12/6/13 Game Thread: Wizards (9-9) vs. Bucks (3-15)

Tricky_Kid · Post #301 » by **Tricky_Kid** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 5:51 pm

You cannot win anything without bigger bench. Season is long and if Witt will play first lineup close to 40 min /game it's no brainer they will end up as Beal or Kobe in year before.
Wall was good yesterday, You cannot blame him for lost. He was only guy and Ariza who really carrying this team through the game.
Booker was good also. The rest was so **** no words for that.... Esecially dissapointed by Gortat Rebounding and his defense. Is it me or there is an issue with his double defending. He constantly goes with help and loses own guy who supposed to cover, than we can see easy points for opposite teams. It's just annoying somethimes.
In a milion years i never think Maynor is such a garbage. This guy looks like He didn't care. 4 tournovers in 9 minutes... so what? I'll get the check anyway. What a dumba$$ got rid K.Marshall. He can't score much but He is good playmaker. In Phoenix every1 expected from him scoring more than passing. Here with so many good shooters as Beal, Ariza, Webster it doesn't count.
And once again Nene... You can't build a team with this guy. He is awesome for few games, and when team needs him most He is injuried.
Without lottery pick and those clowns on the bench i cannot see any good trades comin" Without them this team doesn't achieve PO or with huge luck will be eliminated easily by Miami in first round :/

Kanyewest · Post #302 » by **Kanyewest** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:02 pm

Tricky_Kid wrote:You cannot win anything without bigger bench. Season is long and if Witt will play first lineup close to 40 min /game it's no brainer they will end up as Beal or Kobe in year before.
Wall was good yesterday, You cannot blame him for lost. He was only guy and Ariza who really carrying this team through the game.
Booker was good also. The rest was so **** no words for that.... Esecially dissapointed by Gortat Rebounding and his defense. Is it me or there is an issue with his double defending. He constantly goes with help and loses own guy who supposed to cover, than we can see easy points for opposite teams. It's just annoying somethimes.
In a milion years i never think Maynor is such a garbage. This guy looks like He didn't care. 4 tournovers in 9 minutes... so what? I'll get the check anyway. What a dumba$$ got rid K.Marshall. He can't score much but He is good playmaker. In Phoenix every1 expected from him scoring more than passing. Here with so many good shooters as Beal, Ariza, Webster it doesn't count.
And once again Nene... You can't build a team with this guy. He is awesome for few games, and when team needs him most He is injuried.
Without lottery pick and those clowns on the bench i cannot see any good trades comin" Without them this team doesn't achieve PO or with huge luck will be eliminated easily by Miami in first round :/

I agree with the point that the Wizards should expand their bench. I was dissapointed by Gortat and Nene's rebounding.

Not sure where you see that Maynor got 4 turnovers though- he had 0 according to this box score.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400489154

pancakes3 · Post #303 » by **pancakes3** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:11 pm

Ruzious wrote:Wittman wants to blame it on not having a leader on the team (indirectly taking a shot at Wall), but this is what coaches are supposed to nip in the bud and take responsibility for when you lose.

I agree that Randy needs to take the heat but I don't see it as a shot at Wall but rather at the big men. There's not much a point guard can do about the defense no matter how talented. In fact, no perimeter players short of a Jordan/Pippen combo can whip a team into top defensive shape without a C.

Post #304 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:12 pm

tontoz wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:I usually think it's a shot sighted move to play a player the entire 2nd half. It is easy to give a player breaks - at the end of quarters (which Wittman employed effectively in the 1st half). For better or worse, the Wizards have to keep playing Maynor (if not him than someone else), because playing Wall 24 minutes in a row is not sustainable.

There is no "better" with Maynor. And Wall had 4 days off before the game and will have two days off after it. With so many regulars hurt taking Wall out would basically be forfeiting the game.

I can't blame Witt for riding Wall last night. I blame the brain dead GM. Other teams routinely get production from cheap free agents and 2nd round picks. The Bucks got 29 points from a 2nd rounder last night. The Wizards have first rounders and cheap free agents who are worthless.

These are the type of games we knew we would lose before the season started.

The Spurs have THREE backup PG's with a TS% over 58% this season - Patty Mills (and this is his 3rd straight season doing it), Cory Joseph, and Nando de Colo. All of them are getting paid under 1.5 million this season.

Tricky_Kid · Post #305 » by **Tricky_Kid** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:16 pm

Maynor had 0 tournovers in this game i spoke generally. Few games before He had 4 in 9 minutes and looks like He didn't even care....

Can u tell me what Wiz fans can see in Vesely which I can't? Effort ok but quality not at all. If U based on Wiz forums (not yesterday) without watching the games u could think He is elitte defender and player

praising some1 only for effort is ridiculous. He is at work and this is his duty cause He earns a lot of money for me too much for one dimensional player who can somethimes do a slam dunk or rebound the ball.

