GT#47: Portland Trailblazers @ Washington Wizards 2/3 7:00PM

[tontoz]

Gortat is a decent player but i think his +/- (like Walls) is a bit inflated by the weakness of the players behind him. Among centers he ranks 32nd in PER, 27th in TS and 31st in rebound rate.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I'm with you CCJ in regards to Jan. Even when he's played well for us this season, Whitman has inexplicably benched him for game on end. Seraphin has been a similar case with Whitman. I just haven't understood the methodology to how he expects from them and his way of rewarding good play. Here's some examples for both players.

Seraphin

In late December he had back-to-back games of (in 19 minutes) 10 points (3-6 fg), 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 ast, 1 TO and (in 25 minutes) 13 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 TOs. Wizards won both an Kevin was rewarded with two consecutive DNPs. The next game he came back and (in only 11 minutes) contributed 6 points (3-4 fg), 3 rebounds in another win. In the game where his play almost brought us back for the crazy comeback against the Rockets the next game he got a DNP. Another occasion after scoring 16 points in a win versus Philly his minutes the next game dropped from 21 to 7 where the team lost.

Ves

There has been at least two stretches where the team has benefited from Jan's energy only for Whitman to bench him for long clusters of games. I don't feel like gicing all the examples but looking at Vesely's game logs paints a good picture.

All in all, I think Whitman needs to find a better way to reward these guys for playing well. He has do be able to reward the younger bigs at times in the same capacity as he slobbers over our veteran bigs.

[tontoz]

Per 36 minutes Vesely is averaging 8 points and 4.8 fouls. He shoots 25% from the foul line. You don't have to look far to find reasons not to play him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gortat is a decent player but i think his +/- (like Walls) is a bit inflated by the weakness of the players behind him. Among centers he ranks 32nd in PER, 27th in TS and 31st in rebound rate.

Then hate Wall's max deal and maybe keep Gortat's future contract in perspective.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ama01.html
Per b-r, Gortat has a PER 16 and WS/48 of .127, both above average.
Gortat is 10th in the NBA in both blocked shots and block shot percentage. He's a top-10 shot blocker.
Through six years, Gortat's similarity score most resembles Rik Smits, Tony Battie, Roy Hibbert, and Andrew Bynum.

Gortat's WS/48 is better than Nene's and his PER is virtually identical.

http://www.82games.com/1314/13WAS15.HTM
Washington is +14.6 per 100 possession better with Gortat.

I think he's a better-than-average player who is selfless.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm with you CCJ in regards to Jan. Even when he's played well for us this season, Whitman has inexplicably benched him for game on end. Seraphin has been a similar case with Whitman. I just haven't understood the methodology to how he expects from them and his way of rewarding good play. Here's some examples for both players.

Seraphin

In late December he had back-to-back games of (in 19 minutes) 10 points (3-6 fg), 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 ast, 1 TO and (in 25 minutes) 13 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 TOs. Wizards won both an Kevin was rewarded with two consecutive DNPs. The next game he came back and (in only 11 minutes) contributed 6 points (3-4 fg), 3 rebounds in another win. In the game where his play almost brought us back for the crazy comeback against the Rockets the next game he got a DNP. Another occasion after scoring 16 points in a win versus Philly his minutes the next game dropped from 21 to 7 where the team lost.

Ves

There has been at least two stretches where the team has benefited from Jan's energy only for Whitman to bench him for long clusters of games. I don't feel like gicing all the examples but looking at Vesely's game logs paints a good picture.

All in all, I think Whitman needs to find a better way to reward these guys for playing well. He has do be able to reward the younger bigs at times in the same capacity as he slobbers over our veteran bigs.

Preach!

[tontoz]

Gortat is a decent player but i think his +/- (like Walls) is a bit inflated by the weakness of the players behind him. Among centers he ranks 32nd in PER, 27th in TS and 31st in rebound rate.

