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Tracking Former Wizards 4.0

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#301 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2024 12:36 am

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
montestewart wrote:Agree that they might have gotten a better deal, and don't want the new front office to get a reputation as suckers (as I think EG had), but they also might get a reputation of being good to players, and I'm happy that apparently good guy Porzingis went straight to a champion.

I don’t doubt that KP would have likely been a good soldier if they had not traded him. OTOH, I’m sure he didn’t want to be on a rebuilding team and when the Celts deal came up the Zards FO could have hung on for a better deal but they did KP and his agent a solid by working out a deal.

That could indeed earn the FO a good rep with agents and benefit them in the future.

That’s just the point. Earning a “good reputation” never actually pays off. It’s better to be ruthless and earn a reputation as not being a pushover.

The bottom line is Porzingis on an expiring contract would have been much more valuable than Tyus on an expiring contract. It was foolish to make that trade.

Every party to a deal has the option to "be ruthless." Hence, we can't really discount the possibility that KP would have opted out.

Truth is, "ruthless" doesn't enter into it: of course, any GM wants to do well in any trade, but that has nothing to do with "ruthless." If you get the reputation for wanting to screw people, pretty soon no one will work with you on any kind of deal.

In fact, these guys all talk to each other every few days & deal with each other repeatedly. They have a huge interest in an overall sense of "fairness" -- a level playing field & a wide range of possibilities. Nor do they succeed by being ruthless. They succeed by being smart. By having good ideas about what's going to work, what goes together, etc.

On top of which, they are all colleagues as well as competitors, because of the overarching structure of the NBA as a whole. Everybody is working together on growing a huge entertainment business.

KP wanted to leave. We know that. & he had the leverage to be able to leave. We know that. 2 + 2 = 4.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#302 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:12 pm

doclinkin wrote:So effectively we traded Porzingis for Valanciunas + the Bulls' 2026 unprotected round 2 pick. Which I'm pretty much okay with.


Wait I forgot. We also traded Muscala and Gallinari for Marvin Bagley and 2nd round picks in 2025 & 2026.

So. Porzingis = Valanciunas + Marvin Bagley + 3 second round picks.

Given that the deal on the table was to trade the Zinger for Marcus Morris and 1 late first round pick (Clippers 2023) we ultimately came out okay in the deal, even getting nothing from Tyus Jones but a few choice tank losses playing next to Poole.

What will be interesting is what the team does with a player like Marvin Bagley. I noted in an article from the Athletic how capped out teams teams are overpaying players to use as living trade exceptions, since a quirk of the rules prevents teams who are above the first apron from sending out more salary in a deal than they are taking back.

Because of quirks in the new collective bargaining agreement, re-signing Achiuwa to an above-market contract, even if he couldn’t score more than a minimum salary at the moment, could give the Knicks more trade options come February’s deadline.

Because the Knicks are above the first apron, they are not allowed to acquire more salary than they send out in a trade. Thus, if they handed Achiuwa the minimum, it would limit the number of players the team could deal him for during the season. But if they gave him in the realm of $7 million in 2024-25 salary, that would open up their options.

This concept will become increasingly common in the NBA. People in front offices around the league are already referring to the intentional overpay as “the human trade exception.” The Philadelphia 76ers did it by re-signing Kenyon Martin Jr. The Phoenix Suns did it by bringing back Josh Okogie. The move will grow in popularity with teams above the first or second apron.


Seems like we are collecting players like Bagley (expiring contract), re-inking Holmes (restructured contract), giving smart deals to Valanciunas (3rd year non guaranteed), landing a Malcolm Brogdon (22m expiring) in part to cash in from teams that are hurting under new contract provisions. Even extended deals like Kuzmas declining contract should look like a decent bargain for teams that are bleeding from the new contract provisions. They can send us a ton of $ for a guy who is either off their books at the end of the year, or for a guy who will hurt less and less to keep over time.

This seems like an intentional strategy. Add young players. Surround them with useful veterans on large expiring contracts, swap those veterans out for trade capital, in exchange for taking on other big contracts. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like we have the 6th highest payroll in the league, but with the ability to flush most of it by next year. Cap room is no longer as useful as it had been, instead it benefits us by having the top of the payroll filled by expiring contracts. Check how many contracts we have that are either expiring next year or are team options.

