Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[nuposse04]

Min is high on dieng. He plays intelligently, if we could swap Ariza+Seraphin for Williams+dieng I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Obviously the primary focus ought to be searching for a decent C/F. Thompson on SAC might be the most realistic guy I can think of. Although he is playing turrible this season and is signed until '16...just saw that...ok maybe not him..

[verbal8]

What about something simple like a Booker for Patterson swap, with us throwing in a 2nd rounder (don't the Knicks owe us a 2nd round pick?). It's not like Patterson has significant trade value since he is an impending free agent.

Just wondering if SacTown would do the trade straight up - Booker for Patterson. No need for us to throw in a 2nd rounder.

We'd be buying low (and selling low also)

They really should have similar values based on their past production. Neither seems to be a great long-term fit for their current team, so it could be a deal that works well for everyone.

[mohammed10]

What about something simple like a Booker for Patterson swap, with us throwing in a 2nd rounder (don't the Knicks owe us a 2nd round pick?). It's not like Patterson has significant trade value since he is an impending free agent.

Just wondering if SacTown would do the trade straight up - Booker for Patterson. No need for us to throw in a 2nd rounder.

We'd be buying low (and selling low also)

They really should have similar values based on their past production. Neither seems to be a great long-term fit for their current team, so it could be a deal that works well for everyone.

I know the grass is always greener on the other side (or perhaps just a lighter shade of brown in this circumstance), but are we just swapping our junk for theirs?

Personally, I think Patterson is a more skilled player than Booker.

[LyricalRico]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

[pcbothwel]

Don't see the point for the Wizards. Ariza is the best player in that trade. Dieng might be good down the road, but I think the Wizards could get more for Ariza.

I have the same question as verbal. What do you think Ariza could get us? I think Dieng (who was well liked by a lot of us predraft) is a very good complement to our existing front line and Thornton is a great buy low candidate. He just needs somewhere that can utilize his strengths and mask his weaknesses.

Strengths: Good/streaky 3pt shooter who could catch fire put up 15 pts in a quarter.
Doesn’t mess around with midrange and will take it to the hoop.
Rare 3pt shooter who can create own shot.
Very good rebounder for his size (one in the best pound for pound)

Weaknesses:
Bad defender
Bad Defender…yep, that bad
A little immature from some people who know
Not a much of passer (I do not mean an assist, I mean hockey assist/ball movement)

I think his defense could be mitigated with having players like Wall, Temple, Rice, Porter to play with and his scoring would work well with a Temple, Rice/Porter, Ves who all struggle scoring/creating their own shot.

[nate33]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

We could trade Booker + Ariza for Patterson + Salmons + $3M cash.

It frees up more cap space for Sacramento, gives us a stretch four, and doesn't really hurt our cap flexibility if we assume we intend to resign Gortat anyway. Furthermore, Salmons is a more of a SG/SF rather than the pure SF that Ariza is. We could use some depth at SG before Beal drops dead of fatigue. We could probably finagle a little more out of Sacramento since we're saving them a whopping $7M in cap room ($4M in actual dollars) next year. Maybe we get their (high) 2nd round pick in 2014?

[Nivek]

Don't see the point for the Wizards. Ariza is the best player in that trade. Dieng might be good down the road, but I think the Wizards could get more for Ariza.

What do you think the Wizards can get for Ariza? I don't see any team giving up a 1st for a 1 year rental.

You know, this is a really good question. I'd be looking for a youngish big or guard. The difficulty is that many of the younger players that interest me are on teams that are rebuilding and aren't going to have much interest in giving up those youngsters for a half-year rental. Unfortunately, the Wizards can't make a trade with Grunfeld.

In my view, the Wizards ought to hang tight with Ariza and see if someone gets hurt or decides they need some SF depth closer to the trade deadline. Then try and extract filler plus a 1st for Ariza. If no one would pony up that much, they're better off just keeping him and either letting him walk after the season or perhaps re-signing him themselves.

[payitforward]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

Where does this "potential" come from? On the season, Booker is playing way better than Patterson -- more rebounds (and *lots* more offensive rebounds) and a much higher TS%.

I don't understand why people constantly downgrade Booker. Not saying he is a great player -- he's not. But he's proven at a level that Patterson has yet to reach. They were very close in numbers as rookies, but Patterson has declined. And the one thing we need the most, rebounding, is a weakness in Patterson's game.

[Nivek]

Don't see the point for the Wizards. Ariza is the best player in that trade. Dieng might be good down the road, but I think the Wizards could get more for Ariza.

