Jan Vesely

[W. Unseld]

If I missed it I apologize, but again, has anyone heard a Vesely back to Europe for the season rumor?

[pcbothwel]

I read an article about Jan about a week or so ago and the writer made a good point. He mentioned that some people (on this board) think that its just because he is a white euro that his athleticism stand out. And that he is being lauded because of that.
But the writer points out that when people hear about a talented euro they think of a savvy, high IQ, floor bound player with little length and good shooting. So when you say we got an Eastern Euro white guy who is not a partularly good shooter or elite bigman/rebounder, people are more skeptical of what he can offer. So maybe his background/skin color combined with his athleticism gained him some attention, but also keep im mind that his lack of skills were also over-analyzed cause of those same reasons. Just a thought

[theboomking]

To be fair, TGW, EG has only whiffed once in the first round of the draft: Pecherov. His track record picking for the Wizards follows:

2010
Wall (a no brainer)
Seraphin - jury is out, but nobody clearly better was taken later
Booker - ranks 5th in his draft class going by PER, despite being selected 29th

2009
Traded pick. (I'm not saying EG is smart at trades, just at picks)

2008
McGee - a great pick at #18. The only guy drafted later who is better is Ibaka.

2007
Young - a good pick at #16. A couple of decent players taken 8 or so picks later (Chandler, Brooks, Afflalo) but nobody clearly better, and certainly nobody better on the board near Nick's general draft range.

2006
Pecherov - Ugh. Though it was a terrible draft class with Rondo, Lowry, and Millsap as the only guys drafted later who panned out to be starters - and all were taken much later than Pecherov (meaning they were sleepers that most GM's missed).

2005
No pick (relic from Haywood trade). Our 2nd round pick was Blatche, who panned out to be better than every non-lotto pick except Granger, M.Ellis and David Lee (all taken before Blatche).

2004
Traded pick for Jamison

Noone on this board would have drafted better than EG over the last 5 years and many are critical and think they could have chosen better this year.

[Ruzious]

I still refuse to believe that Vesely can be so bad when many GM's, draft gurus and beat writers have such a high opinion of him. If you ask the people on this board, Vesely should have gone in the 15-20 range, yet nobody in the media batted an eye when the Wizards drafted him 6th. Heck, Chad Ford thought we had perhaps the best draft of all the teams in the league.

It is my understanding that Vesely was considered a very good player in his league, roughly on par with a veteran Josh Childress. If we drafted a guy as good as a veteran Josh Childress (while being just 21 and not yet filled out into his frame), then that's really a pretty good pick in this lousy draft.

+1

This skepticism about Jan and the second-guessing of EG for drafting him is coming from posters on this board who have never really seen him play--other than video highlights. And they have a right to their opinions.

Personally, I'm more inclined to embrace the opinion of EG and the Zards scout, who have actually seen him play upclose and personal, and the GMs, NBA writers and others who, I'm guessing, know far more about Jan--his strenghts and weaknesses--than those of us on this message board.

You're a great poster, DCZ, but that post sucked. Just because EG's a professional GM doesn't mean he shouldn't be questioned and doesn't make mistakes that many of us average fans wouldn't have made. That's one of the reasons we have a Wiz message board. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to be an average NBA GM. It does take a rocket scientist to be... a rocket scientist. As for Vesely, there have been whole games of his with links posted on this board. People haven't just watched highlights of him. There is figuratively a ton of game footage of him available to average fans.

[DCZards]

You're a great poster, DCZ, but that post sucked. Just because EG's a professional GM doesn't mean he shouldn't be questioned and doesn't make mistakes that many of us average fans wouldn't have made. That's one of the reasons we have a Wiz message board. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to be an average NBA GM. It does take a rocket scientist to be... a rocket scientist. As for Vesely, there have been whole games of his with links posted on this board. People haven't just watched highlights of him. There is figuratively a ton of game footage of him available to average fans.

Ruz, I believe I addressed a poster's right to question EG's decisions with this sentence in the post you quoted: And they have a right to their opinions.