We represent the new BOYD strategy, where we are collectors of dead deals, and can capitalize on them later by trading them out when they are soon to expire. The capped out teams just have to cross our palms with the silver of future draft picks. The Washington Reapers.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#303 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:26 pm

doclinkin wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:I didn't get any impression that Porzingis was disgruntled the way I did when he was in Dallas. I got that he appreciated Washington rehabbing his value and that he wanted to be on a winning team but I could see him waiting it out to be traded at the deadline or even playing out the year and becoming a UFA.


Porzingis had a player option. He and his agent made clear he was going to opt out of the deal and become an UFA. He stated he wanted to play for a contender so was open to a sign and trade and would opt in if so. But otherwise he was going to opt out and shop around for a team. We had no ability to retain him beyond his willingness to opt in. Given the timing of free agency that year we literally made the deal in the last hour before he was going to have to declare to opt out. And that only got done after a deal fell through with the Clippers for Brogdon where we would have gotten a package of picks.

We could have played hardball, but we probably would have lost Porzingis for nothing since it was evident he was willing to risk playing for less money to go to a contender. He was willing to test the market. We can say only Detroit would have had the money, but at the point where he opted out that money was his to lose, zero chance he would later circle back to us to play for less money than he opted out from AND for a losing team. Made sense to retain positive player relations and any kind of return on the investment.

Given that the front office was on the job for about a week at that point, I think they did okay in getting anything for Porzingis. I think they hoped to retain Tyus on a sign and trade, but the Brodgon + Bub deal, and the 15 win season with Tyus + Poole, meant that was unlikely.

Spilt milk. So far after all the trades we ended up with one year of Tyus plus the 35th pick in 2023 which we traded for the Bulls' 26 + 27 2nd round picks. We ended up trading the 2027 pick (31-50 protected) to New Orleans in the Valanciunas trade.

So effectively we traded Porzingis for Valanciunas + the Bulls' 2026 unprotected round 2 pick. Which I'm pretty much okay with.

Missed this post by doc -- clear, concise, accurate, & incontrovertible -- the KP trade was the best Will could do with the dirty laundry he was handed. Period.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#304 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:
doclinkin wrote:So effectively we traded Porzingis for Valanciunas + the Bulls' 2026 unprotected round 2 pick. Which I'm pretty much okay with.


Wait I forgot. We also traded Muscala and Gallinari for Marvin Bagley and 2nd round picks in 2025 & 2026.

So. Porzingis = Valanciunas + Marvin Bagley + 3 second round picks.

Given that the deal on the table was to trade the Zinger for Marcus Morris and a late first round pick (Clippers 2023 IIRC) we ultimately came out okay in the deal, even getting nothing from Tyus Jones but a few choice tank losses playing next to Poole.

What will be interesting is what the team does with a player like Marvin Bagley. I noted in an article from the Athletichow capped out teams teams are overpaying players to use as living trade exceptions, since a quirk of the rules prevents teams who are above the first apron from sending out more salary in a deal than they are taking back.

Because of quirks in the new collective bargaining agreement, re-signing Achiuwa to an above-market contract, even if he couldn’t score more than a minimum salary at the moment, could give the Knicks more trade options come February’s deadline.

Because the Knicks are above the first apron, they are not allowed to acquire more salary than they send out in a trade. Thus, if they handed Achiuwa the minimum, it would limit the number of players the team could deal him for during the season. But if they gave him in the realm of $7 million in 2024-25 salary, that would open up their options.

This concept will become increasingly common in the NBA. People in front offices around the league are already referring to the intentional overpay as “the human trade exception.” The Philadelphia 76ers did it by re-signing Kenyon Martin Jr. The Phoenix Suns did it by bringing back Josh Okogie. The move will grow in popularity with teams above the first or second apron.


Seems like we are collecting players like Bagley (expiring contract), re-inking Holmes (restructured contract), giving smart deals to Valanciunas (3rd year non guaranteed), landing a Malcolm Brogdon in part to cash in from teams that are hurting under new contract provisions. Even extended deals like Kuzmas declining contract should like a decent bargain for teams that are bleeding from the new contract provisions.