I have the same question as verbal. What do you think Ariza could get us? I think Dieng (who was well liked by a lot of us predraft) is a very good complement to our existing front line and Thornton is a great buy low candidate. He just needs somewhere that can utilize his strengths and mask his weaknesses.

Strengths: Good/streaky 3pt shooter who could catch fire put up 15 pts in a quarter.
Doesn’t mess around with midrange and will take it to the hoop.
Rare 3pt shooter who can create own shot.
Very good rebounder for his size (one in the best pound for pound)

Weaknesses:
Bad defender
Bad Defender…yep, that bad
A little immature from some people who know
Not a much of passer (I do not mean an assist, I mean hockey assist/ball movement)

I think his defense could be mitigated with having players like Wall, Temple, Rice, Porter to play with and his scoring would work well with a Temple, Rice/Porter, Ves who all struggle scoring/creating their own shot.

I think you've mostly talked me into it. Dieng was a decent prospect, and seems like a decent guy to have as a project. Thornton's not bad -- he'd be an upgrade as a reserve guard.

I still think the Wiz would be better off just hanging on to Ariza unless they can get a 1st round pick. If they insist on actual bodies for their All-In for 8th campaign, I'm not sure they'll get much better than a young big with potential and a middling guard who can shoot a bit.

[mhd]

The Spurs would probably trade their late 1st+Bonner+filler for Ariza I think. The Spurs needed one more defensive wing last year against Miami. Ariza on the Spurs would be deadly.

[LyricalRico]

The Spurs would probably trade their late 1st+Bonner+filler for Ariza I think. The Spurs needed one more defensive wing last year against Miami. Ariza on the Spurs would be deadly.

I recall that we bandied about packages involving Bonner+Blair at one point in the offseason. If we really aren't going to make a huge move in the summer, then Ariza for Bonner+first could work. Would be nice to have Porter available prior to doing that, though.

[LyricalRico]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

We could trade Booker + Ariza for Patterson + Salmons + $3M cash.

It frees up more cap space for Sacramento, gives us a stretch four, and doesn't really hurt our cap flexibility if we assume we intend to resign Gortat anyway. Furthermore, Salmons is a more of a SG/SF rather than the pure SF that Ariza is. We could use some depth at SG before Beal drops dead of fatigue. We could probably finagle a little more out of Sacramento since we're saving them a whopping $7M in cap room ($4M in actual dollars) next year. Maybe we get their (high) 2nd round pick in 2014?

You might have to replace Salmons with Thornton. According to ShamSports, Salmons deal for next season is only $1M guaranteed so we wouldn't be saving the Kings that much. And I'd rather give up Singleton in that scenario. Maybe also include a Seraphin for Jimmer swap?

Ariza+Singleton+Seraphin for Patterson+Thornton+Jimmer+2nd+cash

[LyricalRico]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

Where does this "potential" come from? On the season, Booker is playing way better than Patterson -- more rebounds (and *lots* more offensive rebounds) and a much higher TS%.

I don't understand why people constantly downgrade Booker. Not saying he is a great player -- he's not. But he's proven at a level that Patterson has yet to reach. They were very close in numbers as rookies, but Patterson has declined. And the one thing we need the most, rebounding, is a weakness in Patterson's game.

Well, I wasn't looking so much at this year. Patterson was averaging over 11ppg with over 50% shooting before he was traded. We know the second unit needs scoring, so maybe the net effect (plus in points, minus in rebounds) would still be positive.

Obviously we're not talking about either guy being the key to the future, just thought it might be worth a look.

[rockymac52]

I like Booker more than a lot of people around here, but at the same time, I don't love him, and I'm not convinced we'll re-sign him this summer anyways. Booker has two main problems. First, he's always battling injuries and missing time. As we've seen, that's been a big issue for us, especially with our big men. We need players who will be healthy enough to be active almost every single night. Second, he's very limited offensively, and has essentially no range, so he clogs the lane and hurts our spacing. He's a good player to have on a very cheap salary, but ideally he's your 4th or 5th best big man and you aren't relying on him for much, and he's paired with a big man who can space the floor. Since we don't really have that player, it decreases Booker's value to us substantially.

