim. Cool, salty water was the best at the end of that day.

In retrospect, even that was too much on my legs for just one day. I need to be very mindful that my build and my exuberance can work against me.

Induveca, I also hear you on the P90X approach. I'm not even going to get it until I've lost over 35 pounds from my really out of shape weight of 6 weeks ago, and when I'm already in some semblance of shape. Even then I will do every unfamiliar/difficult movement at a modified pace. And I will order it knowing I'm not the type to stick with anything 6 days a week over 90 days.

[dobrojim]

did my 17th consecutive year/finish in the Reston Triathlon Sunday
I had a mediocre swim and bike but a halfway decent run to finish
14th/40 in my 5 year age-group.

Half marathon next week. Intervals later this week.

[nate33]

did my 17th consecutive year/finish in the Reston Triathlon Sunday
I had a mediocre swim and bike but a halfway decent run to finish
14th/40 in my 5 year age-group.

Half marathon next week. Intervals later this week.

Nice job, dobro.

I was going to do a triathlon this year but decided to focus on the marathon instead. How long was the Reston Tri? Olympic distance?

[dobrojim]

Reston is oly distance, 1 mile swim, 22.5 mi bike and 10k run-
my time for the event was 2:41ish

I did not get passed by a single runner during the run.
Sadly, that's as much a statement about how well I swim, bike and
transition as it is about how I run.

Signed up today for the Wilson Bridge half. Should be fun running
over the Br. And for a 'replacement' 50 miler on the same day
as the JFK 50, but with a $35 vs a $150 entry fee.