Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

[hands11]

Hands, I'm aware of Bennett's shortcomings as a defender but I'm curious as to why you think "smarts" is an issue.

Because most good basketball players are smart. If not, you get Nick Young and McGee type players.

Talented. But just not smart enough.

[The Consiglieri]

How can we make a judgment on his basketball intelligence when he's got one year of experience as a college player? Not sure. Granted we already knew Beal was brilliant, but if you're struggling as a freshman, well, how is that different from any other freshman?

I don't think we can define somebody, determine where they belong on any scale, that early in their development.

[verbal8]

I did the ESPN draft simulator and the Wizards got the number 2 pick and selected Otto Porter, that works for me

Assuming the Wizards are 8 or 9th, one of the guard prospects might be a good idea. I think McLemore is a poor match for the Wizards(strictly a SG), but I think the rest of the top guards could play multiple positions with the Wizards. I think Burke could be a SG with Wall. CJ McCollum projects to a combo guard, so he should be easy to fit in the line-up. Olapido may provide the most flexibility because he could play with both Beal and Wall or at SG with just Wall.

I think for a rookie, they really only need to play in the mid 20s so at least for the first year minutes should not be a problem. Jarret Jack was able to play 2300 minutes this season with Curry and Klay in the backcourt.

One thing with drafting a guard is the GM has to be ready to deal him if a good opportunity(a young player in a position of need and/or a good draft pick).

[Knighthonor]

can people admit they were wrong about the Harrison Barnes pick. They said he was overrated, but turned out he deserved the hype. check out last night's game.

[dangermouse]

can people admit they were wrong about the Harrison Barnes pick. They said he was overrated, but turned out he deserved the hype. check out last night's game.

yeah he's good, but would you really rather have him than Beal?

[fishercob]

I know you guys aren't big fan of blacks or Jews (me neither), but this particular Jew/black has caught my sight.

Edited to make a couple of points:

(1) This line of thinking is preposterous. The notion that someone should be disqualified or favored because of their ethnic background or national origin is beyond stupid, especially considering how international the game has become.

(2) People read these forums. We've had plenty a poster from Europe. It has to be beyond insulting for them to read something like this. Imagine yourself in their shoes.

Nothing personal, kirubel94 -- you're far from the only person talking like this -- but this has to stop, IMO

Your edit made me laugh. But in all seriousness, this has nothing to do with them being Euro, it's is just that the Euro's Ernie drafted haven't had any success.

Dude, outside of two top-3 picks, the Americans (both north and south) he has drafted in the last decade haven't done crap either.

[Nivek]

can people admit they were wrong about the Harrison Barnes pick. They said he was overrated, but turned out he deserved the hype. check out last night's game.

Last night's good game raised his playoff performance to almost average. His regular season wasn't very impressive. Barnes has the potential to be a really good player, but he's not there yet.

Ran Barnes through my doppleganger machine. Most similar: Omri Casspi and Yi Jianlian.

Code: Select all

STAT    Barnes  Casspi  Yi
Season  2012-13 2009-10 2007-08
Age     20      21      20
Team    GSW     SAC     MIL
GMS     81      77      66
MPG     25.4    25.1    25.0
Usg%    16.6%   18.4%   18.0%
Ortg    100     102     96
efg     .481    .502    .427
2pt%    .464    .480    .427
3pt%    .359    .369    .286
FT%     .758    .672    .841
Reb     6.9     7.7     9.1
Ast     2.0     2.1     1.5
Stl     1.1     1.2     1.0
Blk     0.3     0.4     1.5
Tov     2.1     2.2     2.4
PF      2.9     2.8     4.1
Pts     15.4    17.4    15.0
PPA     75      80      61
SIM     100     91      89


So, Barnes' rookie season makes him look like the second coming of Omri Casspi.

[GhostsOfGil]

Fish, to be fair, EG has a strong infatuation with European players that NEVER pan out.. Navarro, Veremeenko, Pech, Vesley, Bjelica, Tomas?, Seraphin.

[DCZards]

How can we make a judgment on his basketball intelligence when he's got one year of experience as a college player? Not sure. Granted we already knew Beal was brilliant, but if you're struggling as a freshman, well, how is that different from any other freshman?

I don't think we can define somebody, determine where they belong on any scale, that early in their development.

+1
Fact is, Hands doesn't really have a good reason to question Bennett's "smarts" and his weak response to my question proves that.

[DCZards]

Last night's good game raised his playoff performance to almost average. His regular season wasn't very impressive. Barnes has the potential to be a really good player, but he's not there yet.