Post #306 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:34 pm

Tricky_Kid wrote:Maynor had 0 tournovers in this game i spoke generally. Few games before He had 4 in 9 minutes and looks like He didn't even care....

Can u tell me what Wiz fans can see in Vesely which I can't? Effort ok but quality not at all. If U based on Wiz forums (not yesterday) without watching the games u could think He is elitte defender and player praising some1 only for effort is ridiculous. He is at work and this is his duty cause He earns a lot of money for me too much for one dimensional player who can somethimes do a slam dunk or rebound the ball.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1217209 That's a 72 page thread on the subject. The title pretty much says what most of us think of him.

Earth2Ted · Post #307 » by **Earth2Ted** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:47 pm

Ruzious wrote:Yeah, this was a team (particularly the management team) loss and not any particular player's fault. The amount of blame Wall is getting for the loss is absurd. It was the first half of the game that was the biggest problem. How do you come into a game where you've had plenty of rest, have a chance to get over .500 for the first time in ages - against a badly struggling team - and come out with no sense of urgency and don't even play defense on many occasions? Wittman wants to blame it on not having a leader on the team (indirectly taking a shot at Wall), but this is what coaches are supposed to nip in the bud and take responsibility for when you lose.

That first half was just embarrassing for us in terms of lack of effort. Maybe our guys see the Miami Heat lolly gagging away first halves, and think we can flip the switch come 3rd quarter like they do- even though we don't exactly have LeBron or D-Wade.

And we're still waiting for Porter to show us something. Can't blame him for being nervous his first time out, but come on- give us SOMETHING. The first half he spent most of the time matched up against Antetokounmpo who just turned 19 last night and is supposed to be raw and not an elite athlete. Can anyone say that Otto looked better athletically or skill wise?

closg00 · Post #308 » by **closg00** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 6:55 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
closg00 wrote::lol: Brandon Night is YET another player we could have taken over Vesely. Maynor is one of the worst things to happen to Wiz fans since Ernie did _X

Brandon Knight made some big shots, but he is terrible. Cat complain about the refs when playing the Bucks but he was absolutely bailed out on some terrible drives when he was stuck. He literally would lose the ball and throw himself on the ground looking for a call. Crazy that they got that many bailouts on the road...

Yeah, can't disagree too-much, but I'd gladly take Knight over Maynor. Yeah, I'm desperate

barelyawake · Post #309 » by **barelyawake** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 7:12 pm

nate33 wrote:
barelyawake wrote:I'm with Rico. I've never seen a star take himself out of an overtime game with a minute left... Ever...

It was one defensive possession. Wall had 5 fouls. This happens all the time.

It was one defensive possession in which a stop was needed or we would lose the game. A star does not take himself out during that period.

I'm starting to truly love Wall. But, he needs a superstar to defer to and a coach that will develop his skills and decision making. He is maturing and making better decisions. And this loss is certainly not on him. He was amazing. However, we make a mistake thinking Wall is our Jordan. That's my point. This isn't the first time Wall took himself out at an Inopportune time.

That spin move in the lane was poorly planned and executed as well. And as I've mentioned before he needs to stop relying on the refs to bail him out. He needs to use fakes to get to the rim, versus only into his man's chest repeatedly. That ref whistle won't be there against the Miamis of the world.

Wall played a great game (on both ends). And the coach and GM are to blame for wearing him into the ground. But, also, Wall needs to keep developing the ability to think under pressure and when tired. Rico is right about that.

Post #310 » by **pineappleheadindc** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 7:45 pm

IMO - the game was lost in the 1st half and also the last 2 minutes, when Randy needed to call a TO and diagram a play. Should have een P-n-R with Wall and Gortat with Ariza on that side of the floor, in the corner.

Post #311 » by **nate33** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 8:11 pm

barelyawake wrote:
nate33 wrote:
barelyawake wrote:I'm with Rico. I've never seen a star take himself out of an overtime game with a minute left... Ever...

It was one defensive possession. Wall had 5 fouls. This happens all the time.

It was one defensive possession in which a stop was needed or we would lose the game. A star does not take himself out during that period.

It happens all the time. When the star is the only player on the roster capable of making things happen on offense, and when the coach knows he can't play defense because of foul trouble, and when the coach knows there will be a stoppage of play after the defensive possession, and when there's a good defensive specialist (Temple) on the bench, the coach benches the star player.

I can't believe you are making an issue out of this. It was a smart basketball decision to take Wall out for that possession. Smart basketball decisions win games, not "I'm the star" bravado. Do you realize how many people would have crucified Randy Wittman if he left Wall in the game and Wall picked up his 6th foul and was unable to play the last offensive possession?

stevemcqueen1 · Post #312 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:01 pm

John Henson was a gigantic steal for Milwaukee at 12.

barelyawake · Post #313 » by **barelyawake** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:07 pm

Nate, our "defensive specialist" was the one whom they scored against. And Mayo had five fouls and stayed out there. Wall had five fouls the entire OT. I understand your point. I entirely disagree. Wall is our defensive specialist, or should be, in clutch situations.

