Wiz Acquire Hinrich, Seraphin, $3M for Veermenko's rights

[bgroban]

Sorry guys , don't mean to troll but I was absolutely shocked and baffled at this trade. I mean what the **** was your GM thinking? There are certain deals you don't make because it can possibly render anything you do in the immediate future absolutely meaningless. This deal definitely has the potential to become the deal that made the sickest dynasty possible.

Think about this: Wall is 20 years old. Lebron/Bosh/Noah/Rose are all 25 years or younger. If Lebron and Bosh join Chicago then they'll have something close to a 10 year run at multiple titles and barring a miracle there won't be a team able to compete with that line-up. Not only is getting a shabby 17th pick so not worth it---it could effectively render Wall's next 10 years pretty meaningless(barring a major miracle trade etc.). I have no clue how this pans out but if Lebron/Bosh join Chicago along with Rose/Noah/Deng I believe that this wouldn't even have been worth doing if Chicago offered a top 5 pick, let alone a pathetic mid first round pick. Washington has possibly shot the east and themselves in the foot big time with this deal.

Bron'Bron's not a winner. Doesn't want it bad enough. Not going to be any "run." Bosh is no different that Antawn - he fills up the stat sheet. Next.

[Bingosan]

The Lakers and Kings are West teams that only face Chicago twice a season and maybe in the finals again. The Lakers deal would have only freed up 4mill. for Chicago. Wouldn't have been a big deal but watching an eastern conference team helping out Chicago in such a big way is really astonishing.

[LyricalRico]

^ LeBron's a choker and will never win anything so I'm not worried no matter where he signs. Besides, I think both he and Bosh go to Miami if the Heat are able to move Beasley. If that's the case, all we did was help the Bulls destroy their cap by overpaying for Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.

And don't forget how this trade helps us. All of the guys I respect on NBATV and ESPN (Aldrige, Kenny Smith, JVG) talked about how much Hinrich helped Derrick Rose in Chicago. If he can do the same for John Wall, it'll be worth it IMO. And we get an athletic young big man on top of that? Chicago is going to have to worry about US!



(Oh and don't forget that it's still a "proposed" trade so it could be tweaked between now and July 8.)

[Silvie Lysandra]

^ LeBron's a choker and will never win anything so I'm not worried no matter where he signs. Besides, I think both he and Bosh go to Miami if the Heat are able to move Beasley. If that's the case, all we did was help the Bulls destroy their cap by overpaying for Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.



(Oh and don't forget that it's still a "proposed" trade so it could be tweaked between now and July 8.)

This. I'm not scared of LeBron James in the playoffs. A highly flawed Wizards core of Arenas/Butler/Jamison with a highly flawed coach beats him in 5 if not for the refs. He's never beaten a truly good team outside an imploding Detroit squad in the playoffs.

Now, if Wade goes to Chicago (which he won't - he's committed to Miami) then I'd be worried because Dwayne Wade is a winner. But no matter how many wins a LeBron team gets in the regular season, until he does it in the playoffs, I don't care.

[bgroban]

^ LeBron's a choker and will never win anything so I'm not worried no matter where he signs. Besides, I think both he and Bosh go to Miami if the Heat are able to move Beasley. If that's the case, all we did was help the Bulls destroy their cap by overpaying for Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.

And don't forget how this trade helps us. All of the guys I respect on NBATV and ESPN (Aldrige, Kenny Smith, JVG) talked about how much Hinrich helped Derrick Rose in Chicago. If he can do the same for John Wall, it'll be worth it IMO. And we get an athletic young big man on top of that? Chicago is going to have to worry about US!



(Oh and don't forget that it's still a "proposed" trade so it could be tweaked between now and July 8.)

+1. Well written, LR.

[nate33]

According to Michal Lee, Chicago paid the Wizards $3 million in the Hinrich/17 deal.

MrMichaelLee

In addition to Kirk Hinrich & the 17th pick (Kevin Seraphin), Wiz also got $3 million in deal w/CHI. How often do you get paid for a pick?