Then hate Wall's max deal and maybe keep Gortat's future contract in perspective.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ama01.html
Per b-r, Gortat has a PER 16 and WS/48 of .127, both above average.
Gortat is 10th in the NBA in both blocked shots and block shot percentage. He's a top-10 shot blocker.
Through six years, Gortat's similarity score most resembles Rik Smits, Tony Battie, Roy Hibber, and Andrew Bynum.

Gortat's WS/48 is better than Nene's and his PER is virtually identical.

http://www.82games.com/1314/13WAS15.HTM
Washington is +14.6 per 100 possession better with Gortat.

I think he's a better-than=average player who is selfless.

I did hate Wall's deal (andNene's deal) but they are sunk costs. Just because they have bad deals doesn't mean we should add another.

Gortat's PER of 16 is not a good selling point since it ranks him 32nd among centers. And it isn't hard to have a good +/- with Seraphin and Vesely as backups.

[jivelikenice]

Gortat is a decent player but i think his +/- (like Walls) is a bit inflated by the weakness of the players behind him. Among centers he ranks 32nd in PER, 27th in TS and 31st in rebound rate.

To some degree, but I also think there are points in a lot of games where for small stretches he is dominant and is taking over on defensively and offensively as a passer & scorer and those swings impact the #s. It happened yesterday at the end of the 2nd/ It happened in the 3rd quarter versus OKC...During those stretches he looks like the best player on the floor, let along the team.

[jivelikenice]

I did hate Wall's deal (andNene's deal) but they are sunk costs. Just because they have bad deals doesn't mean we should add another.

You still think Wall has a bad deal?

[Ruzious]

Vesely and Temple each have a -10 +/-. When they play, they are generally the weak link. It's been for a long time at a point where I think the Wiz are just happy to survive when they're on the court. The good news is that Seraphin is +2 and looks like he can be the young 3rd big they needed. Of course, he's fooled us before. But with him and the occasions when Booker is ready, they may have 2 solid backups up front.

[tontoz]

I did hate Wall's deal (andNene's deal) but they are sunk costs. Just because they have bad deals doesn't mean we should add another.

You still think Wall has a bad deal?

He was referring to Wall's max extension. I didn't agree with it at the time it was given and still don't, but dont feel the need to harp on it.

[jivelikenice]

I wasn't saying that. I know there was plenty of debate at the time. I was just curious if that was your opinion on it now, independent on when the contract was given. Either way whats done is done so agreed, no reason to harp on it.

[tontoz]

I wasn't saying that. I know there was plenty of debate at the time. I was just curious if that was your opinion on it now, independent on when the contract was given. Either way whats done is done so agreed, no reason to harp on it.

I don't feel as bad about it now as i did then but still don't like it. My feeling is that if a guy wants a max deal then make him prove he is worth it. But we all know EG does his negotiating without pants.

[hands11]

I didn't get to see the game. I think Gortat/Vesely would be a better rebounding combination.

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Ves came in, made one good defensive play... Then proceeded to be embarassingly bad.

You know, Ves' only problem, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, is that he can't actually play basketball.

I respect you a ton, as a fellow 40-year long suffering Bullets/Wizards fan, lsbf.

I disagree about Vesely. He just doesn't excel in spot minutes before forced to play the way Wittman and teammates allow him to play. IMO Vesely is a pretty good player.

Short minutes, quick hook, two full years after he STARTED 15 straight games. The Wizards concluded on a 6-game win streak. The problem with Vesely is largely mental and discouragement IMO. That and he is not in the game long enough.

What about the game he had 3 blocks and 3 steals in very limited minutes? What about the double figure scoring games. What about the game he shot 8-8 FG. Ibaka just set a Thunder record with 12-12 FGS and got all kinds of press hype.

Vesely sucks in the mind of Wizards fans who pounce on player mistakes and very, very rarely look at the larger picture. They like Nick Young in LA. They love Blatche in Brooklyn. Jordan Crawford did well on the court in Boston and he was desired in a trade by GS. Shelvin Mack, who many thought sucked as a Wizard; is a darn sight better than Eric Maynor. Mack plays more than a very promising first round pick, Shroeder. Mack's team has a better record than the Wizards. Vesely sucks like other castoffs because this team NEVER develops player wrong. Vesely sucks just like Otto Porter, meaning he's catching fan wrath.