Yup, Barnes still has a lot to prove before it can be said that he's a very good NBA player. But from what I'm hearing about his work ethic and the poise and maturity that he's already playing with, I'm putting my money on him reaching that status. And I love the fact that the rook is stepping up his game during a hard-fought playoff series.

[fishercob]

Fish, to be fair, EG has a strong infatuation with European players that NEVER pan out.. Navarro, Veremeenko, Pech, Vesley, Bjelica, Tomas?, Seraphin.

Seraphin is South American.

I hated the Satoransky pick, but it's obviously too early to rule on him.

Pech and Vesely were the only first round busts who were European.

Singleton, Young, Crawford, TJ Ford, Marcus Haislip are American.

Ernie is not discriminating when it comes to picking bad players.

One of the reasons he likely tends to pick foreign players is his consistent mistake of overvaluing his current roster. He think he's "set" so he's better off stashing someone overseas who won't take up a roster spot. That's why he passes on guys like Blair, Crowder, et al. Pure lunacy.

[Severn Hoos]

fish, thanks for the post and I appreciate the thought-provocation (is that a word?) I do think people use the term "Euro" as a generic term like "Coke" or "Kleenex" or "Xerox" - just meaning "not an American college player". After all, guys like Seraphin and Splitter and Ginobili get called Euros even though they are from South America. (Or how about an Australian like Bogut?) I have not read it - and hopefully have not used it - in any way to be a derogatory term.

But I do appreciate precision in language, and it is better to say something like "I prefer to see US-based college players, because I am more comfortable with the baseline of competition. International players scare me because the level of play seems to vary widely, and can make players seem more dominant than they really are."

Granted, that's a mouthful, but when I express a hesitation around an international player, or read that someone doesn't want to draft a "Euro", that's what I have in mind. And of course, there may be some positive comparisons - my personal favorite target for this team is Ilyasova, who played neither HS or college ball here. I might have been apprehensive about drafting him originally, but love his game now.

So for precision and to avoid offense, I'll do my best to make this the last time I use the term "Euro" in a post.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

fish, thanks for the post and I appreciate the thought-provocation (is that a word?) I do think people use the term "Euro" as a generic term like "Coke" or "Kleenex" or "Xerox" - just meaning "not an American college player". After all, guys like Seraphin and Splitter and Ginobili get called Euros even though they are from South America. (Or how about an Australian like Bogut?) I have not read it - and hopefully have not used it - in any way to be a derogatory term.

But I do appreciate precision in language, and it is better to say something like "I prefer to see US-based college players, because I am more comfortable with the baseline of competition. International players scare me because the level of play seems to vary widely, and can make players seem more dominant than they really are."

Granted, that's a mouthful, but when I express a hesitation around an international player, or read that someone doesn't want to draft a "Euro", that's what I have in mind. And of course, there may be some positive comparisons - my personal favorite target for this team is Ilyasova, who played neither HS or college ball here. I might have been apprehensive about drafting him originally, but love his game now.

So for precision and to avoid offense, I'll do my best to make this the last time I use the term "Euro" in a post.

Ginobili, Splitter, and Seraphin each played for European pro teams prior to appearing in the NBA. That might be why they are considered Euro players.

[fishercob]

fish, thanks for the post and I appreciate the thought-provocation (is that a word?) I do think people use the term "Euro" as a generic term like "Coke" or "Kleenex" or "Xerox" - just meaning "not an American college player". After all, guys like Seraphin and Splitter and Ginobili get called Euros even though they are from South America. (Or how about an Australian like Bogut?) I have not read it - and hopefully have not used it - in any way to be a derogatory term.

But I do appreciate precision in language, and it is better to say something like "I prefer to see US-based college players, because I am more comfortable with the baseline of competition. International players scare me because the level of play seems to vary widely, and can make players seem more dominant than they really are."

Granted, that's a mouthful, but when I express a hesitation around an international player, or read that someone doesn't want to draft a "Euro", that's what I have in mind. And of course, there may be some positive comparisons - my personal favorite target for this team is Ilyasova, who played neither HS or college ball here. I might have been apprehensive about drafting him originally, but love his game now.

So for precision and to avoid offense, I'll do my best to make this the last time I use the term "Euro" in a post.

Good stuff, Sev.

I completely get the hesitation on guys for whom it's tough to judge the level of competition, we don't see much if at all, and for whom the stats are incomplete or unreliable. That's what the hesitation is about -- not their ethnicity or nationality.

[fishercob]

fish, thanks for the post and I appreciate the thought-provocation (is that a word?) I do think people use the term "Euro" as a generic term like "Coke" or "Kleenex" or "Xerox" - just meaning "not an American college player". After all, guys like Seraphin and Splitter and Ginobili get called Euros even though they are from South America. (Or how about an Australian like Bogut?) I have not read it - and hopefully have not used it - in any way to be a derogatory term.