However, in this case, I'm particularly more confident in EG's decisions/opinions (since he's been scouting Vesely for over a year and has actually seen the guy play) than I am in message board posters who probably didn't even know Jan Vesely existed 3 months ago---and have yet to see him play.

[theboomking]

I don't know about DCZards, but for me, it isn't that people are questioning. It is how SURE people sound that we blew this pick by choosing Vesely over a bunch of prospects that to my eye, look pretty mediocre. I don't think any of us love Vesely as a prospect, or feel that much more confident about our future because we landed him. On the other hand, between Vesely, Singleton, Booker, Wall, Seraphin, and Mack, our team should be much much tougher and better on defense than before we drafted Wall.

[dangermouse]

The only reason why I think we sort of blew the first pick is because we managed to get Singleton later on. I am sure that if we had the foresight to see that Singleton would be there, then we would have done something more creative with the #6.

That was pretty much impossible to know, NYK were putting it out there that they liked the guy a lot.

So I dont necessarily think that they blew it, it was just circumstance. We'll just have to wait and see how Jan goes before we can confidently say that it was a bad pick.

[Ruzious]

You're a great poster, DCZ, but that post sucked. Just because EG's a professional GM doesn't mean he shouldn't be questioned and doesn't make mistakes that many of us average fans wouldn't have made. That's one of the reasons we have a Wiz message board. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to be an average NBA GM. It does take a rocket scientist to be... a rocket scientist. As for Vesely, there have been whole games of his with links posted on this board. People haven't just watched highlights of him. There is figuratively a ton of game footage of him available to average fans.

Ruz, I believe I addressed a poster's right to question EG's decisions with this sentence in the post you quoted: And they have a right to their opinions.

However, in this case, I'm particularly more confident in EG's decisions/opinions (since he's been scouting Vesely for over a year and has actually seen the guy play) than I am in message board posters who probably didn't even know Jan Vesely existed 3 months ago---and have yet to see him play.

And my point is you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One one hand, you're saying we have a right to our opinion (which we all realize - thank you), and the other you're basically saying our opinions are worthless because we have the hubris to question the GM's decision. And again, that's BS saying we haven't seen him play.

[Ruzious]

I don't know about DCZards, but for me, it isn't that people are questioning. It is how SURE people sound that we blew this pick by choosing Vesely over a bunch of prospects that to my eye, look pretty mediocre. I don't think any of us love Vesely as a prospect, or feel that much more confident about our future because we landed him. On the other hand, between Vesely, Singleton, Booker, Wall, Seraphin, and Mack, our team should be much much tougher and better on defense than before we drafted Wall.

So it bothers you that people have strong opinions. Wow.

[theboomking]

I don't know about DCZards, but for me, it isn't that people are questioning. It is how SURE people sound that we blew this pick by choosing Vesely over a bunch of prospects that to my eye, look pretty mediocre. I don't think any of us love Vesely as a prospect, or feel that much more confident about our future because we landed him. On the other hand, between Vesely, Singleton, Booker, Wall, Seraphin, and Mack, our team should be much much tougher and better on defense than before we drafted Wall.

So it bothers you that people have strong opinions. Wow.

An obvious mischaracterization. Don't believe everything you think.

[Ruzious]

I don't know about DCZards, but for me, it isn't that people are questioning. It is how SURE people sound that we blew this pick by choosing Vesely over a bunch of prospects that to my eye, look pretty mediocre. I don't think any of us love Vesely as a prospect, or feel that much more confident about our future because we landed him. On the other hand, between Vesely, Singleton, Booker, Wall, Seraphin, and Mack, our team should be much much tougher and better on defense than before we drafted Wall.

So it bothers you that people have strong opinions. Wow.

An obvious mischaracterization. Don't believe everything you think.

How is that a mischaracterization?

[theboomking]

So it bothers you that people have strong opinions. Wow.
How is that a mischaracterization?