This seems like an intentional strategy. Add young players. Surround them with useful veterans on large expiring contracts, swap those veterans out for trade capital, in exchange for taking on other big contracts. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like we have the 6th highest payroll in the league, but with the ability to flush most of it by next year. Cap room is no longer as useful as it had been, instead it benefits us by having the top of the payroll filled by expiring contracts. Check how many contracts we have that are either expiring next year or are team options.

We represent the new BOYD strategy, where we are collectors of dead deals, and can capitalize on them later by trading them out when they are soon to expire. The capped out teams just have to cross our palms with the silver of future draft picks. The Washington Reapers.

Well done doc!!!
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#305 » by montestewart » Wed Jul 31, 2024 4:56 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#306 » by closg00 » Fri Aug 2, 2024 10:45 am

Calf injury…supposedly
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#307 » by payitforward » Sat Aug 10, 2024 1:27 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#308 » by AFM » Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:21 pm

Not exactly breaking news, but from the wiretap:

Tyus Jones Took Less Money From Suns To Start For A Contender
Aug 20, 2024 9:36 AM

Tyus Jones Took Less Money From Suns To Start For A Contender
When he decided to sign with the Phoenix Suns, Tyus Jones took less money than was offered elsewhere. Jones ultimately decided that the opportunity to start for a contender was worth more than cashing in as a free agent.

The New York Knicks had made Jones a two-year, $10 million offer. He also had at least one other offer that was far larger than the Knicks proposal. Jones and his former team, the Washington Wizards, had also discussed sign-and-trade scenarios. The veteran point guard and the Wizards also had conversations about him signing a deal and being traded by the 2025 trade deadline. All of these scenarios would have seen Jones making more than the veteran minimum contract he has with Phoenix.

Jones is expected to start for the Suns, who are retooling after starting much of last season without a traditional point guard. Phoenix is expected to start Jones alongside Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Bradley Beal and Jusuf Nurkic.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#309 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 20, 2024 10:25 pm

Right. Hard to blame the front office for failing to trade him when he ends up taking less than the market offered. He would have cashed in best off a S&T, but chose the opportunity over the cash and bet on himself to make it pay. Good on him, I'd say I hope it works, except that we own PHX's picks and swaps so you know, their pain is our profit.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#310 » by Kanyewest » Wed Aug 21, 2024 5:12 am

Gilbert gives his thoughts on true shooting percentage - maybe he used to read posts here. https://www.youtube.com/live/_hsa0MsMwnw?si=ktqAmh5HPpmFz308&t=8870
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#311 » by closg00 » Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:29 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#312 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 3, 2024 8:57 pm

Jordan Goodwin, who played 1000 minutes for Phoenix & Memphis last year, after playing 1000+ minutes for us the year before, has been able to garner no more than a camp invite this year. -- with the Lakers.

Guy does absolutely everything well except hit the three. Even with that problem, his overall career numbers are excellent. I don't understand why he doesn't have a guaranteed, multi-year contract at a reasonably low cost.

Not with us -- he makes no sense for us. But, IMO, he'd be a solid bench player for a good team.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#313 » by closg00 » Wed Sep 4, 2024 6:25 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#314 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 4, 2024 7:21 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#315 » by closg00 » Wed Sep 4, 2024 7:34 pm



The guy is a walking miracle, JAG who is always around, should be the end of the road for him now.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#316 » by payitforward » Sun Sep 8, 2024 7:59 pm

I don't think so. I think it's more likely the Warriors sign him.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#317 » by Kanyewest » Sun Sep 8, 2024 8:13 pm

Yeah maybe his 3 point percentage rises a bit if he plays with more talent like he did with the Wolves.
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#318 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 11, 2024 8:36 pm

Looks like that's not happening....
Junior's NBA career might be over.

Assuming he's been well advised over the years, poor kid probably has no more than $10-30m in his porftolio.... Tragic!
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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#319 » by AFM » Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:28 pm

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Re: Tracking Former Wizards 4.0 

Post#320 » by closg00 » Tue Oct 8, 2024 8:29 pm

:lol:
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