But I do appreciate precision in language, and it is better to say something like "I prefer to see US-based college players, because I am more comfortable with the baseline of competition. International players scare me because the level of play seems to vary widely, and can make players seem more dominant than they really are."

Granted, that's a mouthful, but when I express a hesitation around an international player, or read that someone doesn't want to draft a "Euro", that's what I have in mind. And of course, there may be some positive comparisons - my personal favorite target for this team is Ilyasova, who played neither HS or college ball here. I might have been apprehensive about drafting him originally, but love his game now.

So for precision and to avoid offense, I'll do my best to make this the last time I use the term "Euro" in a post.

Ginobili, Splitter, and Seraphin each played for European pro teams prior to appearing in the NBA. That might be why they are considered Euro players.

So did Brandon Jennings. Jeremy Tyler played in Asia.

[tontoz]

Hands, I'm aware of Bennett's shortcomings as a defender but I'm curious as to why you think "smarts" is an issue.

Because most good basketball players are smart. If not, you get Nick Young and McGee type players.

Talented. But just not smart enough.

DCZards i think you need to repeat the question lol.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

fish, thanks for the post and I appreciate the thought-provocation (is that a word?) I do think people use the term "Euro" as a generic term like "Coke" or "Kleenex" or "Xerox" - just meaning "not an American college player". After all, guys like Seraphin and Splitter and Ginobili get called Euros even though they are from South America. (Or how about an Australian like Bogut?) I have not read it - and hopefully have not used it - in any way to be a derogatory term.

But I do appreciate precision in language, and it is better to say something like "I prefer to see US-based college players, because I am more comfortable with the baseline of competition. International players scare me because the level of play seems to vary widely, and can make players seem more dominant than they really are."

Granted, that's a mouthful, but when I express a hesitation around an international player, or read that someone doesn't want to draft a "Euro", that's what I have in mind. And of course, there may be some positive comparisons - my personal favorite target for this team is Ilyasova, who played neither HS or college ball here. I might have been apprehensive about drafting him originally, but love his game now.

So for precision and to avoid offense, I'll do my best to make this the last time I use the term "Euro" in a post.

Ginobili, Splitter, and Seraphin each played for European pro teams prior to appearing in the NBA. That might be why they are considered Euro players.

So did Brandon Jennings. Jeremy Tyler played in Asia.

True, but nowadays US schoolboy legends are so well publicized and scouted that we know all about their exploits well before they graduate HS, fish.

I recall Jennings didn't like having to wait a year in the NCAAs before he could enter the draft. So he went and played in Europe. He is the one who said (while overseas) that Rubio wasn't that good.

Jeremy Tyler should become the face on a new poster for Stay in School. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Tyler

What a dumb guy to make the rash decisions he has made. Instead of taking his time to hone his talent into a ten year career, his immaturity has landed him out of the league at 21 years old.

[AFM]

Yep. Calling Jennings a Euro is misleading. He went overseas because he didn't want to play NCAA when he knew he was going to be a lottery pick regardless, so he took a paycheck instead.
The problem with "Euros" and why I advocate not drafting them isn't that they are European. It's that they play against much worse competition (regardless of it being the 2nd best competition) and we don't have an accurate idea of how they'll play when in the states. See: Vesely's scouting video from Europe showing him hitting 3 pointers and driving to the rim.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INIXanSQy0Y[/youtube]

[pancakes3]

Jeremy Tyler should become the face on a new poster for Stay in School. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Tyler

What a dumb guy to make the rash decisions he has made. Instead of taking his time to hone his talent into a ten year career, his immaturity has landed him out of the league at 21 years old.

I think with the right player in the right family situation, going abroad for a year or two could potentially be a wonderful experience. Tennis players and figure skaters relocate at a young age all the time but at the risk of sounding un-PC, those kids come from more stable and affluent homes and learn/exhibit extreme discipline from an early age.

Pretty much what guys like the Gasols and Dirk do in those Euro-academies, I don't see why a talented American kid couldn't do.

[montestewart]

How can we make a judgment on his basketball intelligence when he's got one year of experience as a college player? Not sure. Granted we already knew Beal was brilliant, but if you're struggling as a freshman, well, how is that different from any other freshman?

I don't think we can define somebody, determine where they belong on any scale, that early in their development.

+1
Fact is, Hands doesn't really have a good reason to question Bennett's "smarts" and his weak response to my question proves that.

By the answer, I got the impression he misread it as a general question, rather than, "Why do you think 'smarts' is an issue with Bennett."