Patterson is a guy I've wanted us to acquire for a long time. What I really like about Patterson is his outside shooting ability. His midrange jumper is very good for a big man, and last year he started being a legitimate threat from beyond the arc as well. On top of that, he's capable of playing a more traditional big man role on offense as well, whereas some of your cliche stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson and Steve Novak lack that ability (and perhaps more importantly, those guys are on Antawn Jamison's level defensively, whereas Patterson is merely below average). I also like that he isn't seen as a particularly valuable player to the rest of the league, so his next contract (this summer) should be very affordable and could turn out to be a great bargain. Plus it's always fun to pair up former college teammates (Wall and Patterson), but that obviously does not actually matter.

With that said, I'm not sure if the Kings would be interested. It's a fairly even trade, with minimal implications for a team like the Kings, but at the same time, I don't think it presents the Kings with enough of an incentive to make the swap. More importantly, the new Kings GM is no dummy. He knows this trade benefits us by giving us a stretch 4, and he knows we're getting desperate with our struggling and hurt frontcourt. And he knows our franchise's trade history. He knows if he plays hard to get that he can get us to sweeten the pot. We have no leverage in the negotiations over the Kings, whereas they could exercise some against us.

[LyricalRico]

Assuming we re-up Gortat, here's something to shore up the bench.

Wizards trade: Ariza, Maynor, Singleton and 2nd
Wizards receive: Barea, Shved and Bass

Wolves trade: Barea, Shved, Cunningham and 2nd
Wolves receive: Ariza and Maynor

Celtics trade: Bass
Celtics receive: Singleton, Cunningham and multiple 2nds

Boston saves some money and gets some picks while tanking. Minny gets a quality wing and shave some longterm salary. Washington solves the backcourt depth problems and adds another option at PF.

Gortat/Vesely
Nene/Bass
Webster/Temple
Beal/Shved
Wall/Barea

We run a fast 3 guard lineup off the bench until Porter gets healthy, and now we have guys on the bench that can score.

[Ruzious]

^ Agreed, I think Patterson has more potential to turn into a consistently productive player. We'd probably have to add at least a bit of sweetener, or make the Booker-for-Patterson swap part of a larger deal.

Where does this "potential" come from? On the season, Booker is playing way better than Patterson -- more rebounds (and *lots* more offensive rebounds) and a much higher TS%.

I don't understand why people constantly downgrade Booker. Not saying he is a great player -- he's not. But he's proven at a level that Patterson has yet to reach. They were very close in numbers as rookies, but Patterson has declined. And the one thing we need the most, rebounding, is a weakness in Patterson's game.

Last season - an entire season - Patterson was easily the more efficient and productive player of the 2, and he showed he has 3 point range. This season - I don't know what the problem is with Patterson, but we're talking 12 or so games vs an entire season. Booker is nothing more than a decent reserve - when he is healthy - which is something he can't be counted on to be.

[mhd]

What about this deal:

Wiz trade Ariza+Seraphin for Perkins+PJ3+Future Dallas Pick?

Wiz agree to take on Perkins' awful deal, for PJ3 (who is showing signs as an athletic stretch PF) and that valuable future dallas pick. Thunder get Ariza as a much needed wing defender who hits 3s, and Seraphin (who they were rumored to like during the 2010 draft).

Perkins, while awful, will at least play physical.

[nuposse04]

^Hell no, I'd rather both players walk then take on Perkins. We can do better than that.

[deneem4]

What about this deal:

Wiz trade Ariza+Seraphin for Perkins+PJ3+Future Dallas Pick?

Wiz agree to take on Perkins' awful deal, for PJ3 (who is showing signs as an athletic stretch PF) and that valuable future dallas pick. Thunder get Ariza as a much needed wing defender who hits 3s, and Seraphin (who they were rumored to like during the 2010 draft).

Perkins, while awful, will at least play physical.

Swap jackson with maynor as well il do it throwin in singleton as well


What we should be focused on is the kings and gettin isiah thomas....he easily is a top pg out west

il giv both 2nd rds and anything except wall/beal/porterr
For
Patterson/isaih thomas and whoever else

[verbal8]

^Hell no, I'd rather both players walk then take on Perkins. We can do better than that.

Paying Perkins next year is painful, but I think the Dallas pick is probably the best pick that is realistically available. Interest from OKC would depend on how much they want to go "small ball" and what they think of playing Ariza at the 2. I also like getting a look at Perry Jones. He may just be wasted "potential" but looks a lot better than last year.

It also may be that OKC would prefer Gortat over Ariza. Despite his poor production, Perkins is still getting around 15 mpg. Adams might be ready for more minutes, but counting on him for more than 20 mpg at this point doesn't seem like the best idea.