This makes the trade easier to swallow.

If we ultimately trade Hinrich for expiring contracts that maximize the 125% Exemption, it will ultimately have cost Teddy just $4.2M for the #17 pick. If we get cash back in this hypothetical Hinrich for Expirings trade, the pick may end up costing as little as $1.2M

And let's not forget that OKC gave up the #32 pick when they traded up to #18. #32 picks typically sell for $2.5M or more. So they took on Cook's $2.1M salary and gave up $2.5M in value in the pick, so it cost OKC $4.6M to buy the #18 pick.

So let's get off this argument that EG sucks and Presti is the man. By my reckoning, EG might ultimately end up with the better deal. EG may end up spending less money than Presti for a higher pick while getting back a more useful rent-a-player.

[Joe Kleazy]

The Lakers offered Morrison and Vujacic for Hinrich.

Hinrich fits in nicely with the Lakers. I'm sure they'll explore the same deal next year, except Vujacic will be an expiring.

This^^. The Lakers, and now apparently Kings are hot for kirk. The lakers have wanted him for a while now so i wouldnt be suprised if they offered the wizards Ammo and The Machine for kirk eventually

Yes, this is true, please swing him this way. We'll handle that whole chicago thing for yall dont worry.

[nate33]

Again, Chicago does not have the cap room for two max players. All this talk about Lebron + Bosh isn't happening. At best, they'll end up with Lebron + Boozer.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

According to Michal Lee, Chicago paid the Wizards $3 million in the Hinrich/17 deal.

MrMichaelLee

In addition to Kirk Hinrich & the 17th pick (Kevin Seraphin), Wiz also got $3 million in deal w/CHI. How often do you get paid for a pick?

This makes the trade easier to swallow.

If we ultimately trade Hinrich for expiring contracts that maximize the 125% Exemption, it will ultimately have cost Teddy just $4.2M for the #17 pick. If we get cash back in this hypothetical Hinrich for Expirings trade, the pick may end up costing as little as $1.2M

And let's not forget that OKC gave up the #32 pick when they traded up to #18. #32 picks typically sell for $2.5M or more. So they took on Cook's $2.1M salary and gave up $2.5M in value in the pick, so it cost OKC $4.6M to buy the #18 pick.

So let's get off this argument that EG sucks and Presti is the man. By my reckoning, EG might ultimately end up with the better deal. EG may end up spending less money than Presti for a higher pick while getting back a more useful rent-a-player.

Thank you. Good grief people were running around with some crazy numbers, especially on the main board.

[cavsfan_osiris]

Forget about the Chicago and LeBron angle. Why is this a good trade for the Wizards? That's what I don't understand.

[verbal8]

I like the concept of a BOYD trading for an "almost dead" player.

My first thought was "what the heck?" with getting Hinrich. But it actually makes some sense to have a backcourt with Wall/Arenas/Hinrich. Wall/Hinrich is a very good defensive backcourt and Arenas/Wall is a very good offensive backcourt. It also provides an example for Wall to follow offensively and defensively.

Nick Young should see playing time(at Hinrich's expense) against the big SGs like Kobe, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I like the concept of a BOYD trading for an "almost dead" player.

My first thought was "what the heck?" with getting Hinrich. But it actually makes some sense to have a backcourt with Wall/Arenas/Hinrich. Wall/Hinrich is a very good defensive backcourt and Arenas/Wall is a very good offensive backcourt. It also provides an example for Wall to follow offensively and defensively.

Nick Young should see playing time(at Hinrich's expense) against the big SGs like Kobe, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson.

That's all well and good verbal8, and I like your thought process on this. My problem is the minutes.

There are only 96 minutes to go around per game at PG and SG. Let's say the tallest guy and the one who's actually been good on +/- the past two seasons, and the same guy who once shut down Dwayne Wade only plays 15 minutes. Tough luck for Nick, who nate and I can attest to comes up a winner with on almost any lineup he actually plays in despite his low basketball IQ. Say the only true SG only plays 15 minutes. There are 81 minutes for Gil, Wall, and Hinrich. Hmmm ...