Jan destroyed FIBA competition, only being defeated by the FT line. Vesely was a very strong player in summer league. I KNOW the guy has a Dirk Nowitzki=form jumper because he made it a ton. I KNOW JAN CAN REBOUND. I also know which playing lineups suit him best.

I won't post game logs where his game score was good and Vesely was a net plus. I won't post 82 games that shows VEsely is way higher in +/- than Booker. I won't post the two-man synergy between Vesely and Gortat. I won't post his recent game logs.

All I will do is say I'm pretty doggone sure Vesely (and especially Gortat) is way better than given credit. I still think he's potentially a very useful NBA player (who probably can't wait to run back to be a star in Europe).

Well have to keep up the good fight until we are proven right about this CCJ.

In one the last games Ves got good minutes, I was real encouraged by the fact that Beal actually feed him in the post. And Ves converted. He could be used much better on offense if they would use him at what he does best with is cut to the basket. That's the offense that is needed from him to balance out what he can do defensively. That's were I would invest more minutes. Because Ves has upside and like Randy has done with Kevin, he isn't investing in it. Randy is to stuck on what Ves and Kevin don't do well instead of focusing on what they do well and growing them from there.

Ves can make momentum changing plays. He can score if other players look to get him the ball to finish. So what he was 0-2 last night. You don't turn from him if that happens. You feed him again and let him make it right.

Hopefully now that that are playing better and over .500, Randy learns to use Ves, Kevin and Booker better. None should go move than a game without seeing some minutes. He needs to have them all involved. All do something different. All can get better.

Hell, if it was Pops, he would give Nene a breather once in a while and lean on Ves and Kevin to challenge them. Start one of them once in a while and use Nene as a break glass in case of energy.

[hands11]

I'm with you CCJ in regards to Jan. Even when he's played well for us this season, Whitman has inexplicably benched him for game on end. Seraphin has been a similar case with Whitman. I just haven't understood the methodology to how he expects from them and his way of rewarding good play. Here's some examples for both players.

Seraphin

In late December he had back-to-back games of (in 19 minutes) 10 points (3-6 fg), 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 ast, 1 TO and (in 25 minutes) 13 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal, 3 TOs. Wizards won both an Kevin was rewarded with two consecutive DNPs. The next game he came back and (in only 11 minutes) contributed 6 points (3-4 fg), 3 rebounds in another win. In the game where his play almost brought us back for the crazy comeback against the Rockets the next game he got a DNP. Another occasion after scoring 16 points in a win versus Philly his minutes the next game dropped from 21 to 7 where the team lost.

Ves

There has been at least two stretches where the team has benefited from Jan's energy only for Whitman to bench him for long clusters of games. I don't feel like gicing all the examples but looking at Vesely's game logs paints a good picture.

All in all, I think Whitman needs to find a better way to reward these guys for playing well. He has do be able to reward the younger bigs at times in the same capacity as he slobbers over our veteran bigs.

Thats because he is fixated on Booker being the answer to every situation. Instead, I felt the opposite approach was the way to go. Don't fixate. Give each a chance to start or back up depending on match ups. And if you can't be that nimble, I would have sided with going to Ves first then leaning on Kevin for points and Booker for a blend of offensive rebounding and pts if needed. Each does what they do well. Use them that way and grow them.

[hands11]

I did hate Wall's deal (andNene's deal) but they are sunk costs. Just because they have bad deals doesn't mean we should add another.

You still think Wall has a bad deal?

It is a little on the high side so what I see as a good team construction. 12.5 to 13M is all you really want to play a PG. You need money for other things. He is making about 12-14M to much over the length of his contract. They paid a premium to build around him. Hopefully his 2nd contract they can fix that. It would be a huge mistake to go higher from here like CP3 makes. At 28 years old, they need to get Wall signed to a Tony Parker type deal.