DCZards · Post #314 » by **DCZards** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:19 pm

nate33 wrote:
I can't believe you are making an issue out of this. It was a smart basketball decision to take Wall out for that possession. Smart basketball decisions win games, not "I'm the star" bravado. Do you realize how many people would have crucified Randy Wittman if he left Wall in the game and Wall picked up his 6th foul and was unable to play the last offensive possession?

Made perfect sense to sit Wall and replace him with Temple. Wall was tired and had five fouls and you didn't know whether you were looking at two or three overtimes so you don't want your best player fouling out in that circumstance...especially when your team is already depleted.

Plus Temple is a good defender.

kirubel94 · Post #315 » by **kirubel94** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 9:46 pm

If Wittman was indeed taking a shot at Wall, i want him fired. Seems a little harsh but putting a blame on your franchise player for single-handedly bringing your team back against a lowly Milwaukee team is just inexplicable. Yes Wall made a mistake by going under the screen on Knight to tie the game but he should get a pass for keeping his team in the game. I also thought that Wall deserved to get an ISO to end the game but instead the ball ended up to arguably the worst shooting perimeter player on the team.

dckingsfan · Post #316 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 10:21 pm

tontoz wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:I usually think it's a shot sighted move to play a player the entire 2nd half. It is easy to give a player breaks - at the end of quarters (which Wittman employed effectively in the 1st half). For better or worse, the Wizards have to keep playing Maynor (if not him than someone else), because playing Wall 24 minutes in a row is not sustainable.

There is no "better" with Maynor. And Wall had 4 days off before the game and will have two days off after it. With so many regulars hurt taking Wall out would basically be forfeiting the game.

I can't blame Witt for riding Wall last night. I blame the brain dead GM. Other teams routinely get production from cheap free agents and 2nd round picks. The Bucks got 29 points from a 2nd rounder last night. The Wizards have first rounders and cheap free agents who are worthless.

These are the type of games we knew we would lose before the season started.

I agree. This isn't on Randy, he doesn't have a capable backup PG. This isn't on Wall, he was just gassed.

This is on the poor assembly of the roster - but I guess I am beating a dead horse - EG is a lifer here.

And just to make the point:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... y=mp_per_g

pancakes3 · Post #317 » by **pancakes3** » Sat Dec 7, 2013 11:46 pm

dckingsfan wrote:And just to make the point:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... y=mp_per_g

- The wiz are the only team with 6 guys in the top 100 in mpg.
- Our 6th highest mpg guy (Webster) has played in more minutes than the leading minute-getters for 4 other teams: Lakers, Bucks, Kings, Spurs.
- The wiz have 5 guys in total minutes played despite having only played 19 games. Atlanta has played 21 games, GS has played 20 games, etc.
- Wall (8th in total minutes) is only 43 minutes behind the minutes played (total) leader Gordon Hayward despite playing in 2 fewer games. He's also the only player in the top 10 to have played in less than 20 games.
- Beal is 96th in minutes played, despite having only played in 13 games - tied with Shumpert who's played in all 18 of the Knicks game this year.

On the flip side: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... offset=100

- Out of players who have less than 10 starts, there are... 0 wizards in the top 100 in minutes played. Vesely is 122nd.
- In order of minutes played, there is exactly 1 player who ranged in the top 100 - Al Harrington at 18.2 mpg. Only 1 other team plays only 1 non-starter significant minutes like the wiz: Portland. Mo Williams gets 25mpg.
- This is a little confusing so if you sort it by ascending minutes rather than descending minutes, the Wiz have 4 guys in the BOTTOM 100 in minutes: Porter, Rice, Singleton, and Seraphin.
- 4 wizards in the bottom 100 in mpg: Maynor, Temple, Rice, and Seraphin.

We also have 6 guys in the bottom 100 in PER (Maynor, Harrington, Seraphin, Rice, Temple, Porter), tied with Charlotte (Cody Zeller, Jeff Taylor, Ben Gordon, Anthony Tolliver, Pargo, James Sutherland) and the Pelicans (Darius Miller, Lance Thomas, Josh Childress, Louis Amundson, Arinze Onuaku, and Stiemsma).

Just messing around and overblowing things but really... our bench is terrible and sometimes I like to take a step back and gain perspective on just how bad by playing around with databases and confirmation bias.

dckingsfan · Post #318 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Dec 8, 2013 12:23 am

Thanks pancakes... I forgot about the flip side of the coin... that is pretty sad.

JWizmentality · Post #319 » by **JWizmentality** » Sun Dec 8, 2013 12:57 am

We're running Wall into the ground. At this point I'm waiting for the season ending injury.

popper · Post #320 » by **popper** » Sun Dec 8, 2013 2:08 am

For the life of me I don't understand how Leonis can't see that EG is unable to assemble an NBA quality roster. I could pick any poster on this thread at random and end up with a better result over the last ten years. Hell you could throw darts at the mock draft boards and do better.