Hinrich's paid a starter's salary. Gil's paid a superstar's salary. John Wall's drafted and projected to be a superstar. How do these guys find consistent roles and minutes when each and every one of them is a PG?

The only thing I find plausible is Gilbert gets traded and Hinrich plays major minutes. Otherwise, somebody's going to be upset playing less than 20 minutes.

Wall's going to play over 30 minutes every night and Gil's going to get his minutes elsewhere is my very strong hunch.

[Ruzious]

Forget about the Chicago and LeBron angle. Why is this a good trade for the Wizards? That's what I don't understand.

The logic is blatantly obvious - whether you agree with it or not - they got 2 players for nothing but cap space and money - one of them being a talented rookie that they were targetting. And the intangibles that Hinrich brings means probably more to the Wiz management than his actual play.

[verbal8]

Forget about the Chicago and LeBron angle. Why is this a good trade for the Wizards? That's what I don't understand.

The logic is blatantly obvious - whether you agree with it or not - they got 2 players for nothing but cap space and money - one of them being a talented rookie that they were targetting. And the intangibles that Hinrich brings means probably more to the Wiz management than his actual play.

Sacramento is in line right behind the Wizards, so the angle of helping the Bulls doesn't really bother me much.

[verbal8]

I like the concept of a BOYD trading for an "almost dead" player.

My first thought was "what the heck?" with getting Hinrich. But it actually makes some sense to have a backcourt with Wall/Arenas/Hinrich. Wall/Hinrich is a very good defensive backcourt and Arenas/Wall is a very good offensive backcourt. It also provides an example for Wall to follow offensively and defensively.

Nick Young should see playing time(at Hinrich's expense) against the big SGs like Kobe, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson.

That's all well and good verbal8, and I like your thought process on this. My problem is the minutes.

There are only 96 minutes to go around per game at PG and SG. Let's say the tallest guy and the one who's actually been good on +/- the past two seasons, and the same guy who once shut down Dwayne Wade only plays 15 minutes. Tough luck for Nick, who nate and I can attest to comes up a winner with on almost any lineup he actually plays in despite his low basketball IQ. Say the only true SG only plays 15 minutes. There are 81 minutes for Gil, Wall, and Hinrich. Hmmm ...

I don't think that Nick Young plays 15 minutes a game. I think he plays 5 to 10 against smaller backcourts and 25+ against the big SGs. I think the big minute games for Young come at Hinrich's expense(and maybe 5 minutes less for Gil).

I also think there may be some 3 guard line-ups. McGee and Blatche have good size, so it helps a compensate a little with a line-up with no SF.

Hinrich's paid a starter's salary. Gil's paid a superstar's salary. John Wall's drafted and projected to be a superstar. How do these guys find consistent roles and minutes when each and every one of them is a PG?

The only thing I find plausible is Gilbert gets traded and Hinrich plays major minutes. Otherwise, somebody's going to be upset playing less than 20 minutes.

Wall's going to play over 30 minutes every night and Gil's going to get his minutes elsewhere is my very strong hunch.

Yes that is a possibility, but I am trying to be optimistic for now. My hope is the Wizards have a thought for how to make the current backcourt work. If it turns out not to work, I have no problem with dealing Arenas at that point. I hope they get real talent in return and Gil wins a championship with his new team.

[nate33]

I have no problem with dealing Arenas at that point. I hope they get real talent in return and Gil wins a championship with his new team.

Well, we just set up Chicago and OKC set up Miami. Let's give Arenas to Orlando and watch those three teams duke it out for the next 3 years while we quietly build our foundation.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

I like the concept of a BOYD trading for an "almost dead" player.

My first thought was "what the heck?" with getting Hinrich. But it actually makes some sense to have a backcourt with Wall/Arenas/Hinrich. Wall/Hinrich is a very good defensive backcourt and Arenas/Wall is a very good offensive backcourt. It also provides an example for Wall to follow offensively and defensively.