I posted a statement critical of the many in this thread who have posted as if they are utterly sure that a highly regarded prospect, that most have never seen play except on youtube, won't be as good as prospects picked in the mid-teens in a very week draft. I did so without making pointed comments or singling anyone out in a petty or aggressive manner. I suppose what I meant to suggest, was that even on an internet discussion board, perhaps it is better to keep an open mind on topics about which, one possesses limited information. You are right though. I just don't like it when anyone has strong opinions. I now wish to take back that entire line of thinking and apologize. Thank you for setting me straight.

[montestewart]

^
Don't let him get you on the ropes. Remember, you are the theboomking.

[Zonkerbl]

Wasn't this board all a-twitter about how we had blown the McGee pick? I remember a lot of know-it-alls on this board who were sure that McGee was a terrible pick. Now we think he's the second most valuable asset on the team. He also picked N1, who is rounding out to be a decent player.

So EG has earned my trust, at least with his ability to evaluate talent. Also I like Vesely's personality. He's like superman. And his gf is hot.

So fine, go on with your chicken little routine. But I think what folks are trying to tell you is EG has proved to be right more often than not, and the people who questioned his picks have been wrong more often than not. So that's not an opinion. That's empirical evidence.

Yes one of his trades really, really stank. And a few of his signings really, really, really stank. But this is about Vesely, so it's about EG's ability to evaluate talent. Also it's about the fact that Vesely was a starter on a pretty kick-a$$ team. And there's some statistics showing he's a decent defender.

So that combined with EG's track record makes me feel confident that Vesely will be at least as good as all the other chumps picked 6-18 in this crappy, crappy draft.

[DCZards]

I suppose what I meant to suggest, was that even on an internet discussion board, perhaps it is better to keep an open mind on topics about which, one possesses limited information.

Agreed

[Ruzious]

Wasn't this board all a-twitter about how we had blown the McGee pick? I remember a lot of know-it-alls on this board who were sure that McGee was a terrible pick. Now we think he's the second most valuable asset on the team. He also picked N1, who is rounding out to be a decent player.

So EG has earned my trust, at least with his ability to evaluate talent. Also I like Vesely's personality. He's like superman. And his gf is hot.

So fine, go on with your chicken little routine. But I think what folks are trying to tell you is EG has proved to be right more often than not, and the people who questioned his picks have been wrong more often than not. So that's not an opinion. That's empirical evidence.

Yes one of his trades really, really stank. And a few of his signings really, really, really stank. But this is about Vesely, so it's about EG's ability to evaluate talent. Also it's about the fact that Vesely was a starter on a pretty kick-a$$ team. And there's some statistics showing he's a decent defender.

So that combined with EG's track record makes me feel confident that Vesely will be at least as good as all the other chumps picked 6-18 in this crappy, crappy draft.

It's funny - I'm one of the folks who cheered for the Javale McGee pick and strongly defended the pick. But now that I'm strongly against a pick and defending that view, I'm the blowhard that thinks he knows everything. Guys, I know I don't know everything. I know my opinions aren't facts. I feel strongly that it was the wrong move to make. I didn't like Vesely before the draft, and EG picking him doesn't alter my position. It's possible I'm wrong, and I hope I'm wrong.

[closg00]

Wasn't this board all a-twitter about how we had blown the McGee pick? I remember a lot of know-it-alls on this board who were sure that McGee was a terrible pick. Now we think he's the second most valuable asset on the team. He also picked N1, who is rounding out to be a decent player.

So EG has earned my trust, at least with his ability to evaluate talent. Also I like Vesely's personality. He's like superman. And his gf is hot.

So fine, go on with your chicken little routine. But I think what folks are trying to tell you is EG has proved to be right more often than not, and the people who questioned his picks have been wrong more often than not. So that's not an opinion. That's empirical evidence.

Yes one of his trades really, really stank. And a few of his signings really, really, really stank. But this is about Vesely, so it's about EG's ability to evaluate talent. Also it's about the fact that Vesely was a starter on a pretty kick-a$$ team. And there's some statistics showing he's a decent defender.

So that combined with EG's track record makes me feel confident that Vesely will be at least as good as all the other chumps picked 6-18 in this crappy, crappy draft.