[jivelikenice]

The argument about when we signed him was very valid and debatable. Saying what we would have liked him to sign for is irrelevant though because he would have received a max offer this offseason and would have had to match it. His next deal? We can debate that in 2018...

[DCZards]

As this season has played out, it's more and more obvious, imo, that signng Wall to a max contract during the offseason was a smart thing to do. The move told Wall that the Zards are committed to him for the long-term, freeing him up as both a player and on and off court leader. JW was likely going to be offered the max by the Zards or someone else this offseason so why play games with your franchise player when you can lock him down, put his mind at ease and let him just go out and play.

And if paying Wall the max is "overpaying" him, well it's not by much. The kid has both the potential and work ethic to come close to earning every penny of that max.

You can bet that the presence of JW will be one of the main reasons that any top free agent even considers signing with the Zards.

[tontoz]

As this season has played out, it's more and more obvious, imo, that signng Wall to a max contract during the offseason was a smart thing to do. The move told Wall that the Zards are committed to him for the long-term, freeing him up as both a player and on and off court leader. JW was likely going to be offered the max by the Zards or someone else this offseason so why play games with your franchise player when you can lock him down, put his mind at ease and let him just go out and play.

And if paying Wall the max is "overpaying" him, well it's not by much. The kid has both the potential and work ethic to come close to earning every penny of that max.

I disagree that it has been proven that it was a smart thing to do. Wall had only short periods of play where he looked like a max player and his health was a question mark. That contract could have easily blown up in their faces as big contracts so often do.

So far his play this year makes that scenario less likely. He is starting to become a competent 3 point shooter which was certainly no sure thing. And he hasn't developed a case of got-paid-itis which many guys do, slacking off after they sign a big deal. And he has been healthy. I don't see the downside in waiting a year to sign him to a big deal.

I dont get the sympathy for an athlete's state of mind about their contract. Wall was already a multi-millionaire in his early 20s. I think most people would have plenty of peace of mind in that situation.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Awesome win. I was there tonight and the crowd was really behind the Wizards. You could tell it meant a lot to everyone to get over .500. Now they have to take care of the teams below .500.

I guess the players won despite Wittman's horrible coaching yet again.

Arena noise is great, but it would be nice if the excitement resonated right through the TV screen and into my living room the way it does when I watch other teams playing at home.

Strange loud noise moment for me came when John Wall hustled after a loose ball as it made its way out of bounds and then there was a crescendo of applause. Thought to myself, 'did I miss something?'

Lastly, what section did the chants of MVP start from? Have always wondered how chants like that are orchestrated...

[dobrojim]

Great vibe at the game last night even though there was more of a POR presence
than I might have guessed...they had some group thing going last night. IDK.

Interesting to me - LMA is a fantastic player but paradoxically, he succeeds by being really
good at the worst shot in bastketball, the long 2.

POR had Batum on Wall for much of the game. At least at the end, we played Ariza
on Lillard. Lillard ended up having decent numbers but somehow we won the game.

Beal couldn't stop Matthews on the postups but we adjusted well by either subbing
in Webster or (in the 2nd half) having Beal front WM, forcing a slow lob entry that
allowed a hard 2x team to get there which ended up forcing a POR TO. Was kinda
surprised to see we held Matthews way down.

KS is getting better at passing out of double teams. One of the usually knowledgable
nearby season tix holders was complimenting KS on playing well enough to 'force' POR to
double team him. My own view is that has been how to defend KS for at least a couple
years. He can score on single player D but is awful against double teams.

My eyes may be lying to me but Temple is playing better and even making the occasional
shot. He had 3 steals in limited minutes last night. We get even longer when he subs in for
John, especially with Webster in for Beal often at the same time.

Nene has no lift. Hated the play we ran when he scored the last bucket. Thank gawd he
made the shot.

Ref number 66 sucks eggs. Is that Haywood Workman? Why do both ex-Washington player
refs hate us? Leon Wood and Haywood Workman.

Impressive to finally go over .500 by beating 2 of the best 5 teams in the league.

Stat of the game - 1 1st half TO. Something like 6 for the whole game. Awesome.