Nick Young should see playing time(at Hinrich's expense) against the big SGs like Kobe, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson.

That's all well and good verbal8, and I like your thought process on this. My problem is the minutes.

There are only 96 minutes to go around per game at PG and SG. Let's say the tallest guy and the one who's actually been good on +/- the past two seasons, and the same guy who once shut down Dwayne Wade only plays 15 minutes. Tough luck for Nick, who nate and I can attest to comes up a winner with on almost any lineup he actually plays in despite his low basketball IQ. Say the only true SG only plays 15 minutes. There are 81 minutes for Gil, Wall, and Hinrich. Hmmm ...

Hinrich's paid a starter's salary. Gil's paid a superstar's salary. John Wall's drafted and projected to be a superstar. How do these guys find consistent roles and minutes when each and every one of them is a PG?

The only thing I find plausible is Gilbert gets traded and Hinrich plays major minutes. Otherwise, somebody's going to be upset playing less than 20 minutes.

Wall's going to play over 30 minutes every night and Gil's going to get his minutes elsewhere is my very strong hunch.

Can you and Nate sell some league GM's on NY's solid contributions so we can trade him for something of value? Because I agree, one guy will be left out, and based on history (Gil being, well, a great player, EG's mancrush on Hinrich, JOHN FREAKING WALL, and NY already being stuffed on the bench the past few years) it's going to be Nick regardless.

I initially REALLY wished we drafted James Anderson, traded Gil, and started anew with Wall and Anderson in the backcourt. That's a solid rebuild... but it also means trading Gil, easier said than done.

[WizStorm]

I don't see minutes being a problem at all for a Wall, Gil and Hinrich backcourt rotation, as I simply don't see anyway that Nick Young makes Flip's tight 8/9 man rotation. The only way N1 gets to a 15 minute per game average is if someone gets injured.

Right now, I would say the main rotation and the lion share of minutes would be for:
Wall, Gil, Hinrich, Thornton, F (TBD), Blatche, McGee, C (TBD)

I'm hoping that Singleton, Howard OR Childress, Booker and then perhaps some FA C will be in the mix for the main rotation minutes. Nick Young will only be used as a change of pace or maybe as spot matchups against bigger guards or in mop up duty. Then you have the other projects like Kevin Seraphin, Hamady Ndiaye and maybe even Emir Preldzic that will round out the roster, but most likely won't figure in the rotation at the start of the season. Quentin Ross hopefully won't ever see the 12 man roster.

[WizarDynasty]

Solid...
hinrich has a lot of experience mentoring superstar point guards and playing a back up roll.
Arenas finally gets to be a shooting guard and young is an excellent backup at sg.
Thornton..I really don't like at sf unless back up but maybe booker can develop some small forward skills...he definitely has the motor and strength to cover up any oversize posting shooting guard.
Seraphin if we bring him over should really toughen up blatche and mcgee and ndiaye is an excellent defensive body for mcgee to develop his game against. Highly inelligent draft strategy. The only need is getting a another long small forward that can stroke the three. If we can get seraphin over soon...excellent. Right now I give us a B. I just don't know enough about bookers small forward offensive and defensive potential and his three point shooting but I like even without the three ball cuz he is physical and tough and we couldn't have found a better fast break partner for wall. As long as ernie doesn't trade arenas...I will slowly warm up to him. Time will tell.
I am glad he didn't repeat his mistake of grabbing player under 6'7 and below 9'0 reach and making them our longterm small forwards. Booker seems to have the raw physical tools to allow us to match up with the really physical smallforwards like lebron melo pierce. I guess we will see if he really has elite lateral quick change of direction agility. His motor is definitely higher than blatche and mcgee and he's strong.

[AnotherFinn]

Well whats the point in rebuilding and drafting 4 rookies if you don't play them?

Don't see trouble using all 3 at the C (Seraphin, Mcgee & N'diaye) its about 16mins for each.
If you play drey for 30 mins its 18 for Booker. The tricky spot is SF.

Interesting to see also if they bring Emir over this season or not.