EG's overall track record is such that he is frequently mentioned in articles that discuss which GM's heads are on the chopping block, his larger mistakes would have gotten him fired by most competent orgainizations.

Re: Vesely, I think posters who dared raise questions about Vesely or simply had other preferences for whom to select with our 6th pick, are just puzzled as to how a foreign player who is poor shooter and horrible FT shooter, is going to play the SF position for us, much-less PF. Just a lot of curiosity really.

[theboomking]

I actually agree with both of you, Ruzious and closeg, in a lot of ways. I don't like Vesely as a shooter or offensively skilled player, and we needed more skill and shooting on offense. I was begging and praying that we would trade up. I also agree EG is teribble as a team builder. He has killed us with his trades and his signings/contracts. It is hard to know how much of that was on EG however, and how much on management. If he was being pushed by an ailing Abe Pollin to win now, it may have been hard not to trade for Miller and Foye, and to resign Arenas. That is pure conjecture however.

In terms of pure draft prospect talent evaluation however, I would say EG has been excellent. Everyone has hits and misses in the draft. Even when choosing in the mid to late 1st, EG has seemed to have more hits than misses, which is unusual in the NBA draft. Taking into account Pechy, and Seraphin, EG has aquitted himself well with the selections of Young, Blatche, McGee and Booker. Given how low our draft picks were, the odds of getting 4 productive players out of the 6 selections used to choose the above players, were very low.

My only real contention in this thread is that although Vesely appears to be a limited prospect who won't change the fortunes of our franchise, based on how weak this draft was, and how favorably Vesely appeared to be viewed by many of the top GM's and draft pundits, I think it is a bit premature to blast EG for the selection or to be convinced that we were very likely to do much better by passing on Vesely to choose a player that was selected lower.

Moving on, I wish Vesely would come over and play some summer league...at least we'd get to see him.

[montestewart]

I would have preferred a trade up to Kanter or Valunciunias or down to Biyombo or Tristan Thompson (though they both went higher than I thought they would), but it's hard to tell what trades could be had, especially to move up. If the Wolves, Jazz, Cavs, or Raptors were asking for too much, I can't really fault the Wizards for not making the trade, and even though I figured he would have been picked lower than 6 if the Wizards traded up, I don't know enough yet about Vesely to condemn the pick.

[nate33]

Wasn't this board all a-twitter about how we had blown the McGee pick? I remember a lot of know-it-alls on this board who were sure that McGee was a terrible pick. Now we think he's the second most valuable asset on the team. He also picked N1, who is rounding out to be a decent player.

So EG has earned my trust, at least with his ability to evaluate talent. Also I like Vesely's personality. He's like superman. And his gf is hot.

So fine, go on with your chicken little routine. But I think what folks are trying to tell you is EG has proved to be right more often than not, and the people who questioned his picks have been wrong more often than not. So that's not an opinion. That's empirical evidence.

Yes one of his trades really, really stank. And a few of his signings really, really, really stank. But this is about Vesely, so it's about EG's ability to evaluate talent. Also it's about the fact that Vesely was a starter on a pretty kick-a$$ team. And there's some statistics showing he's a decent defender.

So that combined with EG's track record makes me feel confident that Vesely will be at least as good as all the other chumps picked 6-18 in this crappy, crappy draft.

It's funny - I'm one of the folks who cheered for the Javale McGee pick and strongly defended the pick. But now that I'm strongly against a pick and defending that view, I'm the blowhard that thinks he knows everything. Guys, I know I don't know everything. I know my opinions aren't facts. I feel strongly that it was the wrong move to make. I didn't like Vesely before the draft, and EG picking him doesn't alter my position. It's possible I'm wrong, and I hope I'm wrong.

Very good post, Zonker. You are right that the McGee pick was almost universally panned by this board and should serve as a cautionary tale that the group think on this board is not always accurate.

That said, the argument doesn't work on Ruzious because he was indeed one of the very few exceptions who approved of the McGee pick.